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proteus_lives (proteus_lives) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-10-08 01:37:00

Current location:	Outer Dark
Entry tags:	char: captain america/steve rogers, creator: paul jenkins, publisher: marvel comics

Captain America Theater Of War: Ghosts Of My Country
Greetings True Believers! I picked up this Captain America one-shot today and my LCS and it's really good. The title refers to a poem that John Adams writes in 1776 during a certain congress...

The imagery is what gets me. It shows Steve Rogers as he should be. Protecting, inspiring and comfort to American soldiers and how his spirit is present with us.

It's very good and I suggest it to Cap fans. Spoilers and enjoy!

John Adams writes this poem and it follows American soldiers during important events in the country's history. Here's the poem:

"I hear a ghost of my country...
I hear a ghost of my country
Made real on this day in July
I am wrestled from tyranny's clutches
By the sound of its birthing cry
We are bound by a fair declaration
Of which I am a proud engineer
I hear a ghost of my country;
'Tis the promise of all I hold dear."

Hancock thinks it sucks and Adams isn't sure what it means. Later while Jefferson reads aloud from the Declaration of Independence Captain America appears in the room.

On the eve of battle with the British in 1814 Francis Scott Key starts scribbling the poem on a pad and doesn't know why. Then the Battle of Baltimore occurs. After the battle Key sees the American flag fluttering in the wind and is inspired to wrote the national anthem, "The Star-Spangled Banner" Cap is standing next to the flag.

Next at the battle of New Orleans in 1815 General (later President) Andrew Jackson uses the poem in a speech to inspire his soldiers. He has this cool line, "Now...Who wants to teach these British another lesson on the heart of a Kentucky rifleman?" As the British charge Cap is standing on the firing line with the American soldiers.

Next is Georgia in 1864, a scared Union soldier writes the poem in his notebook as he prepares to go into battle. He kills a Rebel soldier and it shatters him. He refuses to advance and as his commander shots him as a deserter Cap is seen over the battlefield looking sad.

Next is The Ardennes, 1945. A soldier lays dying and he writes the poem into his final letter home. As he dies, we see Cap holding his hand out to him.

La Drang Valley, Vietnam 1965. A young soldier is shellshocked as his squad is being overrun by Vietnamese forces. As people die around him, he starts mumbling the poem to himself. Cap appears as the Vietnamese come up to him. The following page really hit me.

Man, that's a powerful panel. I look at it and seeing Cap defending him? Shielding him from view? That panel is pretty much Cap to me. He shields us.

Next we see "I see a ghost of my country" written on a burning memo page floating from the WTC on 9/11. We see firefighters entering the towers and someone warns them that the building could come down at any moment.

"You can't go up there!"

"Sorry man. We can't not go up there."

I really liked the following pages.

And the last page says it all.

Man, this was a great one-shot.

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arilou_skiff
2009-10-08 10:08 am UTC (link)

I'm not really *angry* more like disappointed, tired, and exasperated.

Mind, I'm saying this as someone who loves Marvel and generally doesen't invest in DC, but Superman is, I think, *more* human than Cap. He has a wry sense of humour, family and friends that he loves, etc. I think Superman is far more human than Captain America, and this is in part *because* he's not. The fact that he's really not human and yet so very much so is what makes him work (in small doses, I'd never read Superman regularly though I pick him up occasionally)

But that's derailing the topic, what I don't like about Captain America is... Complicated. First of all I don't think he's that interesting as a person. He's bland (sometimes I think deliberately so) second, by virtue of who he is he gets turned into a political mouthpiece ("This is AMERICA! And THIS is what that means!") very often. This retards his character development. (not to mention that the provincialism is annoying, I don't care about what America means, I care about what it means to be human) Thirdly, he speechifies. I loathe speechifying. Fourth: He's Batman. Except he's not as smart and doesen't have the gadgets. He's an (admittedly very good) martial arts guy in a team that takes on gods and indestructible robots. I wouldn't mind it if it was explicitly acknowledged that in those cases his job is to be a tactical/leadership figure and not go out and punch gods in the face, but it doesn't. Fifth, I hate how people gush about him. That makes me want someone to punch him in the face repeatedly. Sixth: There is a tendency for him to be put up against a (strawman of) the issue of the day and defuse it by saying something completely meaningless and not acting it (and then punching a nazi, because that apparently solves everything. Hint: The only problem punching a nazi solves is the problem of nazis).

I have a bunch more, but that's a start.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	jlbarnett 2009-10-08 10:38 am UTC (link)
	Those are kind of valid, though I feel a little shallow complaints. Especially since one of them is about his fans and not him. Still I have to ask if you dislike people gushing about him why click on a post about him. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	arilou_skiff 2009-10-08 12:18 pm UTC (link)
	What, and avoid WHINING on the INTERNET?! :p (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ashtoreth 2009-10-08 08:38 pm UTC (link)
	It's your right as a comic fan! (Reply to this) (Parent)

	jlbarnett 2009-10-08 11:28 pm UTC (link)
	Just out of curiousity what comic characters do you like? It's hard to defend a character when what I consider the character's virtues could be what you hate about him after all. (Reply to this) (Parent)

wizardru
2009-10-08 11:46 am UTC (link)

Some of those are valid criticisms, but I think some of them are unfair. Captain America has been used a lot of different ways over the years, varying between Jingoism to social commentary to just straight superheroics. He can be used poorly, just like any other character.

Cap is usually written to be the best of us. A man who answered a calling and rose to a challenge, but as often as not its not his super-powers that make him the hero, but his determination and will. If you think he's bland, then I wonder how much of him you've actually read, other than stuff like Civil War. I'm not a huge fan of Cap, but I like him well enough.

Cap isn't Batman...he's more like Batman mixed with Superman. Cap is a super-soldier, not just a martial-artist. Bats is easily a better fighter, but Cap is super-humanly strong and tough. And honestly, trying to make the case that Cap shouldn't get involved in fighting Ultron or Loki because he doesn't have Thor's powers seems kinda odd when you don't seem to hold Batman to the same standard (because it's not Batman's gadgets that make him a threat to Darkseid...it's his brain).

As for strawmen and not acting on them? Name me another hero who abandoned his identity in disillusionment and protest over his goverment's actions. (see Secret Empire, Nomad). Cap had a black partner at a time when DC was asking if readers were 'interested in seeing more black people' in comics. Cap has repeatedly questioned the government's actions and military adventurism. But Cap is a soldier and understands that supporting fellow soldiers and disagreeing with American foreign policy are not mutually exclusive. Hell, I really didn't like Civil War, but the main thrust of the series is that Cap thinks that registration act is immoral and unconstitutional and engages in civil disobedience (albeit in a stupid way that doesn't ring true for Cap, but that's neither here nor there, since legal wrangling in Congress doesn't involve punching Iron Man).

I grant you, in recent years Cap has been elevated to Legendary status amongst many of the characters of the MU. But in truth, he started that way when they thawed him out in the 60s and he's pretty much been that way off and on for years. Cap HAS had an interesting cast and life...but in a lot of stuff (like the Invaders and in the Avengers), he's just Cap all the time, which reduces his interest level. But I still laugh when I think of what happened the first time Cap saw Star Wars. Cap is all about being human. I'm kind of surprised you feel otherwise.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

arilou_skiff
2009-10-08 12:24 pm UTC (link)

I'll note that OF COURSE a character can be writtne good or can be written badly. I'd go so far as to say there are no bad characters, only bad writers. It's just that I don't think Cap is written very well all that often.

You're right in that he isn't Batman in most of his roles. The problem to me is that he takes the *least* interesting/most annoying parts of Batman and Superman and combines them.

I think the issue is that Batman is written as a genius and even, sometimes, a superscientist ala. Richards. That's a rather different niche. Cap usually isn't. (his bag of tricks seem to pretty much boil down to "hold inspiring speech" and "throw shield").

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

alschroeder
2009-10-08 01:32 pm UTC (link)

Just curious. Did you read Mark Waid's run on Cap? In it, Cap is inspiring, etc., all the things you find tedious, but he was also a master tactician who always formulated a plan to take care of even the greatest threats. He wasn't Batman, he didn't know everything, but he was ALWAYS a master of unlikely situations, and found a way to triumph by thinking tactically---whether he was facing Onslaught's minions, or trapped in Nightmare's Dream Dimension.
If you DIDN'T read Waid's run on Cap, I recommend it. It was a good take. He wasn't portrayed as a Reed Richards or a Bruce Wayne, but he was protrayed as the consummate tactician.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	arilou_skiff 2009-10-08 01:37 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, that's sort of the kind of Cap I could actually stand in a team-setting. I'd still have problems with the rest of it, but that's, I think a good "role" for him. (Reply to this) (Parent)

starwolf_oakley
2009-10-08 03:37 pm UTC (link)

Waid didn't mind point out Cap's limitations though. And not just by putting him up against unconventional villains.

Best example: the follow up from SECRET WARS, where we find out that Cap put a few missing pieces of his shield back together incorrectly. Which means that even though Steve Rogers is a great fighter, tactician, and a heck of a nice guy, he isn't a metallurgist.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

icon_uk
2009-10-08 10:46 pm UTC (link)

Except IIRC, metallurgy had nothing to do with the fixing of the shield, it was a rather trite "If you wish hard enough the magical pixie planet powers of the Beyonders world will make things as they were", and we were supposed to be massively impressed by the fact that Cap was able to reconstruct the fragments of the shield into the shield itself because he knew the shield so well from long association.

So if he buggered up the reconstruction, it's down to him not knowing the only tool/weapon he's ever been associated with as well as we're always asked to assume that he does. That just makes him look inept.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	jlbarnett 2009-10-08 11:30 pm UTC (link)
	really? He's inept because he doesn't fully understand thec constuction of a shield that was formed by accident and was never duplicated. Seriously the thing's origin is designed for someone to pop into a lab over a sleeping scientist and use a cosmic cube to form it. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

icon_uk
2009-10-08 11:38 pm UTC (link)

No, that's not what happened.

We saw that Cap had all the pieces of the shield, after Beyonder-empowered Doom had shattered it. Cap didn't need to understand the molecular structure to reassemble it because the planet did that for him (Just as it allowed Ben Grimm to assume a human form without him understanding genetic engineering). He simply had to imagine it whole with enough willpower and it would become so. In Secret Wars he achieved it because he HAD the willpower to make it so, the Waid story would seem to imply he couldn't remember the shape and "feel" of the shield he'd been carrying with him for 40 years.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(Anonymous)
2009-10-08 06:04 pm UTC (link)

You have very good points against Cap, and I've noticed all of them at some point or another. Howewer, I must say, I only collected Cap regularly back in the eighties, and back then, he had a great sense of humor, people he cared about, a private life -something I've noticed lacking which has indeed put me off buying his series no matter how praised it's been). Yea, he was completely human and relatable. He can be larger than life when needed, but he can be naive and sensible when well written. And he refuses to acknowledge himself as better or larger than any other individual, no matter how much they gush. Maybe I was just lucky to read him in a good period, but that made him one of the top heroes in my list. And I'm not even american btw.

(Damn, this crappy thing won't accept my lj account!)

(Reply to this) (Parent)

proteus_lives
2009-10-08 06:23 pm UTC (link)

Here's the thing, your complaints could be made about every single comics character.
"but Superman is, I think, *more* human than Cap. He has a wry sense of humour, family and friends that he loves, etc. I think Superman is far more human than Captain America, and this is in part *because* he's not. The fact that he's really not human and yet so very much so is what makes him work"

I disagree. While Cap doesn't have a family, he has the same amount of friends and teammates that Superman does. His character is also more developed because he's had different relationships with different women while Superman has been with Lois for 70 years. Superman is far less human then Captain America. Superman is a messiah concept, he's never been small or weak. Cap has. Superman lectures humanity about it's flaws and weaknesses without understanding them. Superman treats humanity like a child that needs protecting and I often find him conscending. Captain America treats humanity like equals.

"Complicated. First of all I don't think he's that interesting as a person. He's bland (sometimes I think deliberately so) second, by virtue of who he is he gets turned into a political mouthpiece"

Once again, every character. It depends on the writer whether a character is interesting or not. He may be used more as a political moutchpiece but he's a patriotic WWII-era hero. It comes with the territory. But hell, the whole concept of the X-Men is "RACISM IS BAD!"

"not to mention that the provincialism is annoying, I don't care about what America means, I care about what it means to be human)"

Does that mean you hate Union Jack, Captain Britain, Black Panther, Namor, Sabra or any other patriotic character or character that has a primary meaning thread in them? What do you mean by provincialism? Do you want every character to be an international concept?

"Thirdly, he speechifies. I loathe speechifying." In every character? Including your favorites?

"Fourth: He's Batman. Except he's not as smart and doesen't have the gadgets" Not as all-round smart? Granted. But he's never needed all those toys, he gets by without them. Cap and Bats have different fighting styles. Batman is a sneaky detective while Cap is a frontline soldier.

"He's an (admittedly very good) martial arts guy in a team that takes on gods and indestructible robots. I wouldn't mind it if it was explicitly acknowledged that in those cases his job is to be a tactical/leadership figure and not go out and punch gods in the face, but it doesn't."

He's the best unarmed combatant in the MU actually. His leadership while fighting style is part of his character design. The reason he's "Captain" America instead of General or Colonel is because a Captain is the highest level of officer that sees combat. Once you get promoted above the captain rank, you're usually behind the lines. While Captains plan but still lead men into battle.

". Fifth, I hate how people gush about him. That makes me want someone to punch him in the face repeatedly." Are you talking about fans or in-universe? Because fans always gush about their favorite character and in-universe he occupies a very respected position. He's earned the respect and awe of many people.

"Sixth: There is a tendency for him to be put up against a (strawman of) the issue of the day and defuse it by saying something completely meaningless and not acting it" Once again, every character that has ever been written.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

arilou_skiff
2009-10-08 06:47 pm UTC (link)

"It comes with the territory"

Probably, but then that's some sucky territory to occupy.

"Does that mean you hate Union Jack, Captain Britain, Black Panther, Namor, Sabra or any other patriotic character or character that has a primary meaning thread in them? What do you mean by provincialism? Do you want every character to be an international concept?"

I don't hate them as much because they aren't as much used, but yes, I don't like the concept. Captain Britain is pretty cool as long as he's, y'know, not being Captain Britain. Cornell made me roll my eyes multiple times during his run.

... I kind of don't get what Namor is doing on that list, to be honest, and I have no idea who Sabra is.

"In every character? Including your favorites?"

Yes. They might not speechify enough to make me hate *them* but I still hate speechifying.

''Not as all-round smart? Granted. But he's never needed all those toys, he gets by without them. Cap and Bats have different fighting styles. Batman is a sneaky detective while Cap is a frontline soldier.''

Despite being, essentially, a normal guy. He shouldn't be able to hold his own against the kinds of opponents he does. I can stretch my suspension of disbelief to a certain extent, but not that far. Cap is a human among gods, yet he's treated like a (physical) threat. And that's annoying.

''He's the best unarmed combatant in the MU actually.''

Depends what you mean, and depends on the stats, I seem to recall Gamora being better actually (but then again, she's also superpowered)

''Are you talking about fans or in-universe?''

In-universe mostly.

''in-universe he occupies a very respected position. He's earned the respect and awe of many people.''

Just not seeing it.

''Once again, every character that has ever been written.''

Yeah, but Cap does it constantly.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

ashtoreth
2009-10-08 08:55 pm UTC (link)

Frank Miller did an interesting comparison as far as 'humans among gods'. Daredevil is *human*. He does have superdetection powers and supertraining and I'm pretty damn sure he has some kind of ninja meditation superhealing, but when he fights Namor or the Wrecker or Hulk Daredevil realizes pretty quick that he's out of his league--at that point he gets his ass beat. The few times he's beat someone out of his league (Klaw, Ultron), it's because they had a specific weakness.

When Daredevil goes up against Captain America he notes how superhumanly better Cap's body is. How lightning fast Cap's superhuman mind works strategically, altering his actions and plans on the fly, giving the impression that 'the script is with him'. If you had to compare him to someone physically, Deathstroke is closer than Batman.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	proteus_lives 2009-10-08 11:45 pm UTC (link)
	Good points. The details of the SSS often overlooked. Cap doesn't produce fatigue poisons, can run at over 30 miles per hour, bench over 800 pounds, his reaction time is 20 times higher then an average human. I've seen mentioned that his memory recall, vision and cererbal functions were enhanced to human perfection. You're right, Deathstroke is a closer match. (Reply to this) (Parent)

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