InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "yummmmm tuna melts..."

volksjager (volksjager) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-06-19 14:40:00

Current music:	Fear Antenna "because my heart is bitter and it is my heart"
Entry tags:	char: baron blood/john falsworth, char: captain america/steve rogers, char: union jack/joseph chapman, group: invaders, publisher: marvel comics

Cap vs. Baron Blood
It's cool to see Baron Blood again n Captain Brtain. Here's is one from Captain Amercia. BB is back and he wants to drink the blood of the original Union Jack.

(Read comments) - (Post a new comment)

	jcbaggee 2009-06-19 02:04 pm UTC (link)
	Cap killing Baron Blood could've easily been a "Perfect Moment" entry. Remember kids, Cap's a soldier, and soldiers kill when they have no alternative...they just don't necessarily like it. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	volksjager 2009-06-19 02:11 pm UTC (link)
	True. Wish I had thought of that. :) (Reply to this) (Parent)

	colonel_green 2009-06-19 02:15 pm UTC (link)
	I dislike all the moral agonizing in that case; he's a Nazi vampire, not a person. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	volksjager 2009-06-19 02:17 pm UTC (link)
	Part of that I think s due to other factors in the story. Cap had just came off a mild re-boot of his orign and old memories came flooding back. Ths was his frst post war re-union with the Invaders :) (Reply to this) (Parent)

janegray
2009-06-19 03:48 pm UTC (link)

I actually like the moral agonizing, because it shows that Cap is not a hypocrite.

I'm sick to death of mass-murdering, torture-happy villains who are always spared by the heroes, even at the cost of endangering countless innocents, because "they are still human! You can't kill a human being!" While apparently it's perfectly A-ok to kill far less despicable and dangerous villains who just happen not to be human. I loathe the "What Measure Is A Non Human" trope.

So, if Cap is going to do everything he can to avoid killing, say, Kang the Conqueror, then I appreciate that he has the coherence to treat non-human villains the same way.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	colonel_green 2009-06-19 03:58 pm UTC (link)
	You might have a point with aliens, but vampires are magical beings without souls who exist solely to kill others and feed. They're less than human, purely monsters; that's the whole point of them (though obviously this gets confused when you get more Interview with a Vampire-style depictions cooexisting with other ones). (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	daningram 2009-06-19 04:13 pm UTC (link)
	That's just Buffy though. In Marvel, there's no indication that there's a loss of soul occuring, or that they're automatically evilfied. It's just that most, for whatever reason, don't fight the cravings for blood, Frank Drake and the second Baron Blood (Dr. Strange's brother) being the exceptions. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	stolisomancer 2009-06-19 04:20 pm UTC (link)
	Hannibal King, actually. I don't think Frank Drake ever got bit, although I could be wrong. (Reply to this) (Parent)

janegray
2009-06-19 04:23 pm UTC (link)

Even if that were true (the original vampires in Dracula may be soulless monsters who exist solely to kill, but that's not the case in most modern portrayals of vampires), I still think that doesn't make them any more dangerous and despicable than the Joker, Black Mask, Bullseye, and many other human villains.

For the record, I'm all for killing them all (starting from Bullseye). It's just the double standard that pisses me off.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

tavella
2009-06-19 06:35 pm UTC (link)

Ditto. I especially despise when people go "well, it's a clone, so it's okay! It's sentient android, so it's okay! It's an alien, so it's okay!" I recall seeing someone at the old s_d defending the nazi doctor in the initiative, because the MIAs were "only clones", so it was fine if he experimented on, mind controlled, or killed them.

I am no more inherently worthwhile as a human than the Vision would be, or Skrull, or a Kree, or the clones.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

janegray
2009-06-20 07:12 am UTC (link)

The clone thing in particular pisses me off like there is no tomorrow, because it actually has a correspondence in real life.

People with identical DNA actually exist: they are called "monozygotic twins". Go tell one of such twins that it's ok if their sibling dies because the sibling is just a copy. Go, I dare you.

Conversely, I find it incredibly frustrating when people talk of "making somebody/something immortal" by cloning them after their death to "bring them back to life". NO. A clone is not the same being brought back to life, it's a different being that just so happens to have the same DNA as the original. The original is still very much dead.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	tavella 2009-06-20 08:50 am UTC (link)
	Yes, precisely! I am just boggled that people don't understand that we have naturally occurring clones and that they are very much individuals not duplicates without rights. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	joysweeper 2009-06-20 08:24 am UTC (link)
	THIS. Gaaaaah. If it's sentient, it's not okay! (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

tavella
2009-06-20 08:57 am UTC (link)

Yah. I stopped even bothering to skim New Avengers in the store when they slaughtered helpless and confused Skrull who had thought they were their friends, without hesitation or regret. Because hey, not human. Followed up by my brief interest in War of Kings dying completely when they committed genocide on *fleeing* Skrull and we were supposed to see it as a glorious triumph and admire how badass the Inhumans were.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	lonewolf23k 2009-06-19 09:48 pm UTC (link)
	I think Spitfire would object to being labled soulless and nothing but a pure monster without humanity. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	colonel_green 2009-06-20 07:36 am UTC (link)
	Spitfire isn't a pure vampire, she's...well, some kind of hybrid, Cornell's never laid out the specifics. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	greenmask 2009-06-20 04:17 pm UTC (link)
	Not so! Marvel-Dracula himself loves, agonizes and has extremely complex thoughts and feelings. His series ends with on a note that emphasizes the fact that he isn't just a soulless magical vessel. (Reply to this) (Parent)

jlroberson
2009-06-20 01:34 am UTC (link)

This is one reason I liked the Authority back in the early days, under Ellis & then Millar. They didn't even blink when disposing of genocidal madmen. And in the Golden Age, superheroes had no trouble killing villains or sending them to their deaths. Really, the only reason villains were ever spared in comics was a reason that goes back to the resurrection of Sherlock Holmes: because the companies wanted to use them again. So either villains are spared, or die like the Joker or Doom, in such a way that they can be said later not to have died.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	joysweeper 2009-06-20 08:27 am UTC (link)
	Motto. I don't like "heroes" for whom killing is the first or second resort, I like it when heroes don't believe themselves to be the incarnation of Justice and thus execution is for the courts to decide, but c'mon, treat nonhumans the same way. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	espanolbot 2009-06-20 06:08 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, Nazis are between zombies and robots in the guilt-free murdering stakes, the vampire bit just makes it even more so. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	proteus_lives 2009-06-19 05:57 pm UTC (link)
	Very true. Cap knows when to go hardcore. (Reply to this) (Parent)

(Read comments) -