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Cullen Bohannon ([info]cullen_bohannon) wrote in [info]compass_network,
@ 2015-11-25 01:18:00

Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:!open, izzy, ~cullen bohannon, ~izzy shaw, ~jason murphy

I have a question: Did anyone announce, before they took up residence somewhere, that they were going to and where? I was under the impression that everything here was free, as long as it didn't belong to someone else first.



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[info]jasonmurphy
2015-11-26 02:24 am UTC (link)
Yes, I have.

I'm not saying he can't stay there. I don't want to know the why; it's not my business. I'm saying I think he should let them know he'll be there. A simple "Hey, I'm using this space." so people don't wonder what's going on and they can work out any problems it might cause.

Maryanne

My mom and I had to sleep in all kinds of spaces, when we were trying to hide from one of her violent johns or pimps or dealers.

We didn't do it because we thought we had a right to the space. We didn't think we were better than anyone else. I wanted to let people know what was going on, that we weren't a threat to them. But my mom thought if we talked to people, child services might take me. We didn't have all the options that people have here.

I was too young to understand why I couldn't be in my apartment anymore. All I knew was that someone could take everything away because they were bigger and stronger and more powerful. It was like with the park that we used to have in my town.

I'd like to think people are different here. That they'll talk to each other before taking anything away. That we can share our concerns and work things out together.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]maryanne_walker
2015-11-26 03:10 am UTC (link)
We aren't going to agree on this. I don't see how he's taking anything from anybody. I don't see where he's hurting anything. And I don't see why he needs to be treated any differently than anyone else.

And I stand by what I said. If the public space can't be shared, the person who is being stingy can't use it. I don't care why they're being stingy.

Jason

Seeing the ghost of my Dad brother has made things a little close to the surface to share my past with anyone else right now.

Nothing is being taken away from here, not in this case. Except for the attempt to take away his right to his privacy.

It would be one thing if he was building fortifications around say.. the church, but he's not doing that.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]izzyshaw
2015-11-26 03:52 am UTC (link)
I don't think it's too much to ask to let people know that a spot is being permanently occupied, if only to keep others from jumping to the wrong conclusions or getting nosy. It may not be something required, but it is polite.

Mr. Bohannon has had the decency to let us know he's using that bit of parkland, let's not make mountains out of molehills over the information.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]maryanne_walker
2015-11-26 08:35 am UTC (link)
I think if the person is up to letting other people know, then great. But it shouldn't be something expected, especially when no one else has done it. Ever. Not even when they're taking storefronts for whatever.

It just irritates me that people act like he's committing some crime against humanity. It makes me want to sleep in the park, naked, just to piss people off.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]izzyshaw
2015-11-26 11:43 am UTC (link)
Storefronts are one thing, parks are another. I get what you're saying, Maryanne, but little Izzy brought up a valid concern from her point of view.

I don't see where anyone outside of the mystery woman thought he was committing a crime.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]maryanne_walker
2015-11-27 12:56 am UTC (link)
I'd understand a problem if these areas weren't big enough for him to live there and other people to do whatever. But all the places that are common areas are big enough for someone to camp out if they want, or need, to. Hell even the pub has a few rooms over it. Mitchell uses them for storage, but I know of one that even has a matress on the floor.

Your granddaughter doesn't seem to keen on sharing it.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Maryanne
[info]izzyshaw
2015-11-27 03:01 am UTC (link)
She doesn't, does she? I've been getting that impression too.

I think she's seeing it as a fairness issue, and a fairly black and white one. The area near campsite is off limits for her unless her mother says otherwise, and it's likely to be a long term occupation. it's a small piece of the park, but she's seeing it as possibly the first of many.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Izzy
[info]maryanne_walker
2015-11-27 03:16 am UTC (link)
I'd understand if it was the only park on the island, and if it was a small park. But it's not. She has to share the space with the memorial, and the lake, and other things.

I hate to say it Izzy, but she reminds me of Angelica Pickles.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Maryanne
[info]izzyshaw
2015-11-27 12:37 pm UTC (link)
None of those other things have people living in them, but I do take your point.

I wouldn't go that far. From what I've seen so far she's a very sweet girl, Rhiannon and her partner were doing a good job with her. She's just going to have to adjust to Bohannon having a small piece of the park. I've invited him to Thanksgiving dinner, hopefully getting to know him a little will take the 'unfairness' out of the situation for her.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Izzy
[info]maryanne_walker
2015-11-28 06:25 am UTC (link)
The way I see it: If he's living in the park then his scent is bound to be in it day and night. Which keeps other, harder to control, things out. People tend to forget that we're out numbered by wild animals about ten to one.

Even Angelica was sweet to the adults when she wanted to get her way, it was Tommy and company she was mean to.

Thanks for doing that. I wanted to but it's wild kingdom over here with babies randomly deciding it's naked time. And when one does it, most of the rest of them do it to.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]jasonmurphy
2015-11-26 04:34 am UTC (link)
We may not agree, but don't put words in my mouth. I did not say he had to be treated any differently than anyone else. I did not say anyone was being hurt. I said I thought everyone should be willing to let people know when they're going to use an public space for permanent living, when said space is already in use. Everyone.

And I don't care why someone thinks no one has the right to know about what's happening in a park they've used for years.

Maryanne

I didn't ask anything or say anything about your past. You did say something about mine that was untrue. I had the right to correct that.

It isn't about privacy. People can see the park, they'll know someone's living there. Telling them in advance wouldn't change that. It would let them raise any concerns they have. Nothing personal - things like are you gonna be okay if my kid plays ball near your space? Is there anything my dog could get into if she gets away from me? Should we be quiet at night? That's not an invasion of privacy.

I don't know if anyone's going to do that or not. I guess no one's going to tell us if they are.

So, this is it, huh? I have to spend every minute hiding out because you don't want me in public space?

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]maryanne_walker
2015-11-26 08:45 am UTC (link)
Oh for crying out loud. I use the park. And if anyone wants to make a crime out of it I'll take a big cat dump in the sandbox. That way you have something legitimate to be pissed off about.

Did you think that wherever he is that he's helping keep the critters out of it at night? Making it a little safer for whatever kids want to go out at night.

Jason

Just making sure you weren't expecting show and tell, kid.

Think about it, do you want people questioning you, and raising 'concerns' about where you live?

I do know that people aren't doing it.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Maryanne
[info]jasonmurphy
2015-11-26 11:31 am UTC (link)
Of course. Anytime I do something that affects other people, I want to know if it's causing them concern. I live at the temple. I was invited to stay there. What else would you like to know?

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Jason
[info]maryanne_walker
2015-11-27 12:32 am UTC (link)
How would you feel if people just decided that it was a public area, and raised a fuss that you were sleeping there? Even though there's more than enough room for them to do whatever they wanted to do and for you to live there at the same time, they just didn't like it. Wanted to kick you out, and make you conform to their way of living just because they didn't like the way you were living your life.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: Jason
[info]jasonmurphy
2015-11-27 12:50 am UTC (link)
I would feel fine. i would understand their concern. I would let them know how I was using the space, what my plans were, if there was anything that would affect them in anyway, no matter how small. If I was only planning on using a small space, I'd let them know that.. I wouldn't make them wonder if I was planning on expanding. If there was anything that their kids or pets should stay away from, I'd let them know. I would never want to make anyone feel like their concerns were less important than my own. I wouldn't attack them for curiosity about a park that they used.

No one has said anything about people being kicked out. Or conforming to any one way of living. Or said anything about crimes against humanity. Please don't accuse me of such vile, hate filled words.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Jason
[info]maryanne_walker
2015-11-27 01:06 am UTC (link)
That's what happens Jason. When you expect one person to go out of their way to announce their plans to live somewhere, and if one person has objections then that one person is going to work up a crowd with torches and pitchforks to move them out. Because the other person isn't doing something that's conforming to the majority, or they're different.

It's all great and good that you think the world works that way, that you can just say 'Hey I'm living here, this is my stuff and there may, or maynot, be something in it that you don't want your kids and, or, animals getting into' and the world will be alright with that. But that can actually have worse consequences than someone just asking you to move along.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Maryanne
[info]jasonmurphy
2015-11-27 01:32 am UTC (link)
I still don't see how a quick 'hey, this what's going on" is going out of the way.

I wouldn't work up a crowd. No one on the island would. No one has ever forced anyone to conform to a majority in the time i've been here. No one has ever tried to make Jake and Neytiri live inside. No one has bugged me about being a grown man still living with his family.

I'm not talking about the entire world, or every possible world, just this island. I've had a better life here then I could have had anywhere else. The people here are good and decent, better than anyone I knew before except maybe my Mom. To compare the people on the island to people that are capable of forming a violent mob isn't right. I know you might mock me for this, but it was hurtful.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Jason
[info]maryanne_walker
2015-11-27 02:38 am UTC (link)
I'm not saying you would, but you don't know everyone here. Someone obviously got this man worked up, who's to say they wont work up a mob?

People are afraid of what they don't understand, Jason. And people who are afraid are also notorious about trying to get rid of the things they don't understand, and the things that they are afraid of.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Maryanne
[info]jasonmurphy
2015-11-27 04:37 am UTC (link)
Anyone who knows this island should be able to say. I haven't heard any talk of forming a mob. I don't know everyone but I know enough people that wouldn't join a mob. I also know that there are enough people with special abilities that could and would stop a mob.

You don't know who the someone was, you don't know their point of view, yet you're labelling them as violent person who attacks people with a mob.

Can you consider that it could have been a concerned parent who wanted to know what was happening in the park their children play in? It could have been someone who had no way of knowing he was only going to take a certain amount of space. Someone with a child that might see a tent in a park as a new play structure and want to explore it. Someone who isn't a perfect parent and knows that children wander off. Someone who wants to know if the tent locks. And if there's anything dangerous in that tent if their child were to get inside. Someone who simply wanted to talk about those kinds of issues, the ones that affect them.

It could have been the kind of soccer mom parent that doesn't let her kid spend the night at someone else's home without knowing if they have smoke alarms. The ones that are used to being able to know about everything that could possibly impact their kid. The kind that thinks it's normal to ask those questions. And since we're all from different places and times, maybe there was some kind of misunderstanding.

But does that make them violent or a bigot? Do those kinds of concerns raise to the level of fear and hatred you're describing?

Even if you don't understand those concerns, is it really enough to make you fear and hate someone? Will not understanding make you attack this person if you find out who they are?

I didn't know anything about people with powers before I came to this island. To be honest, I really didn't understand the elves and all their royalty talk. That didn't make me fear them or attack them. I didn't see anyone else attacking them either. And I wasn't the only one who didn't understand them.

If anything, it seems like you've got the problem with people. It feels like you already have a really low opinion of them, labelled everyone in the same way. That's doesn't sound like the person I met when I was with Lizzie. I don't know that you'll believe me but I liked you then.

Wanting to talk about a park is not enough for me to label someone bigoted or violent. I didn't think it would be enough for you either.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Jason
[info]maryanne_walker
2015-11-27 06:32 am UTC (link)
This man didn't know me from Adam, and he jumped to when my son went missing. When all we had to go by was the scream over the comm. He's your average human, from a world like yours where people like me don't exist. Not even in comic books, yet. He barely batted an eye when I spoke to him while I was four paws and furry, when it would have been understandable for him to shoot me.

You have someone who's obviously freaking out over someone sleeping in a tent in the park. I don't need to tell you how many soccer Mom types I had shoot at me when I wasn't big and furry. How many 'normal' types hunted down and murdered people like me.

Does it make me want to attack the person who came at him? No. But it makes me very very cautious. Especially since I have a child that's like me.

There's someone here that pretty much dateraped my wife. So that's kind of jaded my perspective of who's here, since Lizzie's vanished.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Maryanne
[info]jasonmurphy
2015-11-27 08:41 am UTC (link)
How do you know they were obviously freaking out? Is it the same way you 'knew' things about my past that weren't true?

No one went over the net to complain. I haven't heard of anyone screaming in the park or making any kind of fuss. I work at the hospital and haven't heard of anyone being hurt by a woman in the park. That was one quiet 'obvious freakout'. They must have dropped it and moved on.

He could have had his entire conversation without mentioning her. Instead he decided to bring up a past conversation and call her rude. It's like he's deliberately trying to provoke an argument. She's not taking the bait. That tells me she's a lot calmer than you give her credit for.

I'm sorry that happened to you. But you can't judge every single 'normal' person as a murderer. I'm not a murderer. My Dad's not. I could come up with a bunch of other names too.

You can be cautious but this other person can't? She can't have any concerns about a park that her child plays in without being a an evil murderer that will shoot at you?

Do people have to have hard lives to have the right to be cautious? What if something bad happened to her kid in a park once, would that make it okay for her to be cautious?

I'm sorry that happened too. You might be jaded but you haven't judged everyone on the actions of that one douchebag that violated your wife, have you?

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Jason
[info]maryanne_walker
2015-11-27 09:18 am UTC (link)
You notice he hasn't said anything to either one of us since we started. That's how I know. And I know southern men. It would take a freak out for them to say anything.

You do know a whole lot of stuff happened recently, right? And maybe he was waiting for her to rectify the situation, and she hasn't. Sounds to me that she came at him with complaints, without even introducing herself.

I prefer to err on the side of caution when it comes to the normal. Let them prove me wrong about not being a murderer, instead of assuming that they aren't.

When he's giving her no reason to be, and she is giving me every reason to be. If he approached her kid, she'd have a reason to be cautious. But from the sound of things she was alone.

It's just knocked my ability to trust people down a few pegs. Especially since I'd be judged more harshly for eating him, than he would be for violating my wife.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Maryanne
[info]jasonmurphy
2015-11-27 10:09 am UTC (link)
You know southern men like you know 'normals'. You're judging based on where he's from, and his being male, not by anything you actually witnessed.

What difference does it make if she introduced herself? Does she need to know a special code to talk to people? People here are from different times and places. Not everyone is going to act the same way. It doesn't mean they're bad or worthless. It doesn't mean that they have to be blamed and hated for being different. Being different doesn't mean that any one person is solely responsible for rectifying any situation.

My Dad certainly doesn't follow some code of manners. He's different. He's also a good man who has value to the island.

Even if she was alone, it doesn't mean that she'd never take her kid to the park. If anything, it was probably easier for her to talk about her concerns without having to supervise a kid at the same time.

Trust issues are one thing. Judging people by where they're from and their race and if they follow your code of manners is another. Hating people for being different isn't right.

Everyone shouldn't have to prove themselves to you. We shouldn't have to live in fear of not measuring up to your standards. We should all be equals here.

You don't want to be judged harshly, but it's okay for you to judge a woman for one incident, one day, in one park? For the rest of her life, she's an evil, worthless murderer?

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Jason
[info]maryanne_walker
2015-11-28 06:16 am UTC (link)
You'd be surprised how observant I am. Being southern isn't something you would understand, anyway.

Most people, even rude ass yankees would get this one. It's only polite, when coming at someone with a bunch of questions regardless of the subject, to introduce yourself first. I bet he probably removed his hat, and was Yes Ma'am, No Ma'am the whole time, in fact I know he was.

House is an exception. He has a big dick, and knows how to use it. He doesn't have to be nice. But, he would also introduce himself.

So that gives her an excuse to be rude? Because I sure as hell hope her kid doesn't have the same manners that she does.

Hating someone for being rude is a legitimate reason to hate them, if they're rude to one person they'll be rude to another. Why should I give them the chance to be rude to me?

Apparently we're not.

Because judgement where a person lives is being passed here. So someone thinks they're better than everyone else. And that everyone else should live by their standards. I just figure a little do onto others as they do onto is in order.

Don't take it so personally Jason. It's not like I'm discriminating here. Mostly everyone is labeled under the 'possible murderer or rapist' until they prove otherwise. I'm not asking anyone to go out of their way, all they have to do is not kill or rape someone. And whoever this woman is, I'm not going out of my way to hunt her down, which I could do without too much trouble.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: Jason
[info]jasonmurphy
2015-11-28 09:35 am UTC (link)
I've seen my Dad not introduce himself back in Princeton. I've seen him use fake names. I've heard him ask very personal questions and it wasn't always to get a diagnosis either.

Maybe she didn't think she was being rude. Maybe she didn't know she has to remember to follow Maryanne's law of identifying herself to ask questions when her thoughts are on the park her kids play in. I don't always introduce myself to people either.

Maybe he was cruel to her, calling her rude and making accusations as he did online. He clearly judges her harshly and wants others to do the same. Is that good manners? She hasn't done that. She hasn't said one unkind word on the net.

You don't know that any judgement was passed. Wanting to know what's happening in a park where children play isn't passing judgment. I've never heard of anyone judging Neytiri for where she lives. Or Jake. And yet, you're willing to take this man's word that it's happened now over people you've known longer. With no evidence. You're acting like she called him a bum, or kicked him, or told him he didn't deserve to be there. I don't know anyone on the island that has ever acted like that. I know a lot of people would feel horrible if accused of such horrendous things.

I know I feel horrible right now. You're telling me that after my time with Lizzie, after working at the hospital, doing intern work even while studying to be a doctor, all of that, that you see me as capable of murder and rape. That is a judgment and it's a hell of a personal one. I'd rather be asked about where I live then be called a potential rapist any day, especially by someone who might have been family if Lizzie hadn't vanished.

But you know what? I won't tell anyone else. I won't go online and complain. I won't try to make anyone judge you even though I feel terrible right now. Because I know what's it like when someone tries to turn your whole world against you. I know what it's like to be hated, ostracized and alone, as this woman will be if this man keeps at it. But hey, at least he takes off his hat and says Ma'am.

After everything the people of the island have been through, and everything they've done for you and your family, the 'normal' doctors who helped AJ after she came through the pony door, the 'normal' people that helped when Tim was missing, you see them all as capable or murder and rape - that's personal too. While Mrs. Shaw-Sully was out in her glider looking for Tim, while Dr. Cuddy was getting the hospital ready for your son, do you think they were judging you for your race and planning some kind of attack at the same time?

How does seeing everyone as potential rapists fit with your version of do onto others? How are we supposed to prove it? Do we have to make sure you have full view of our genitals at all times? I didn't judge you when I met you or ask you to prove yourself. I stuck up for you when Lizzie had trouble accepting your marriage. I told my Dad to help AJ when she was sick..fuck it. I don't think anyone else on the island did either.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Jason - [info]maryanne_walker, 2015-11-28 10:10 pm UTC
Maryanne - [info]jasonmurphy, 2015-11-28 11:29 pm UTC
Jason - [info]maryanne_walker, 2015-11-29 07:32 am UTC
Maryanne - [info]jasonmurphy, 2015-11-29 12:33 pm UTC
Jason - [info]maryanne_walker, 2015-11-30 05:16 am UTC

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