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bluefall ([info]bluefall) wrote in [info]scans_daily,
@ 2009-03-31 23:15:00

Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:char: circe, char: silver swan/vanessa kapatelis, char: wonder woman/diana of themyscira, creator: phil jimenez, series: when wondy was awesome, series: world of wondy

When Wondy was Awesome, part 15 (The Swan, the Witch and the Warrior)
Back to the main Wondy title this time, where we've moved on from the Luke era into the Jimenez era. Generally, I'm not a big fan of Jimenez. He had the particular talent of being both spectacular and spectacularly bad within the space of a single panel, he was a slut for continuity porn to a point often detrimental to storytelling, and he expected his readers to be familiar with pre-Crisis Wondy and random Power Company bad guys and the Super Friends show and all kinds of random crap in order to make sense of half his secondary & tertiary characters. Also, he did a hack job on Polly and saddled us with the travesty that is Trevor Barnes.

However, he gave us some important storylines with some interesting ideas behind them, even when the execution wasn't totally on, and he does a reasonably good Cassie (although again, I don't really know how much of that is that he does a good Cassie and how much is that my standards for "good Cassie" have dropped significantly since YJ ended). So onward we go, with the sad tale of Circe, Diana, and Vanessa Kapatelis: Silver Swan II.




I haven't posted any of it - though I believe [info]ebailey140 might yet do so - but the first Silver Swan (at least, the first post-Crisis Silver Swan) was a Perez rogue. Basically a battered woman metaphor, Valerie Beaudry was a mutant from birth, who, under the influence of the metagene bomb, developed a poor man's Canary Cry. Convinced she was hideous and unlovable, she fell under the influence of industrialist Henry Cobb Armbruster, who made her into a cyborg and a living weapon, focused on the destruction of Wonder Woman as the hateful, impossible idol that no woman could live up to. Diana helped save Val from Armbruster's manipulations, and she retired the Swan suit (although she dug it back out to help Diana once and ended up doing some brief work with the Suicide Squad).

Armbruster got what was coming to him, naturally, and four or five authors and a hundred and sixty-odd issues later, his technology found its way into the hands of one Sebastian Ballesteros.



The naked chick is Vanessa Kapatelis. You may recall her from the Perez run. If you don't, check back a few chapters (don't worry, I'll wait). See after Perez left, WML dropped Nessie like a hot sack of shit, and while Byrne brought her back here and there and made an effort to establish that they were still friends and still in contact, she was basically not a fixture in Diana's cast by the time Jimenez took over, and I imagine a lot of fans had no idea who she was at all. Jimenez decided there was a story hook in that.

Meanwhile, Cassie.





Cassie: Showing early signs of jerkitude, but it's the kind that can also be interpreted as spunk, and she is at least not yet stupid.

The wreckage there, by the by, is from the Swan smashing the Sandsmark home earlier in the ish. Helena was at work, of course, and Cassie's at school, so the Swan hits the museum (Helena survives) and moves on to target Cassie's school.



I'm not entirely sure when Cassie's secret identity became public knowledge. I think it might be right here. I mean obviously Georgia knows, but the other students seem surprised that she's, y'know, holding up a wall and everything.



Look! Cassie fighting intelligently! Using strategy and tactics to turn battle in her favor and protect non-combatants! Anyway, notice that she recognizes her assailant here, though she seems surprised said assailant is... assailing.



Diana and Nessie have a little talk.



Okay, a quick nod to Cassie's snark there, and then I'll take a moment here to chat about my problems with this storyline.

Yes, Perez' Vanessa, when we first met her, was weak. That was her major character trait. She was jealous as hell of Diana, envied her effortless beauty and charisma, and hated the fact that she (Nessie) could never completely trust that her friends or boyfriends liked her for her and not for her houseguest. Yes, she wasn't the most emotionally balanced kid and she harbored a lot of resentment for Diana's periodic long absences.

But that was early Perez. Throughout his entire run, and repeatedly after he left, we see Vanessa's growth away from that. Her unyielding love and adoration for Diana and her exposure to Diana's battles and message make her stronger, to the point where she eventually singlehandedly breaks free of Dr Psycho's manipulations and gives him a minor stroke, over a distance of miles. In her sleep.

And finally and most important, Diana would never abandon her. Forget that she would always, always write back, we're talking a woman who can break Mach 5 without blinking, even when she doesn't have access to alien teleportation tech. It's not like keeping in touch with the Kapatelises would be a stretch for her, and there's no way freakin' Diana would forget her friends.

Was there probably a core there to work with? Sure. And is it, in a simple meta sense, an interesting idea to say "let's take this forgotten character and look at the ramifications of her being forgotten"? Oh, definitely. And was this an interesting story, and even outright fantastic once Rucka got his hands on it? Absolutely yes. But still, there's a fundamental level on which it simply doesn't fit. And that's what I mean when I say Jimenez is spectacular and spectacularly bad in the same instant.

Anyway. Diana, protecting Wonder Girl from psycho Silver Swan screams.



I wonder how one programs psychic control over birds. Also, it should probably be noted that, while Diana is struggling to free Vanessa, Sebastian Ballesteros is stealing the Cheetah spirit from Barbara Minerva by making a weird deal with the plant god. This isn't really relevant to anything but it explains the boy!Cheetah in this next bit here.



I must say it kind of cracks me up to hear someone call Diana a "little fool." She's like, six freakin feet tall and built like a truck. (Okay, not so much here, but when she's drawn properly she is). Barda could get away with that, maybe. Sebastian, not so much.

Regardless, some Our Worlds at War stuff intrudes here, and Circe shows up, takes credit for Sebastian and Vanessa's transformations, and vanishes the three of them for a couple of issues while Themyscira gets shredded and Polly gets kakked. We pick up our story again in New York, four issues later, where Starfire, Jade and Kyle are trying to calm people in the OW@W aftermath.



Okay, I'm not going to post a huge pile of this bit, because it's all very silly. But basically Circe recruits every female baddie in the DCU, takes over New York and turns every male hero and villain she can get her paws on into an animal, for the sole purpose of fucking with Diana. (Remember, she's a goddess, she can do shit like that.) So Diana has Oracle round up every single female hero in the DCU and they all go in and fight it out.

Oh, and there's a nice moment here with Artemis.



I say this for Jimenez. I vastly prefer the way he draws Artemis early in his run to any other rendition I've ever seen - even apart from the cool outfit, he always makes her look properly Egyptian - and he gave us my favorite interpretation of her relationship with Diana. She's the batman (no, the other kind), the Huntress to Diana's Oracle or Sam to her Frodo - she knows she's not the hero of the piece, and she's perfectly satisfied with that, because it's Diana, and Artemis will do anything she needs or asks. Not incidentally, this is also when those two are at their most slashy, and I like that, because Diana deserves a mate who doesn't suck, and Artemis would fit that bill quite nicely.

Back to New York. The heroes are gathering, and we get another nice Cassie moment.



Secret and Empress cameo!



Quick note on Dinah's inclusion here, and this plot in general. From the very first issue of Perez' run, people were writing into the lettercols to say "I'd love to see Wondy team up with X or Y female superhero." People wanted Power Girl and Supergirl and Zatanna and Oracle and a million others, but the one name that came up over and over again is Black Canary - probably because Diana's writers, from Perez to Jimenez, made a point of the fact that they were friends. And in the entirety of Volume 2, the fans got... this.

Apparently once "Rise of the Olympian" is over we'll be getting a nice two-issue team-up between Dinah and Diana, possibly the fruition of a pitch Gail made ages ago that somebody mentioned when I posted this at the old S_D. I can't say I'm not pretty ridiculously excited about that. It is a storyline a long, long time in coming.

Anyway, we're ostensibly here for the Swan stuff, so:



... Diana really does make that face a lot, doesn't she? It's a Perez throwback, one I'm not especially fond of. At some point in his run, Jimenez has Circe mock her for it, which is pretty stupid, frankly, because up until Jimenez, she hadn't done it in years. 's a bit like that thing where Black Panther tells Monica she needs to use her powers more intelligently.



Memo to Circe: Invest in a shirt.

So Diana goes after Circe and Vanessa intercepts her.



Diana's not actually as naive as she looks, here; remember, she's got an ear for the truth, and there's very much a part of Vanessa that means what she's saying here. Not the part in control, obviously, but enough that Diana's power would read it as sincere.

Of course, you can't have a mind control plot without forcing Wondy to duke it out with Supes, so he's around too.



Observe Vanessa's refusal to touch the lasso herself. It would break her programming, after all.



This is also the beginning of the strange repeated story meme of "Wondy fights someone on international television," used three times with Circe and once with Brother Eye. I think I'm going to be disappointed if Gail never gives us a global satellite TV hijack.

The Diana-Supes fight is long and cool, and involves her dislocating her shoulder and having to re-set it, but I will never see a scene about that that is as badass as when Xena did it, so we'll just skip right to the end and the part where we see Vanessa again.



The lasso breaks the spell, as it is wont to do. Elsewhere, Cassie is being cool again and taking down baddies. (We'll leave the Giganta rant for another time.)





Cassie Sandsmark: Loves Star Wars. Kon-El: Has eaten ants.

Meanwhile, there's some nonsense with Luthor and Gypsy defeating Circe aboard Air Force One, and so Circe flies the coop, of course, and takes Vanessa with her.





We're still immediately post-OW@W, here, so Supes is in a sad place. Fortunately he's got freakin Wonder Woman for a best friend, and people like Bats and Donna to watch his emotional back even in the middle of a disaster. I really like their friendship, Supes and Wondy.

Anyway, they get everything all cleaned up and go back to their lives, but Diana isn't real happy.





You know, I totally have that nightmare all the time.



Jimenez goes way, way, way overboard with his usage of the "Great Hera" and "Hera help me"s, but I do give him credit for some appropriate variety to Diana's oaths as well. She has a bad dream, she calls on Morpheus. She's trying to heal, she swears by Asclepius. I always appreciate a little mythological fidelity and depth like that.

The ladies get to the Kapatelis house, and after Cassie snarks that all of Diana's friends are rich and Julia acts out of character, they get down to the serious business of trying to help Vanessa.



Cassie being useful and clever, again! I can't get used to this!



Admittedly, Cassie is being kind of callous here, but several kids, including one of her closer friends, actually died in the Swan's attack on her school, so I can understand her venom.

Having picked up some useful intel, Diana goes back to the lavish mansion she shares with her sister, where she continues to have nightmares.



Diana armors up and heads off to Athens, presumably immediately, since it's daylight there, to confront Circe.



Ha! Virgin! Sometimes Jimenez just cracks my shit right up. First off, I'm skeptical that Diana would call someone "cheap trash" - it's veiled slut-shaming, which is not even, y'know, in Diana's orbit. Second, I find Jimenez' concept of Diana as a virgin completely ludicrous. Of course, I find the very concept of virginity completely ludicrous too, sexist and heterocentric nonsense that it is, so I suppose that's not too shocking, but come on, Phil. If nothing else, did you miss the thing with Rama? Do you not recall the several thousand Amazons who know her as half-celebrity, half-goddess, all gorgeous? Seriously, like Diana of freakin Themyscira has made it to thirty without ever having sex? It is to laugh. (Mostly so I don't weep, I mean Jesus.)

So Circe and Diana duke it out for a couple pages, with the typical taunting that happens in such fights. Circe takes Polly's shape, because she's a dick like that, and Diana offers to rip Circe's head off.



Like so many piss-poor Wondy authors, Circe can't wrap her brain around the idea that a peace-loving, Good-aligned warrior can be willing to kill without betraying her principles. And here's your second international battle broadcast in as many issues.



The little eyes there are Lyta, Circe's daughter, watching her be a psycho and get her ass kicked from the shadows.





Diana, at the last moment, realizes how incredibly pathetic Circe is, and refuses to be baited into murder. I am of mixed opinions about this. On the one hand, Circe's full of shit about the "lies" Diana lives with; killing Circe would be both just and practical, as she's a monster and a danger just as much as Phobos or a Hecatonchiries. There's no violation of code there, and no reason to let her make good on her threats against Diana's friends. And really, this is a bit of the Joker Problem poking in here - after everything Circe's done and will continue to do, there's no excuse for leaving her alive. On the other hand, if Diana killed Circe in that moment it would be... not wrong, but bad. She'd be acting out of hate and anger against a defeated opponent, and assisting the suicide of a miserable woman. Which would not be kosher.

That's kind of what makes it a great scene, though, Jimenez' off-kilter moralizing and weird interpretation of Diana's mission aside. You see some traces here of the old Donna Milton-Diana friendship in their willingness to confess to each other. You see the true depth of Circe's misery. You see Diana cut down and totally splatter an opponent physically and verbally, even as that opponent just as effectively drives her to the edge. Circe has successfully rigged this encounter so that Diana cannot win, although Circe can't either. I find that to be fairly impressive writing.

So after that, a lot of really bad art and Trevor Barnes bullshit happens, and eventually we meet up with Circe again on Themyscira.



They've pretty much buried her in moly, so she's helpless, which amuses me greatly for reasons I don't really understand. But even though she's defeated and totally at Amazon mercy, she's being a pissant and won't help Diana find Vanessa.



Eventually, though, tipped off by Angle Man as to the location of Ballesteros (long story), Diana, Donna and Cassie take the invisible plane (fucking why? All three of them can fly, and at sufficient speeds to negate the concern of stealth) to go take him out and Vanessa intercepts them.



Oh no, their plane has been hit. I wonder how they will survive the fall.



Oh yeah, they can ALL FLY. Also note that Cassie has not appreciably warmed to Vanessa. "Skank" is a bit uncalled-for, though. I mean, it's not OOC for Cassie the way the "cheap trash" bullshit is for Diana, but on top of that it starts to become a deeply vexing trend of Wonders using sexualized insults against other women.

Anyway, other crap also happening at this time: Barbara Minerva versus Sebastian Ballesteros for control of the Cheetah spirit, which is where Donna gets run off to and why Cassie ends up fighting Vanessa alone for a minute here.



I still wonder how you design a machine to psychically control birds.



Go Cassie!



This is, I think, pitch-perfect Diana. Negotiation has failed, the time for violence has come, and she will face it as a warrior, without pleading or regret. But that doesn't mean she's forgotten for a second that this is her sister and friend, and she won't let Cassie treat her without respect, or call this a victory. Even though the Swan is defeated, her master Circe is contained, Cassie is safe, and Vanessa will be healed, this is an ugly, somber end. (Also cool: when Diana finally does decide a beat-down is needed, she takes the Swan out with one smack. This is Diana, after all.)

And that pretty much wraps Jimenez. I seem to have done all my commentary and bitching between the scans this time around, so no wrap-up this time. I'll just leave you with a nice artistic spread of Jimenez' best contribution to the mythos: stunning, mythic Themyscira, built from powerful magic and impossibly futuristic tech in gorgeous harmony, all trace of primitive Bronze Age uselessness left definitively and beautifully behind.



All scans from Wonder Woman v2 #170 - 187.


Next time: The JLA indulges in petty bickering, a funny-looking alien calls Diana a whore, Major Disaster takes his life in his hands, and Manitou coins my favorite Wondy nickname of all time.


(Post a new comment)


[info]mullon
2009-03-31 11:37 pm UTC (link)
I keep hoping they'll bring back a deprogrammed Silver Swan as a Wonder Woman ally.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]bluefall
2009-04-01 06:38 pm UTC (link)
Vanessa, it doesn't seem plausible to me. There's too much trauma for both of them there, and it's all wrapped up in the identity of the Swan and the interaction with Diana.

Valerie, on the other hand, has an established habit of doing so - she tried to help Diana with the War of the Gods thing (Diana sent her home for being underpowered), and she joined the Suicide Squad for a minute or two. Seeing her again could be pretty cool as a reinforcement of the whole "Diana is redemptive" thing, and it makes a lot of sense, since for her the Swan identity was more a mixed blessing than a curse, and her trauma was all tied up in Armbruster with Diana as her savior. Her deciding to reclaim the Swan identity as a source of power for herself was a neat thing, and it would be very cool to see her come back (and to see Diana have to try to negotiate the change in her own perception of the Swan ID due to Vanessa).

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]freeman333
2009-04-01 01:08 am UTC (link)
This whole sequence was never that impressive to me, though I like the return of Vanessa (she was too good a character to lose entirely) and I absolutely love the idea of putting all the female characters together and seeing what happens when there are no men around at all.

But there's one moment not included here that I really liked, and it's when Diana catches Clark's Doomsday-ed fist in her open hand, which really played well as a violent motion captured in a still panel. Some of the fight scenes here are a bit awkward, and the lines of motion don't follow well, but that particular panel really hit the spot dead-on.

(Reply to this)


[info]arbre_rieur
2009-04-01 05:05 am UTC (link)
Was Jimenez's run the one where Dr. Cyber appeared?

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]bluefall
2009-04-01 06:42 pm UTC (link)
Yes.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]warpedhand
2009-04-01 06:33 am UTC (link)
I always liked the idea that Circe and Diana were equal opposites. Diana's Truth, and Circe is Illusion and whatnot.

(Reply to this)


[info]lieut_kettch
2009-04-01 07:20 am UTC (link)
Needs to be said:

Cassie and Anita need no help with their sexy fight.

(Reply to this)


[info]unknownscribler
2009-04-01 07:39 am UTC (link)
Man I love love love floating islands. It's a major architectural kink.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]bluefall
2009-04-01 06:52 pm UTC (link)
I must motto this. I'm especially partial to them when they've got impossible waterfalls like that. Are they magically stealing the last couple miles of some river in Russia for that, or is there actually a portal to some aquatic dimension at the headwater, and they're steadily raising sealevel with that thing? Or maybe it's drawing right from the sea somehow, and there's a filtration trap or something that they get all their table salt from. So many delightfully absurd possibilities.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]unknownscribler
2009-04-19 08:10 am UTC (link)
From memory, Themyscria III sucks up and filters the sea water from beneath it (which arguably has to have some degree of ecological effect from the constant introduction of freshwater into a saline environment).

I'm wondering if there are any subsurface structures put in place as part of the installation and what sort of new ecologies that might lead to.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]scottyquick
2009-04-01 08:09 am UTC (link)
Everyone looks so pretty when drawn by Jiminez. Especially Conner.

(Reply to this)


[info]gwalla.livejournal.com
2009-04-01 05:53 pm UTC (link)
stunning, mythic Themyscira, built from powerful magic and impossibly futuristic tech in gorgeous harmony, all trace of primitive Bronze Age uselessness left definitively and beautifully behind.
Needs kangas, though.

It strikes me that Jimenez can do some decent character work. It just doesn't necessarily match the characters he's given. He's a bit like Willingham in that respect.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]bluefall
2009-04-01 06:47 pm UTC (link)
It has kangas! Jimenez snuck some in in a one-panel scenery shot where they totally blend into the grass and you could easily mistake them for horses if you weren't paying attention.

But the fact that I read his entire run and didn't know that until somebody pointed it out to me at S_D last year nevertheless makes me count a one-panel blink-and-you'll-miss-it easter egg like that as insufficient kangatude to be able to say "it's totally canon that the amazons have kangas." I mean, Jimenez put more effort into establishing the dinosaurs roaming around the place than that, and you know we'll never see them again.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]mari_redstar
2009-04-01 07:42 pm UTC (link)
"You stole my name, my role, and my best friend, and you get sneakers! They didn't even give me any shoes! I had to mug an exotic dancer for these boots!"

Damn, Themyscira really does look impressive there.

(Reply to this)


[info]jupiterrhode
2009-04-01 10:16 pm UTC (link)
Jimenez's art does Diana's costume no favors. It's too realistic. Which is a shame because in general it's really gorgeous.

He draws an especially pretty Kon, I notice.

(Reply to this)


[info]mcbangle
2009-04-01 10:51 pm UTC (link)
Wow, Circe has some seriously bad fashion sense (except for her pretty Amazon wear, of course)!

(Reply to this)


[info]magus_69
2009-04-02 03:40 am UTC (link)
Ah, Jiminez.

I'll say this for him: his artwork is spectacular, his attention to continuity is almost* obsessive, and the two often come together very well. The upper half of the page where Vanessa gives the speech about how her life has been since Diana "left" is fantastic. The pictures of Julia and of Diana and Vanessa together were expected, and the graduation outfit was a nice touch, but then Jiminez had to go and bring in Eileen, Myndi, Mr. Westlake, Barry Locatelli (of all people!), Psycho, Decay, and-- best of all, to my mind-- Lucy. The juxtaposition of grieving Vanessa (pose and outfit directly taken from the cover of that issue) over that shot of the chalk drawing of Lucy and Vanessa just as the rain started to fall... I'm only sorry that most of the readers at the time wouldn't get the reference. The creation of Neo-Themyscira, with it's numerous callbacks to Wonder Woman #1 is another example of that.

This is probably one of the biggest problems with Jiminez as well. The impact is lost without the continuity.

*-- I say "almost" because Cassie was about to insult Terri Jewel Jackson. TJ certainly displayed some jerkitude, but not to any of the YJ girls and it would be hard to imagine her being a jerk after they saved her from the werewolves.

I'm not entirely sure when Cassie's secret identity became public knowledge. I think it might be right here. I mean obviously Georgia knows, but the other students seem surprised that she's, y'know, holding up a wall and everything.

(And again with the YJ. If only I could post!)

I'm pretty sure that you're right, but Cassie seems to have had difficulty maintaining the secret ID for a while before this. She displayed her strength during the initial werewolf attack... which took place right in front of the entire Wendy the Werewolf Stalker crew. She was able to cover that time, but TJJ would have had to have been an utter moron to not figure out that Cassie was Wonder Girl after the second attack.

Also, Cassie's costume at that point was a variation of her original costume, only without the wig. She still had the goggles, but she never wore them, so... THE GOGGLES! THEY DID NOTHING!

Okay, a quick nod to Cassie's snark there,

Let me guess: that panel is where you got the idea that Vanessa turned Diana on to boy bands, isn't it?

(Reply to this)


[info]magus_69
2009-04-02 03:42 am UTC (link)
(split into two, because this next section pushed it over the limit word-wise)

I mean, it's not OOC for Cassie the way the "cheap trash" bullshit is for Diana, but on top of that it starts to become a deeply vexing trend of Wonders using sexualized insults against other women.

THIS.

I think that it's a sign of ingrained sexism showing itself. There are a few really choice words to use if one wishes to insult someone using the target's gender. Each of them draws on cultural mores about sexuality and gender roles, which are bound up in harmful notions of superiority, inferiority, and power. Those notions would be ridiculous if they weren't so prevalent, but then the insult would be infinitely less if they were. Note that "dick" and "breeder" are practically inoffensive compared to their counterparts. I think that is why they hurt so much: they reinforce notions of powerlessness in their victims.

It's at once horrifying and fascinating to watch a Wonder Woman writer have his heroines use these terms. Marston must have been turning over in his grave. For all of his kinks (oh so many!), and all the fetishizing of strong women (and people think Whedon is bad!), and all of the gender weirdness (and general weirdness!), Marston was genuinely attempting to move the fuck away from this! This is inanity on the level of Pre-Crisis Diana saying that she didn't really like women.

I can buy Cassie backsliding; Vanessa outed her, tried to kill her mother, and succeeded in killing innocent people in an attempt to get at Cassie. Cassie doesn't have the history that Diana has with Vanessa, and I think at that point* Vanessa had hurt her more than anyone else ever had. Diana, on the other hand... Diana was raised by the Amazons, who were quite literally created to repair gaps between different groups. She has the wisdom of Athena and the loving heart of Aphrodite. Any one of those should make her immune the various -isms that keep fucking us up, and Diana has all three of them. Diana would only ever use the phrase "cheap trash" in the literal sense, ie. when describing shoddily produced items being sold for almost nothing.

*-- Note the qualifier. Johns and McKeever hadn't gotten at her yet!

I'll end with a quote from Angel the Series (4.01, "Deep Down")

"Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh, and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions. It doesn't matter where we come from, what we've done or suffered, or even if we make a difference. We live as though the world was what it should be, to show it what it can be."

I cannot find a single syllable of that which fails to completely line up with Diana's world view. She lives as though the world were as it should be, to show it what it can be. The kinds of insults we are talking about simply don't square with Diana's worldview. She should not use them.

Ever.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]bluefall
2009-04-18 01:46 am UTC (link)
Huh. I think I must have missed the email notification for this comment back when I posted this, because there is no other way I could have failed to say AMEN TO YOU SIR. Just, precisely, to all of that.

I've been slowly trying to excise sexist terms from my own language over the years and while yes, it's really, really hard - "bitch" especially is almost impossible to get around - it's doable, particularly in writing when you have a chance to catch yourself, re-evaluate, and change what you've put down. And there's no excuse for not paying attention and making that effort when writing Wonder Woman, of all things.

(The slag on TJJ, TBH, actually strikes me that way as well - not just because Cassie's about to use said ubiquitous very gendered "bitch," but because the whole structure of that conversation is so very the opposite of the Wonder Woman ethos - that old familiar "gush about the guy's sexual merit while cutting down the girl as failed competition" thing. Also, I cut the conversation in the invisible plane on the way to Sebastian's hideout, in which all three of them gush about their respective male crushes in the most awe-inspiring violation of Bechdel's I think I've ever seen. Not like any of this is shocking considering the whole Trevor Barnes thing, but still, worth pointing out and being sad about.)

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]magus_69
2009-04-18 02:55 am UTC (link)
I've been slowly trying to excise sexist terms from my own language over the years and while yes, it's really, really hard - "bitch" especially is almost impossible to get around - it's doable, particularly in writing when you have a chance to catch yourself, re-evaluate, and change what you've put down.

I've been trying to do the same, if probably not for as long as you have, and I've run into the same wall. I think that there are two conflated reasons. The first reason is that it has taken on a couple of meanings beyond the technical one. The second is that few people really think about what they're saying when they say it because it is so common.

Hmm. There are certainly more offensive sexist insults, but none of those are ever tossed out casually. I wonder if that might make it the worst of all.

Also, I cut the conversation in the invisible plane on the way to Sebastian's hideout, in which all three of them gush about their respective male crushes in the most awe-inspiring violation of Bechdel's I think I've ever seen.

*blinks*

They were talking about what on the way to where?

That's just--- GAH!

*sigh*

I can picture the Flashes talking about relationships on their way to fight a villain, because every single one of them is devoted to a special someone. The GL's might do it too, although that conversation would have a very different feel. However, the only family group that has anything like the warrior focus of the Wonders is the Batclan, and I cannot imagine any writer having Batman, Nightwing, and Robin talking about women on the way to fight the Joker. Having them mentally angst about Barbara and maybe Sarah is one thing, but they wouldn't actually be talking. Talking about women might have a deleterious effect on Bruce's double-standard, and we can't have that.

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(Anonymous)
2009-12-23 10:36 pm UTC (link)
Do you have any scans of when Nessie got her upgrade and was made even MORE dangerous?

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[info]bluefall
2009-12-24 10:46 am UTC (link)
See the Rucka chapters for that.

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[info]silverzeo
2009-04-02 12:39 pm UTC (link)
So Silver Swan is like Syndrome from Icredibles.

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