InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "edit style"

mysteryfan (mysteryfan) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-06-05 18:59:00

Entry tags:

creator: frank miller, creator: jim lee, title: all-star batman and robin

Black Canary and Batman

Leaving out a lot here, including the part where she finally loses it.

Guess which man?

And then she steals everybody's money and feeds one of the most obnoxious guys his wedding ring.

(Above from issue #3)
So Black Canary and Batman parallel each other in ~~a lot of ways~~ their, as Batman says, "Ruthlessness." Also, he just fed a mugger his own teeth.

(Above from #6)

(# 7)
These issues are collected in All-Star Batman and Robin, Vol 1.

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	psychop_rex 2009-06-06 05:04 pm UTC (link)
	No, but that's why this version of Bruce would be so effective as an identity, you see - NOBODY would ever connect him with Batman. Furthermore, if he's channeling all his people skills into Bruce, then his complete hopelessness in that arena as Batman would actually make sense. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

mysteryfan
2009-06-06 05:41 pm UTC (link)

Furthermore, if he's channeling all his people skills into Bruce, then his complete hopelessness in that arena as Batman would actually make sense.

No, I don't buy that. He can't succeed as Batman without using some people skills. With Dick and Alfred and Hal and Superman. His inability to deal appropriately with, for example, Dick shows me he's absolutely clueless about people. He'd be a better crimefighter if he adopted some people skills. If they were in him, he'd use them. He could still go all crazy with the criminals.

Also, a lot of his actions and inner monologue, which has to be the real him, show a very immature, stunted man with an emotional age of nine or ten.

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psychop_rex
2009-06-06 06:06 pm UTC (link)

Considering that he KIDNAPPED Dick and locked him in the Batcave to feed on rats, one could argue that he deals with him solely as Batman. And as for the 'emotional age of nine or ten' thing, I think that's true to some degree of the normal Batman, too - he definitely has issues in that area. The thing is, the regular Batman has managed to balance things out a bit more, whereas the Goddamn Batman is skewed way over to one side or the other.

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mysteryfan
2009-06-06 06:12 pm UTC (link)

I get what you're saying about GDBatman only dealing with Dick as Batman, but you've seen the stuff where he's trying to impress Dick with his stuff, right? He's consistently presented as less socially and emotionally adept than DickGraysonAge12. In my opinion.

I think that's true to some degree of the normal Batman, too

Agreed. I think it's because of his trauma and that what Miller did with that emotional age thing is just carry it farther.

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psychop_rex
2009-06-06 07:19 pm UTC (link)

In which persona is he trying to impress Dick? If it's the bit where they're in the Batmobile and he's going 'hey! Look at this cool toy of mine!', that would count as Batman, not Wayne. If not, then no, I haven't seen it - but I would point out that the Wayne persona is largely an act put on for society. Robin knows that he's Batman, so he'd be Batman all the time for him, regardless of whether or not he was wearing the suit.

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mysteryfan
2009-06-06 09:41 pm UTC (link)

Yes, that's what I'm talking about, and he is Batman there. But my thought is that if he was capable of exceptional social skills as Bruce, he'd have to be smart enough to realize that those same skills would help him out in his real role, as crimefighter.

Kind of like if the current canon Brucie persona was also exaggerated the way the GD Batman is exaggerated.

Personally, from reading this series, I can't see him as emotionally older than ten or so, in either persona. He takes Vicki to the circus. The circus. After asking Alfred to ~~pass her a note in gym class~~ call her for a date.

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	psychop_rex 2009-06-06 09:50 pm UTC (link)
	Hey, I go to the circus, and I'm older than ten! Circuses are awesome, provided they're good ones - Vicki should feel lucky. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	mysteryfan 2009-06-06 09:52 pm UTC (link)
	Heh. But Bruce does it for a first date. That his mom sets up for him. In a limo. To get creepy about an acrobat. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

psychop_rex
2009-06-07 01:26 am UTC (link)

Keep in mind that Bruce doesn't actually CARE about any of these dates - he only goes out on them to provide credence to his image of 'Bruce Wayne, Millionaire Playboy'. You can't very well be a millionaire playboy if you don't PLAY, right? So it's perfectly in keeping with his character that Alfred sets up the dates - his job is just to go out and act suave. I'm pretty sure Alfred has done the same thing more than once in the regular DCU.

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mysteryfan
2009-06-07 07:09 am UTC (link)

Well that's not very suave and sophisticated. To have his mom call for dates. If we mean, does Bruce just sit there and LOOK suave, yes. I can buy that. Act suave? I don't see any reason to think he does.

And guess what: So we're having this big discussion about who Bruce Wayne is supposed to be in ASBAR, which is ... moderately amusing enough. AND I started thinking about the actual evidence in ASBAR re: Bruce Wayne?

He's in four panels. Watching a circus act and creepily obsessing about a 12-year-old.

Heh. Not a lot to go on, evidence wise. I think the reader has to decide for him or herself.

So there's not really much evidence to go on, but I still think he's not suave and sophisticated at all. In this version, I'm pretty sure we're supposed to believe Batman is the real, Bruce is the mask. I don't always agree with that, but it depends on the writer, and I think it's the way Miller wants us to see it.

So the character's big, important focus is crimefighting. If he had the social skills as Bruce, he'd have to realize that those same social skills would make his work as Batman more effective. Not necessarily with criminals, but with peers.

I do agree that it would be a good cover if he WAS Goddamn Batman/Suave and Sophisticated Bruce, but I don't buy it. I mean, he is all clean-shaven and he dresses nicely, but he's not demonstrated he's any better at people than Batman. All we've seen of him as Bruce, actually, is the circus scene. Where he's quite creepy and clueless about his creepiness.

So anyway, I still think he's terribly immature, even as Bruce in this series, and that THAT is a whole part of his schtick as a character. That, theoretically, the book was going to show us the character arc of Bruce/Batman growing up and becoming humanized. I just also--when I was looking for Bruce Wayne in the title, refound the page where Alfred talks about how Bruce became a monster the night his parents died.

I wonder if we'll ever know what Miller really intended to show us.

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	psychop_rex 2009-06-07 03:43 pm UTC (link)
	Well, the book's still ongoing, right? I didn't hear anything about it being cancelled. Maybe there'll be more stuff about Wayne in the future. (Reply to this) (Parent)

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