InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "Or coming and staying?"

claudie (flirting with modernism) (lipsofpoison) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-11-06 16:35:00

Entry tags:

char: alfred pennyworth, char: batman/bruce wayne, char: catwoman/selina kyle, char: elongated man/ralph dibny, char: jim gordon, char: joker, char: leslie thompkins, char: robin/red hood/jason todd, char: two-face/harvey dent, creator: alan davis, creator: joey cavalieri, creator: klaus janson, creator: mike w. barr, title: detective comics

Jason in 'Tec Comics
I've saved a lot of random bits of Jason adventures in 'Tec Comics over the last couple of years and upon reviewing them, there are some interesting points and foreshadowing, so after #571 was put up, I thought I'd put these up as well. Some of them are on the crisis cusp (just before, just after) so be aware of that. Let's start with what Jason's cape was used most often for:

# 568
It's interesting to see the emphasis is on the fight, not the victim. I always thought that was one of the main differences between Jason and Dick.

#569
This...what can I really say about this? It's got Papa Spank. Mostly, it's the banter between Jason and Bruce that borders on disturbing, considering the emphasis that's put on Jason's violent tendencies.

I admit, I put this one in the lulz.

This is one of my favourites, because it's repeated in reverse in Under the Hood with Jason cutting Bruce's belt. I love little echoes like that.

#569
It's also good to see that Jason and Selina aren't keen on one another, so at least something about their Battle for the Cowl fight was historically accurate. The look he's giving her here is downright vexed.

Again, there's an Underthe Hood echo here. As with My Beginning and My Probable End, Bruce is what Jason says when he wakes up rather than Batman.

#570

I like this, because it shows Bruce is aware of some of the dangers here and he has a lot of confidence in what Jason can do.

I remember reading a Robin once which depicted Jason kicking the Joker in the crotch. I did get very amused when I saw this for that very reason.

Bruce is very out of control here. It's interesting to note that this is before The Killing Joke, so honestly I think it's an overeaction. I'm sure Jason ended up regreting this one, though.

#572
This is from a very special Detective Comics, where they head to London with Elongated Man and meet Sherlock Holmes. Honestly, it's worth reading just for that.

#579
Honestly, it's Jim Gordon I love here but it's good to see Jason's perceptiveness coming into play.

I will admit to being quite a big fan of Leslie, so I love how indignant she is here.

This was absolutely put in for amusement.

#580
There really aren't any words for this one, honestly. It dated horribly.

Has this been retconned? I thought up till I saw this it was still Two-Face that did it, as it's said in ADitF.

#581

I liked seeing the journey and some resolution with the Two_Face story. I did always wonder why that had never come up as a sore point as it had before, so I was glad to see there was some addressing of it.

(Post a new comment)

	jlroberson 2009-11-06 06:04 pm UTC (link)
	That shot of the Joker confused and doing a double take is what made me love Alan Davis. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	lipsofpoison 2009-11-06 06:05 pm UTC (link)
	It's pure cartoon. I love it. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	jlroberson 2009-11-06 09:32 pm UTC (link)
	And his Angry Batman, because Davis doesn't go there much, is actually kind of frightening. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	arkyramone 2009-11-06 07:49 pm UTC (link)
	This and the Uncanny X-Men Annual (11) with logan becoming god (Reply to this) (Parent)

	brandiweed.livejournal.com 2009-11-06 08:54 pm UTC (link)
	Davis gives the Joker the oddest eyebrows. But he makes it work. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	hyperactivator 2009-11-06 06:23 pm UTC (link)
	I love the art on these. It makes me hate decompression. (Reply to this)

	sistermagpie 2009-11-06 06:28 pm UTC (link)
	I agree with one of the main differences with Jason. But these scans really serve him well, showing that he's got maybe different weaknesses than the other members of the family, but they weren't clearly things that he couldn't work on if given time and effort. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	lipsofpoison 2009-11-06 06:28 pm UTC (link)
	I totally agree. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	benicio127 2009-11-06 07:02 pm UTC (link)
	Is this all post-crisis Jason? I think in light of the potential crap that Morrison may pull on Jason, I say we have a Jason Todd week. If DC shows him no love, at least the fans can. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	lipsofpoison 2009-11-06 07:18 pm UTC (link)
	It's all technically post crisis but only those after #572 seem to be considered canon for it. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	jlroberson 2009-11-06 09:34 pm UTC (link)
	I think we can consider him pre-Crisis. For one thing, he's stopping Batman from killing the Joker. That would not be a post-Crisis Jason thing to do--and I don't mean just with the Joker. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	lipsofpoison 2009-11-06 09:37 pm UTC (link)
	It's post the Crisis so they were faffing a bit on him. Some of later things are definitely post Crisis and are listed after Jason's official post-crisis beginning. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	jlroberson 2009-11-06 10:59 pm UTC (link)
	No, what I mean is that his personality is pre-crisis. And had Collins retconned him yet? The changes, as I recall, were a little slow to catch up to Batman. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

mysteryfan
2009-11-06 11:24 pm UTC (link)

His personality was like this post-crisis, and even after Batman Year One. There was some variation of personality, and he had some more violent moments, but he spent a lot of stories like this, too. IMO. He was like this by two stories into Collins four-issue run.

Right after Millers Batman Year One ended in Batman 407, Collins wrote Jason stealing the tires origin in Batman 408. (Publishing date: June 87)

Meanwhile, as I understand it, over in Detective, #575 (October 87) is thought by some to be the first Post-Year One/Crisis deal Detective issue. (Depends on who you ask, but by some considered.) And above, you've got Tecs from 568-582. 575 was the first 'Tec after Barr's Year Two, so that's why some settle on that date as pseudo-official, but it wasn't a hard reboot for Bat titles, as I understand it was for Superman. Like you said, changes were different for Bat titles.

Some also mention the Legends issues, but at any rate, there was a lot of overlap.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	lipsofpoison 2009-11-06 11:40 pm UTC (link)
	I think the fact the Bats took forever to catch up makes it so damned confusing. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	icon_uk 2009-11-06 07:07 pm UTC (link)
	Ah, after the success of the Scarecrow one, I was planning on posting some more from the Barr/Davis run at some point. Cheers for the extra bits to tide things over! (Reply to this)

	shadowvalkyrie 2009-11-06 07:22 pm UTC (link)
	Whee, so much Jason love! Thank you! (Reply to this)

	philippos42 2009-11-06 07:54 pm UTC (link)
	Wow, that's a lot of Alan Davis. Breyfogle I remember from when they came out, but I missed the Davis run on 'Tec. Klaus Janson? And...oh, Grandenetti. I like his Bruce. Different from the usual form. (Reply to this)

	toasty_fresh 2009-11-06 08:49 pm UTC (link)
	These are great-- tiny Jay is just too cute! Also, I love how Bruce minds Selina kissing him in front of Jason, but he doesn't care that a stray gust of wind could easily blow up the front panel of her skirt-- and don't try to tell me she's somehow wearing underwear with those slits xD (Reply to this)

	jlroberson 2009-11-06 09:37 pm UTC (link)
	Notice how these scans cover a bunch of things people gripe about with DC to this day: 1)Batman's rationality is in the forefront, his rage is mostly controlled, and he is capable of smiling. And doesn't seem crazy. 2) Jason is not a bastard. 3) Ralph Dibny is alive and smiling. (Reply to this)

	mcbangle 2009-11-06 09:40 pm UTC (link)
	"He evnisions rock-hard muscles becoming pliant... fluid... yielding..." Great line or greatest line? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	mcbangle 2009-11-06 09:40 pm UTC (link)
	envisions, not evnisions (Reply to this) (Parent)

	darklorelei 2009-11-07 01:21 am UTC (link)
	That panel of Ralph as a parachute is ridiculous. Love it. (Reply to this)

runespoor7
2009-11-07 01:54 am UTC (link)

I kinda like Mike Barr's take on Jason, but at the same time it occasionally reads so very, very odd. Take the panels where Jason - who grew up in Crime Alley - doesn't realize that Rhonda is a hooker.

And even the extract from 568 is entirely at odd with my view of Post-Crisis Jason, and this is where I disagree with you when you than with Jason, it's more about the fight than about the victims. Most of Jason's anger issues later in his time as Robin or after he got resurrected come from, I think, from his minding the victims, wanting to protect them and to get revenge for them. I'm absolutely unable to imagine Post-Crisis Jason thinking saving an innocent's life is not 'the important stuff'.

Seeing Jason do the normal Robin stuff of making sure Batman doesn't flip off the handle makes me a little nostalgic. If Morrison could be kind enough to refer to that through his Jason's bitter ranting, it'd excuse much.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	lipsofpoison 2009-11-07 01:58 am UTC (link)
	I always thought he developed a more victim point of view as he got older, rather than having that instant empathy. I noticed it a lot more with the last six months of his Robin career than with the beginning, but that could be the writing. (Reply to this) (Parent)

ladymirth
2009-11-07 03:04 am UTC (link)

These are wonderful. Fuck the retcons, Jay was a good Robin as any while he lasted. What the hell kind of people would want to kill a perky butt-kicking boy-child like that off?

Not that I'm complaining too much, mind, since I love Jason as Winnick has re-imagined him and it also gave us Tim Drake, possibly my favourite character ever. Now if they can all stop pissing on poor Jay.

(Reply to this)

	rhythmbandit 2009-11-07 04:16 am UTC (link)
	I never really read many Batman comics with Jason, but these are pretty fun, thanks! I love Jason's face with the big white eyes, reminds me of the kid on the cover of MAD! (Reply to this)

	rushhouragain 2009-11-08 04:18 am UTC (link)
	Robin's legs are so distracting. They're always splitting and high-kicking and (3rd pg) straddling things. Must be his short shorts, they just kinda draw you in. oh and one more thing: chum. (Reply to this)