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trueredorion (trueredorion) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-10-31 21:12:00

Entry tags:

char: dr. strange/stephen strange, char: dracula, char: sif, char: thor, title: thor

Thor vs. Dracula
Just under the wire for Halloween (my time), here's Thor vs. Dracula. 6 pages from Thor #332 and 7 from Thor #333.

During the early 80's Dracula seemed to just randomly pop up and fight every hero he could. He fought the Silver Surfer, Howard the Duck, the Defenders, the X-Men (twice) and others during this time period. Thor jumped on the bandwagon since the book was going through a down period between the end of Roy Thomas' run and the beginning of Simonson's.

Thor slays some of Dracula's victims who have arisen as vampires:

While this is going on Dracula has become obsessed with Sif and while Thor is doing this he feeds on her while she's asleep at the end of the issue. The next issue reveals Sif is now under Dracula's control and has developed amnesia. Her blood has also super-charged Dracula's powers. Thor discovers this when he goes to visit Dr. Strange and goes to confront them at the Opera.

The fight:

Dracula flees through a hole in the roof and Thor follows.

Seriously who the hell tries to attack somebody who can fight evenly with the Hulk with rats?

Sif is back to normal and Dracula is killed by Dr. Strange along with every other vampire in his next appearance.

(Post a new comment)

	amazingman 2009-11-01 06:25 am UTC (link)
	Maybe I'm thinking about this too much, but if holy objects repel vampires, wouldn't drinking the blood of a goddess be sort of like a human chugging lava? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	ex_darkblade992 2009-11-01 07:17 am UTC (link)
	Why does he even want Sif's blood in the first place? Doesn't immortality come with the whole vampire deal? (Reply to this) (Parent)

chthonicspirit
2009-11-01 08:08 am UTC (link)

Marvelverse vampires seem to be repelled by 'faith power' - I remember in Dracula's early X-men appearance, crucifixes worked for Nightcrawler but not for Wolverine, and Kitty couldn't use a cross but could use her Star of David, etcetera. A goddess might be holy, but it sees logical that she wouldn't have a real religious belief in herself, the same way a mortal who worshiped her would.

If that makes sense?

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	cainofdreaming 2009-11-01 01:33 pm UTC (link)
	So she'd need an Asatru who'd wield her like a club and bashed the vampires? I'd buy that for a dollar. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	icon_uk 2009-11-01 11:44 am UTC (link)
	Probably something along the lines of "Sif was never worshipped in and of herself, Mjolnir was" (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	va1tyr 2009-11-01 06:49 pm UTC (link)
	Sif was a Goddess, although how much she was directly worshipped is unclear. Mjolnir wasn't really worshipped; but facsimiles of it are often worn by Asatru. So I guess it's like the cross for Christians. Which goes on to suggest that Jesus wouldn't be much use against vampires unless he had a cross. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	arilou_skiff 2009-11-01 12:44 pm UTC (link)
	I've always wanted someone to trick a vampire into drinking sanctified wine. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	salamangkiero 2009-11-01 04:04 pm UTC (link)
	I do believe that John Constantine takes level of badass in that regard... (Reply to this) (Parent)

	ravenous_raven 2009-11-01 04:16 pm UTC (link)
	"I never drink...wine" (Reply to this) (Parent)

	lonewolf23k 2009-11-01 04:44 pm UTC (link)
	I've once had this idea for a Redemption-seeking vampire who drinks communal wine to slake his thirst for Blood, since it's "The Blood of Christ." (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	joysweeper 2009-11-01 09:33 pm UTC (link)
	I like that idea. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	janegray 2009-11-03 09:19 pm UTC (link)
	I'm pretty sure buffy once tricked a vampire into drinking holy water. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	arilou_skiff 2009-11-04 06:57 am UTC (link)
	Yeah, John Constantine did too, but that's not the same as the blood of Christ. Which would have far more ironic implications. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	ex_darkblade992 2009-11-01 07:10 am UTC (link)
	"Dracula is killed by Dr. Strange along with every other vampire in his next appearance." Except all the vampires that would keep showing up for years to come, mostly to be killed by Blade. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	robogeek 2009-11-01 11:55 am UTC (link)
	Actually no. They pretty much kept the Montesi formula working (in some unexpected ways) from 1984 to 1990. Even then, they kept Drac dead until 1994 (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	tavella 2009-11-01 02:05 pm UTC (link)
	It was a quite nice example of a major development being sustained and carried through. Six years is an eternity in comics time. (Reply to this) (Parent)

filkertom
2009-11-01 07:15 am UTC (link)

"The enchanted Mjolnir was once a religious relic, and wielded by a staunch believer...."

Ummm, it certainly still would be a religious relic wielded by a staunch believer, as Thor is a god, who presumably believes in himself.

For that matter, Thor seems to know about vampires, but then says, "Though thou walk this night, never shalt thou see the light of dawn, unholy creatures!" They never would anyway, 'cause it would, y'know, destroy them.

Ahhh, for the days of the No-Prize....

(Reply to this) (Thread)

psychop_rex
2009-11-01 09:59 am UTC (link)

They ARE saying it's being wielded by a staunch believer. 'The enchanted Mjolnir was once a religious relic, and wielded by a staunch believer it has a profound effect... as the monster bursts to flame and ashens into dust'. I'd call that the effect of a staunch believer, wouldn't you? It's not saying that Thor's not a believer, it's just saying that Mjolnir is no longer technically a 'relic'.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	filkertom 2009-11-01 03:59 pm UTC (link)
	That's kinda my point. The phrasing is, erm, passing strange. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

psychop_rex
2009-11-01 08:34 pm UTC (link)

I think a 'relic' is specifically something that's no longer being used or has any relevance - an artifact, something you'd see in a museum; interesting, but with no practical use now that the world has moved on. Without Thor, Mjolnir has no use, since (in theory, anyway) it can't be used by anyone else - with him in the picture, it is no longer a relic, but instead a useful, practical weapon.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	icon_uk 2009-11-01 11:48 am UTC (link)
	A relic is only truly a relic to the faith in question, as there doesn't appear to be an active Norse-pantheon-worshipping religious assembly, even in a world where their gods walk the earth, I'd say the past tense was appropriate. The "thou shalt never see the light of dawn" does seem to be a little bit odd, though I got what he meant. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	jlroberson 2009-11-01 04:38 pm UTC (link)
	Well, not really. For instance, in Iceland they still worship Thor and others. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	icon_uk 2009-11-01 05:04 pm UTC (link)
	Fair enough, Asatru was a new one on me! (Reply to this) (Parent)

	volksjager 2009-11-02 12:56 am UTC (link)
	He has a cave there. I won't tell you what Geyser is supposed to represent. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	lissa_quon 2009-11-01 08:10 am UTC (link)
	sorry, I'm distracted. The first couple scans, that vampire, in the pink/purple dress, is that a man in drag or the worlds ugliest woman with the world's worst haircut? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	psychop_rex 2009-11-01 10:02 am UTC (link)
	I think that's supposed to be some sort of hospital gown. He's just escaped from the morgue, after all. (Reply to this) (Parent)

psychop_rex
2009-11-01 10:06 am UTC (link)

I find it eminently satisfying for a comic to acknowledge that, yes, other types of religious symbols CAN affect vampires in the exact same way a crucifix does - even ancient, pagan ones. Thor should take up a side-job as a vampire slayer - the merest love-tap from his hammer would likely be enough to explode a vampire into bloody gobbets.
Also 'Sweet Justice!' is a kick-ass expression.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	icon_uk 2009-11-01 11:52 am UTC (link)
	I think the comics were amongst the first of to use the "other religious symbols" bit, certainly Kitty's Star of David worked for her. I wondered whether a rainstorm summoned by Thor would count as holy water. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	fredneil.livejournal.com 2009-11-01 02:18 pm UTC (link)
	A Star of David isn't really a religious symbol, though. It's more a symbol of identification with the Jewish people, but it has no religious significance. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	icon_uk 2009-11-01 02:32 pm UTC (link)
	Not directly perhaps, but I'd say it has quite a lot of religious significance, since Judaism is recognised as both a religious and ethnic identity, and the Star of David is so closely linked to Judaism. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

fredneil.livejournal.com
2009-11-01 04:08 pm UTC (link)

But that just means people who aren't Jews would give it religious significance. Few, if any, Jews would think of a Star of David as something that has religious meaning the way a Christian would think of a crucifix. A vampire being repulsed by it would be like a vampire being repulsed by a patriotic person waving a flag.

It's more likely that a Jewish person would be carrying around a Star of David than anything that did have religious significance, but it might have made a good scene if the write had put in the extra effort and worked in, say, Kitty ripping a mezuzah from a doorpost and throwing it at Dracula like a dagger. Actually, that's the only thing I can think of that would really be an equivalent to a crucifix.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

icon_uk
2009-11-01 04:46 pm UTC (link)

Actually, the likes of Stephen King's vampires, and the Haemavores in Doctor Who's "Curse of Fenric" WOULD be repelled by that, since it's the belief that repels them, not the object. The Haemovores (vampires in all but name) are not repelled by a vicar whose faith is failing, but are by a committed Russsian soldier who hold a Red Star insignia)

And so it is for Kitty, the Star of David is IIRC a family heirloom, and is a symbol of her ethnic and religious identity, it defines who she is and where she comes from, that's all that is needed for faith, not necessarily a direct analogue to the Christian crucifix.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

psychop_rex
2009-11-01 08:12 pm UTC (link)

Errm, probably not. For one thing, holy water is solely a Christian concept, as far as I know - there are certainly springs and lakes and so forth that pagans consider holy areas, but it's more the place itself than water taken from it - and for another, I'm pretty certain that holy water is really just regular ol' water that's had prayers said over it. Thor doesn't NEED to say prayers - he summons the weather patterns, not the rain. The rain is a handy byproduct, and I'm pretty certain it's just normal rain.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	petalsinthewind 2009-11-01 04:52 pm UTC (link)
	"acknowledge"? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

psychop_rex
2009-11-01 08:39 pm UTC (link)

What I mean is, it seems that vampires are often shown showing vulnerability only to Christian symbols, which has always rankled me. If it's the power of belief that invests a symbol with power, that should include ANY symbol, up to and specifically including such holy weapons as Mjolnir, replicas of which used to be worn by vikings much in the same way that Christians wear crucifixes.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	petalsinthewind 2009-11-01 10:58 pm UTC (link)
	I don't think it is traditionally faith but the power of God/Jesus that is supposed to have warded off vampires. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

psychop_rex
2009-11-01 11:29 pm UTC (link)

If you're looking at it from a strictly Christian perspective, yes - but first off, I'm not a Christian, so I don't look at it from a strictly Christian perspective, and second, this is set in the Marvel Universe, where numerous different pantheons of gods are shown to have an active part in Earthly affairs - you CAN'T look at it from a strictly Christian perspective in that context; it doesn't make sense, since the MU is obviously not a strictly Christian universe.
Anyway, vampires, in one form or another, appear all over the world, including in folkloric traditions that don't include Christianity at all, so putting them in a strictly Christian context makes little sense. Eastern Europe has given rise to the best-known variation of vampire, but it's far from the only one - and even that variety includes numerous details that hark back to pre-Christian traditions (garlic, the wooden stake, and running water are all clearly pre-Christian).

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petalsinthewind
2009-11-02 12:13 am UTC (link)

Yes.

And in settings with where "vampires are often shown showing vulnerability only to Christian symbols," it is not "the power of belief that invests a symbol with power," but the power of God.

Also, the folklore surrounding the manananggal, the ramanga, jiang shi, etc. obviously don't apply here: It's Dracula.

I am just saying that "faith" being what repels vampires is just a multicultural interpretation of the more traditional folklore. It is traditionally God, which means only crosses/crucifixes warding vampires makes sense in those stories. There isn't a more true interpretation to "acknowledge".

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	psychop_rex 2009-11-02 01:36 am UTC (link)
	Well, let's put it this way - it has been shown, elsewhere in Marvel continuity, that other religious symbols WILL repel a vampire, if believed in. It's nice to see they're acknowledging that, if nothing else. (Besides, I personally think that if vampures DO exist, and follow the traditional rules, then the 'faith not God' rule likely applies - but that's just me.) (Reply to this) (Parent)

icon_uk
2009-11-02 01:47 am UTC (link)

Depends on what you mean by "traditionally", if you mean the Bram Stoker Dracula, then yes it was particularly the Christian symbology which warded him off, and Van Hesling makes a particular note that he has special dispensation from the Vatican to carry consecrated Communion wafers (Which is a tightly controlled privilege, granted to members of the clergy and Ministers of Commmunion).

If you mean other popular takes on the genre, like Salem's Lot, then it's the faith, not the symbol.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	arilou_skiff 2009-11-01 12:35 pm UTC (link)
	Last page there? With thor placing his hand on Drac's stomach as Drac is half-shirtless? Yeah. (Reply to this)

Hah!..thanks for posting this..

steverodgers5
2009-11-01 01:41 pm UTC (link)

Thor the Vampire Slayer! I really love it when very different characters get mixed and matched like this. There's something tremendously satisfying about Dracula in all his usual arrogance coming up against someone who isn't the least intimidated by him. Talk about biting off more than you can chew!;)

And I like the fact that Thor and Doc Strange were colluding on the case. Yay for Supernatural team-work!

(Reply to this)

	(Anonymous) 2009-11-01 04:07 pm UTC (link)
	"Seriously who the hell tries to attack somebody who can fight evenly with the Hulk with rats?" Is that really any different that Hank Pym and Scott Lang attacking people like Titania and Wonder Man with ants? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	deleonjh 2009-11-01 07:20 pm UTC (link)
	I still think Dracula vs. the Silver Surfer and Spidey vs. Firelord is BS, especially the second. Actually Spidey vs. Superman also counts except it has horndog Spidey hitting on anything in a skirt (including Wonder Woman!) so I forgive its eccentricities. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	cainofdreaming 2009-11-01 08:26 pm UTC (link)
	Drac vs Surfer wasn't that bad. Surfer was diabolically influenced, and not operating at his normal level. He even thought to himself that something was making him fight worse than he should be able. And Dracula only really succeeded in throwing him around a couple of times and getting the heck out of dodge, doing absolutely no damage to Surfer. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	joysweeper 2009-11-01 09:36 pm UTC (link)
	Thor talks a lot. I like this. Can't help considering how the whole plotline would be carried out today. It would be a lot longer, for one, and the first vampire and the bats would probably get away... (Reply to this)

	perletwo 2009-11-01 11:12 pm UTC (link)
	Vince Colletta on inks fer surely; who did the pencils? Ditko, or a Ditko acolyte? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	icon_uk 2009-11-02 01:43 am UTC (link)
	www.comics.org lists Don Perlin for 332 / Mark Bright for 333 and yes, Colletta on inks for both issues. (Reply to this) (Parent)