InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "Hell yeah"

peur_evol (peur_evol) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-04-18 00:34:00

Entry tags:

char: question/vic sage, creator: alex toth, creator: michael uslan, creator: roger stern, publisher: charlton

I Have A Quick QUESTION........

Alex Toth may be an acquired taste for some of the newer comics readers. Steeped in the "old school" of comics and cartooning, he was a firm supporter of drawing from life.

I just have to comment here on the "splash" panel. Look at the building in the upper left background, notice how he uses just black and white to delineate it. No wasted details.

Panels 3,4,5,6: Laid out just like a Hollywood storyboard. Camera zooms in and out naturally and doesn't detract/distract from the dialogue.

Fight scene with no wasted panels; a lesser artist would stretch this out for several pages thinking that more details make a better impact.

I'm not so pleased with the "breaking glass" effect, but it doesn't seem to affect the overall story flow.

Once again applying the "less is more" principle. If this were a modern comic, the artists would rely upon photoshop effects to convey a smoke-filled room.

Last panel: Even tho' the Question's trenchcoat appears to be several sizes too big, it still seems to work in terms of overall visual effect. Vic Sage is pissed and he's not going to take it lying down. The oversized coat seems to make him appear larger and more formiddable.

This whole layout just makes me wonder why anyone uses more than six panels per page.

So, there you have it. Alex Toth at the top of his game. Am I the only one who thinks that this is freakin' awesome?

from CHARLTON BULLSEYE #5, July 1976
reprinted in
ACTION HEROES ARCHIVE #2

(Post a new comment)

	thehefner.livejournal.com 2009-04-18 12:52 am UTC (link)
	Whoa whoa whoa. Who the hell doesn't like Toth?! That opening splash page has always been the definitive Question illustration, IMO. I love Renee, but man, I miss Vic. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	volksjager 2009-04-18 01:03 am UTC (link)
	Truly. I have noticed a few of the old reprints DC did after getting the rights up on Ebay.People should get them. You've really never seen the Question in his glory. He was more Vic Sage , than the Question. feirce investigative reproter who took down the scumbags. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	box_in_the_box 2009-04-18 08:47 pm UTC (link)
	Seriously, I wasn't aware of ANYONE who disliked Toth. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	darklorelei 2009-04-18 01:02 am UTC (link)
	Awesome. (And I, for one, very much appreciate kickass art in straightforward layouts as opposed to all those fancily-shaped panels running around these days.) (Reply to this)

	magus_69 2009-04-18 01:14 am UTC (link)
	There are people who don't like Alex Toth? Come on. Isn't it a little late for an April Fool's joke? (Reply to this)

	zhinxy 2009-04-18 03:34 am UTC (link)
	Alex Toth exists in a realm of sheer awesome, beyond our understanding. To speak of "like" or "dislike" is the clanging of cymbals or the antics of the six mythical dragons. ;) (Reply to this) (Thread)

	icon_uk 2009-04-18 04:46 am UTC (link)
	This! So very very this! (Reply to this) (Parent)

	kingrockwell 2009-04-18 05:51 am UTC (link)
	Alex Toth! Yay! Vic Sage! Super Yay! Toth himself was kind of a crochety old recluse, but he was always a great artist. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	scottyquick 2009-04-18 02:40 pm UTC (link)
	I know, right? This is like, my nerd wet dream. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	perletwo 2009-04-18 08:36 am UTC (link)
	Oooo. I confess I had missed Alex Toth in my comix education. In some places this reminds me of later Keith Giffen art: the layouts, the use of shadows, the profiles. (I'd link some examples if not for the Great Disaster, but meh.) (Reply to this) (Thread)

	buttler 2009-04-18 10:02 am UTC (link)
	You're probably familiar with some of his design work for Hanna-Barbera, tho. He came up with the look of Space Ghost, Birdman, Herculoids, Super Friends, etc. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	perletwo 2009-04-18 08:19 pm UTC (link)
	Space Ghost! I bet that's where I know his stuff from. Ahhh, childhood... (Reply to this) (Parent)

	lonewolf23k 2009-04-18 02:00 pm UTC (link)
	God, could you bring back Alex Toth? ...Maybe take Greg Land in his place? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	psycheluna 2009-04-20 09:08 am UTC (link)
	Yes yes yes yes yes. A million times yes. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	mwisse 2009-04-18 02:00 pm UTC (link)
	Anybody who doesn't like Alex Toth doesn't love comics. It's such a shame though that the stories he worked on only rarely matched the quality of his artwork. (Reply to this)

	hyperactivator 2009-04-18 03:35 pm UTC (link)
	So this is what Awsomesauce tasts like. (Reply to this)

	surlytmpl 2009-04-18 04:25 pm UTC (link)
	"The weed of crime bears bitter fruit" needs to be resurrected as a catchphrase. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	perletwo 2009-04-18 08:19 pm UTC (link)
	I desperately want a .wav of Jeffrey Combs reading the line as Question. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	box_in_the_box 2009-04-18 08:53 pm UTC (link)
	Hell, I want Combs playing Vic Sage in LIVE-ACTION. (Reply to this) (Parent)

aaron_bourque
2009-04-18 04:45 pm UTC (link)

I can never get enough Alex Toth. Especially in b&w.

"I'm rewriting this for the umpteenth time, in different ways, yet saying the same thing--that the party's over, kiddies! Since I was born in 1928--and was old enough to applaud the first comic books in the early and mid 1930's, I've witnessed the best and worst of the form from then to now--I loved the medium of the comic book as I did the syndicated comic strip in its countless forms, subjects, treatments--in my time, now in the autumn or winter of my life, my eyes have seen the bad drive out the good, the terminal deterioration and all-but-lost-dead adventure strip--and the fun and magic and delicious innocence and surprises in the comic book--which, unless room is made for such again, will not, cannot, should not survive.

"The ugly, mean, vile, banal, twisted, sick, bloody celebration of torture, rape, cruelty, filth, demonic and sociopolitical psycho-babble--and death--is disgusting stuff to me--and it's out youngest writers/cartoonists/editors cranking out this garbage! Which is sub-anti-human drek, devoid of original thought or of moral, ethical values--it is hopeless fatalism, nihilism, anarchy, pointyheaded anti-everything gibberish--and most of it dares to label itself "adult--for mature readers"--etc., etc.--which is nonsense!

"Much more 'adult and mature' are the stories no one can, or will, write and illustrate about: joy, wonder, love, honor, romance, adventure, delight, ethics, morality, spirituality, humor, wit, intelligence, invention, compassion, trust, respect, duty, character, sacrifice, sentiment, family, discovery, exploration, history, the myriad people, customs, and stories abounding out there in the world--human stories!

"It's just too easy and predictable to grind out incessant repititions of the doom and gloom, post-armageddon bilge, garbage, anti- and non-heroic bumbling 'heroes,' to feed the sickness of its own making--damn how well it may be written or drawn! It's garbage! Created by the young for the younger and youngest readers--who, for 20 years of it, almost two generations now--keep buying it! It's beyond me! I fear for out future--if we're to have one?--if such is "entertainments" for out fathers and leaders of tomorrow! What might their offspring be like, then, I wonder.

"Nope, sorry--I see no future for us, for them, for comics, tv, movies, etc., unless we kick 'sick,' and give kids back their childhood years of innocence, hope, faith, joy, wonder, morals, morale, just plain good clean fun--the 'sick kick' plagues comics everywhere, east to west, from Japan to England to Europe to here--(I don't know about our southern Latin neighbors)--we've had enough of desolation of spirit and shock to our senses. The comic book is, in the hands of today's worst practicioners and prosylitizers of this mind-set, committing suicide! And murder! Of its traditions, roots!

"It cannot stand--

"As it is, it should not!

"A pox on it, and those who uglify children's minds and senses and expectations with their miasmic miserable muck and mayhem!

"And the pale horses they rode in on!

"'Cursed be the fool who destroys wonder.'

"Remember?

"I do . . .

"Alex Toth '91"

Alex Toth remains awesome.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	darklorelei 2009-04-18 05:15 pm UTC (link)
	Awesome. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	box_in_the_box 2009-04-18 08:50 pm UTC (link)
	No wonder he's able to channel Ditko's spirit of the Question so well here. Not that I disagree with Toth's screed. :) (Reply to this) (Parent)

	halloweenjack 2009-04-20 04:34 pm UTC (link)
	I was gonna say, "If anyone can follow Ditko on art..." Forget that qualification. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	vignettelante 2009-04-18 07:59 pm UTC (link)
	"Not until the courts close the loopholes in prosecution and plea-bargaining laws, will Americans be safe from punks like you--!" That came out of no where. It gave me a good laugh though. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	box_in_the_box 2009-04-18 08:53 pm UTC (link)
	Not really, at least within the context of the character, because until Denny O'Neil pretty much ruined Vic Sage post-Crisis (I like most of Denny's stuff, but his take on Vic was just plain wrong), the Question was always a soapbox for Steve Ditko's (and, it would seem, Alex Toth's) Objectivist leanings. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

psychop_rex
2009-04-19 12:12 am UTC (link)

I wouldn't say he ruined him - he just gave us another take on him. The Batman of the '50's is completely different from the Batman of today, yet they're both the same character - the same is true here. Denny's Vic Sage is the same one that Ditko created, he's just had a change of attitude - and let's face it, Ditko's Sage is a mean son of a bitch, designed primarily to provide an outlet for his creator's political views. That's fine for single-issue stories, when the point is basically to provide a quick hit of action and adventure and then leave, but it'd be a little difficult to pull off an extended story arc with a character like that - he's just not very relatable. He needed a change in order to transition into the modern world - and I think O'Neil did that very successfully.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

box_in_the_box
2009-04-19 12:18 am UTC (link)

See, what's funny is, I don't even AGREE with Ditko's objectivist views, but I still think O'Neil did the wrong thing by changing them. If anything, having such an uncompromising protagonist can create even MORE ongoing drama, if you address and explore their beliefs, and how those beliefs fuck with their lives - indeed, McDuffie did exactly that in the JLU cartoon, by presenting the Question as a two-steps-shy-of-Rorschach conspiracy theorist.

The Question without his Objectivism is like a Spider-Man who doesn't believe that "with great power comes great responsibility" (ie. much like how Peter Parker is being written now) - he's simply not the REAL character without it.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

psychop_rex
2009-04-19 04:52 am UTC (link)

I'm not sure that's true - I've read a few examples of post-Ditko pre-O'Neil Question that have written him without any particular use of Objectivism, and they didn't strike me as butchering the character at all. As for the JLU version, I would say that the whole conspiracy theory thing should be treated as a whole different take on the character, not as getting back to his roots - in the original Ditko stories, Vic wasn't presented as paranoid; he was more like the One Sane and Moral Man. I would further argue that the 'two-steps-shy-of-Rorschach' aspects, as you put it, were taken from RORSCHACH, not Ditko (this was, I believe, specifically stated by the writers of the show). Rorschach was a version of Ditko's Question taken to the logical extreme, meaning he went much further than the original ever did.
And regarding O'Neil, I don't think he DID change the character, at least not in any particularly damaging way. Objectivism aside, the Ditko Vic Sage can basically be described thus: a hard-nosed, uncompromising journalist, surrounded by people who largely didn't understand or empathize with his thirst for justice, and who is basically the same person in or out of costume. O'Neil's Vic had all those attributes - he never stopped crusading for justice over the airwaves, he was constantly encountering people who sneered at his values, and his alter ego was basically Vic Sage in blue clothes with no face. As for 'how those beliefs fuck up their lives', O'Neil DID address that - in his very first issue. He had Vic presented as a man who had little or no meaningful human contact in his life, simply because his abrasive attitude and uncompromising stance on things drove people away, and ignoring these inconvenient little human subtleties ultimately got him pummeled nigh unto death and dumped into the river. I'd say his beliefs fucked him up real good.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	ashtoreth 2009-04-18 09:28 pm UTC (link)
	Pretty, but the story is a bit trite. (Reply to this)

psychop_rex
2009-04-19 12:21 am UTC (link)

I don't think that the Banshee is breaking through glass in that panel, I think he's ripping through a screen. We see glass breaking in two other panels, and it looks properly angular and broken - I think the Banshee is punching his way through the screen that the news footage is projected onto, sending ripped bits of cloth flying.
I don't know who this Michael Uslan guy is, but he's doing a pretty good job of channeling Ditko here. That bit where the Question rants about plea-bargaining laws while punching out crooks sounds exactly like something Ditko would write.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	RE: Not Glass.. peur_evol 2009-04-19 01:12 am UTC (link)
	Cloth, wood, styrofoam, plastic, whatever... nothing breaks that way. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Re: Not Glass.. psychop_rex 2009-04-19 04:55 am UTC (link)
	Well, they break MORE that way than glass does; let's put it like that. The point is that it isn't glass. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	tsuki_the_geek 2009-04-19 02:12 pm UTC (link)
	Freakin' awesome? INDEED. WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! (Reply to this)

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