InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "You will all become my slaves"

kagome654 (kagome654) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-06-16 14:23:00

Current mood:	cheerful
Entry tags:	char: green arrow/oliver queen, char: green lantern/hal jordan, char: green lantern/john stewart, char: superman/clark kent, creator: christopher priest/james owsley, creator: tod smith

The List (Aka: Hal Jordan has no friends)
A while ago I posted Neil Gaiman's 'Green Lantern/Superman: Legend of the Green Flame'. I prefaced the entry by saying it was a continuation of sorts of an older story known as 'The List' (published in Action Comics Weekly #606). I've finally decided to post part of that story, which depicts a surprisingly vulnerable Hal Jordan and (even more surprising) an uncharacteristically rude Alfred Pennyworth.

First, a little background-
Hal Jordan has just returned from space. He's recently been held captive in another galaxy, is on the outs with his girlfriend, is homeless (his apartment having been destroyed), jobless, directionless and totally miserable. To make matters worse people on Earth seem to be afraid of him.

He decides to contact John. Unfortunately as bad as Hal's life is at the moment...well, poor John's is ten times worse.

I think it was emotionally mature for Hal to realize that he needs support and advice. He could have just as easily decided that he needs to work out his problems alone...which would have lead to a lot of ineffectual angst.

I'm a little less impressed by his lack of judgment when it comes to determining who would be the best to talk to about such things. If you're looking for emotional support and guidance Wayne Manor should NOT be your first stop....

Believe it or not, Bruce let him down easily compared to some...

One of the sequels to this story involved him talking to Dinah about his problems. Apparently someone finally remembered they were actually fairly good friends (which makes his treatment of her in 'Cry for Justice' all the more irritating) and it, unsurprisingly, went a lot better than this. Unfortunately I don't have that issue, so I can't post anything from it.

So, we're off to see everyone's favorite archer (Haha...ha).

...Ouch. Someone remind me why these two are friends again?

Anyway, I really liked this story. I don't mind Johns' characterization of Hal as much as some, but he does seem to have a limited emotional range. He always seems to be either full of righteous indignation, talking like a quippy action hero, or angsting in a very macho sort of way that seems oddly shallow. I miss the occasionally goofy Hal, the who is not embarrassed to be a little vulnerable and emotional and can (and has!) 'weep/ed openly and without shame.'

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jlroberson
2009-06-16 07:31 pm UTC (link)

Because Hal, post-Crisis, was an embarrassing problem for DC to solve. At that time(and I'd include myself back then), there was not the nostalgia for the Silver Age that fills Johns and others. Quite the opposite--MAN OF STEEL was emblematic in its resolute anti-nostalgia.(Lois' snickering reaction to Metallo's name in that is probably the best single distillation of that) Instead, the remnants of the SA--starting with Barry Allen, but a lot of the Crisis was bent on targeting them particularly(consider: we start with Earth-3)--were dated embarrassments inappropriate to the modern and dark 80s.

So Hal had the bad luck to have not died in the Crisis. So they had to darken him. That's when we got alkie Hal. This is around then. Consider that so many of these are treating Hal like an embarrassment; this is a reflection of the editors' view, and also the fans. At the time we LIKED watching these perfect and upright characters degraded. You have to understand, back then they were pompous and had been a long time, and the truth is that the retcons of late are more interesting and better-written than the stories they're trying to recall & restore were. NOW we like the traditional versions, but only because we got so sick of the dark.

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	kagome654 2009-06-16 11:05 pm UTC (link)
	Thank you for that, I started reading comics at the tail end of the 'grim and gritty' era, so I'm not all that familiar with the 80's zeitgeist and have some difficulty putting it all in perspective. It does make a lot more sense in that context. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

jlroberson
2009-06-17 01:06 am UTC (link)

You're welcome!

A further and less kind view would be that Dc at the time wanted to butch up their heroes. BRAT PACK and a lot of other stuff at the time focused on the gay underpinnings of characters like this in a way that, nowadays, would definitely be considered homophobic. Which was part of a general conversation in comics that began then concerning the sexual undepinnings of superheroes, that has evolved in our time to the wonderfully advanced "context is for the weak" tag.

I thought Pat Mills dealt with this issue much more intelligently in MARSHAL LAW than Rick Veitch did in BP--I'm sorry, but I do think the Midnight Mink is a repulsive character born of Wertham's worst wet dreams, that's more meant as a crude, ugly caricature of gay men(really, more child molesters--I wondered, reading it, if Rick knows the difference) than Batman. Whereas Mills' Batman analogue didn't molest his sidekicks, he harvested them for spare parts, which is much more to the satirical point, never mind that it's not homophobic and still holds up.

Point is, there was a lot of that, and god knows comics boys can be sensitive about that. So, DC, I'll just say it, felt that compared to Marvel their characters that had underpinnings to a quainter and sillier era seemed kind of "gay." Look at a lot of the "darkening" changes after the Crisis in that light and see if a lot of it isn't really based in that general sense. They wanted their characters tougher. So Superman's--well, almost everything, or Hal's ass? Problem number one. (Consider which white GL WAS popular then, Guy Gardner, the Red State Lantern if there ever was one) Also the bare-chested guy wearing wings. And so forth.

And when they did try a gay character? He had to be so flaming he might as well have his name be "Gay Man." Oh wait, they did. Extrano.

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kagome654
2009-06-18 08:57 am UTC (link)

Hm, I never really considered Guy's elevated status at the time in that way, probably because he came so close to caricature that I figured he was meant to be a negative representative of that line of thinking. It's interesting the way the pendulum swings, especially when you consider that the movie properties are likely to become darker after the success of the The Dark Knight. Or maybe it'll be limited to the Batman franchise.

I only know of Extrano through his infamous reputation. I think I'll consider myself lucky.

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	jlroberson 2009-06-18 09:51 am UTC (link)
	Wait, it gets worse: Englehart created him. And I'm sure meant well. Which makes it even worse. The character is only a slightly less offensive stereotype than the Golliwog. Though I might be a bit hard on his name. It's not an atypical DC sort of name for anything "exotic," with names like "Apache Chief." (Reply to this) (Parent)

	His Power? Being Fabulous! jlroberson 2009-06-18 09:56 am UTC (link)
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