Episodes 508-510
Welcome back to our Season 5 Justin-centric marathon hosted by myself and _alicesprings. We’ve had some great comments and discussions so far and we’re ready to continue with episodes 508-510. Summaries of Justin’s scenes and some discussion questions can be found under the cut. And remember that the discussions of previous episodes are still open. You can find 501-502 HERE and 503-507 HERE.
As a reminder, while the discussion post itself centers around Justin, you are always free to discuss any characters or scenes from Season 5 that you’d like. You can tie them to Justin if you want, or simply discuss an issue/scene/character/relationship that you want to explore in more detail.
508
Justin scenes:
1. Justin’s studio/apartment with Michael, moving in. 2. The Center, making Stop Prop 14 phone calls. 3. Craig’s store. 4. Craig’s store, protesting. 5. Outside the police station with Jennifer and Ben.
1. Justin’s studio/apartment with Michael, moving in: We learn that Justin’s place is a walk-up with no bathroom or kitchen, but, hey, it has a sink! Michael is being very supportive, but mentions that Brian blames him for infecting Justin with all of these ideas that led to the breakup. Justin assures him that it wasn’t his fault and says, “There are things that I have wanted for a long time that I could never have if I stayed with him.” Justin’s sorry if he ruined Brian and Michael’s friendship, and now it’s Michael’s turn to assure Justin that Brian did that all on his own.
Again we are hearing about Justin’s wants and desires and how they don’t mesh with his relationship with Brian. Considering that the scene prior to this one involved the beginnings of the Brian/Brandon fuck-off, does anyone disagree with Justin’s assessment?
2. The Center, making Stop Prop 14 phone calls: Justin learns that his father is a supporter of Proposition 14.
Now, Justin knows his father is a homophobe, but how must it feel to him to learn that his dad is contributing money in support of anti-gay legislation?
3. Craig’s store: Justin is trying to reason with Craig and make sure he knows exactly how detrimental Proposition 14 will be to gays in PA. Craig says that’s the point, and that the, “vast majority of American’s agree that you and the others like you are a disgrace. You’re an abomination in the Lord’s eyes. But it’s your choice.” Justin vehemently replies that it’s not a choice. Craig tells him not to expect to be rewarded. Justin counters that they aren’t asking to be rewarded. They’re just asking for what’s rightfully theirs. Craig says it makes a mockery of marriage and family values. Justin reminds Craig that he didn’t exactly value marriage and family when he was out cheating on his wife. But Craig says that the divorce was Justin’s fault and not his. That by announcing he was gay he tore apart the family. The look on Justin’s face clearly shows that he knows there’s no getting through to Craig, and he leaves.
This is a very angry and frustrating scene for Justin. We’ve seen him try on several occasions to reconnect with Craig, always with the same results. Do you think he really expected anything different this time? Also note how emotionally strong Justin is here. What Craig, his own father, is telling him is that he blames Justin for the dissolution of his marriage and for breaking up the family, and that he’s an abomination. This has the potential to be emotionally devastating. But Justin shows his strength in knowing who he is and what’s right. Even with the familial component, he’s able to rise above it and walk away. Thoughts?
4. Craig’s store, protesting: Justin calls the owner of the store a, “hate-mongering bigot who wants to deny honest citizens their rights.” A cop tells the protestors that they’re trespassing. Everyone but Justin goes across the street. Craig comes out. Justin refuses to leave, and says, “I’m standing in front of your door, Dad. In front of your face. Now you can call in your troops, but I’m not going to disappear. So, what are you going to do? Hmm? Come on, Dad. Why don’t you show us your great family values and have them arrest your son.” Craig has him arrested.
At this point, it hardly seems that Justin is trying to change his father’s opinion. It’s more that he’s angry and using the opportunity to shove who he is in his father’s face. Agree or disagree?
5. Outside the police station with Jennifer and Ben: Ben and Jennifer have bailed Justin out. Jennifer’s angry and Ben’s incredulous about Craig’s actions. Justin says that he used to think that Craig would come around, but now thinks that Craig would rather seem him dead than gay. Ben, still hurting from having lost Hunter, says that Justin’s dad doesn’t know how lucky he is to have a son. Ben goes to get the car, leaving Justin and his mom alone. Jennifer says that Justin will always be her son, and he says, “I’m just sorry I fucked things up.” He explains what Craig said earlier about Justin being the cause of their divorce. Jennifer reassures him it’s not true.
Justin’s insecurity here seems very different from his earlier encounters with Craig. Do you think he really believes that he might have had something to do with the divorce? Or is it more that he just needs to hear from his mother what he already knows in his heart is the truth?
***** In this episode, we see Justin having to confront his father and his father’s feelings towards him and who he is. At times, Justin is strong and determined. He stands up to Craig and asserts himself and his position. But with his mother, he allows the personal doubt to show and seeks her reassurance.
A major theme in 508 is fathers and sons. Contrast Justin and his father against Ben and Michael as Hunter’s dads. On the one hand, you have a relationship in blood that’s about as far from a father’s love for his son as you can get. And on the other hand, you have a family forged in love that exists even over distance. And we also have mention of Brian’s father during the scene with Ted in his office, where we are reminded that Brian’s relationship with his own father went a long way towards shaping him into the fucked up man he is now.
Given what Justin has faced in this episode with his father, do you think that he’s done with him for good? Do you see Justin ever trying to re-forge a relationship with his dad again?
**** 509
Justin Scenes
1. Getting ready to do a door-to-door against Proposition 14. 2. On the street with Jennifer. 3. Justin’s studio/apartment. 4. The art show. 5. The Diner.
1. Getting ready to do a door-to-door against Proposition 14: Justin is part of a group getting ready to visit individual homes to drum up support against Prop 14. After a scene break, we see him and Jennifer at the home of an elderly gentleman who is very supportive. Turns out he has Alzheimer’s and won’t be voting.
2. On the street with Jennifer: They’re discussing Prop 14 as they return to the Center. A motorcycle pulls up next to them and the rider asks Jennifer if she’s ready. Justin asks who the guy is, but Jennifer tells him they’ll talk later. She then dons a helmet, climbs aboard and they take off. Justin is left with a look of confused disbelief on his face.
3. Justin’s studio/apartment: Jennifer is telling Justin how she met Tucker while Justin paints. Justin is…less than impressed, and making snide comments about his age. At one point, we have this exchange:
Jennifer: Well, I figured what the hell. Beats sitting at home reading “How to Survive a Divorce.” So, I said, “Yes.” And the rest is history. Justin: For him, modern. For you, ancient. Jennifer: I take it you don’t approve. Justin: I suppose a woman of your age is allowed to have a little fling, provided it’s discreet. Jennifer: Well, actually, uh, it it’s more than a little fling. We’ve been seeing each other for six months. Justin: For six months? And you never said anything? Jennifer: What was the point until I was sure it was serious? Justin: Serious? You are not serious. He’s one-third your age. Jennifer: Half. Justin: Fine, half. He’s half your age. He’s still young enough to be your s… I don’t even want to say it. Jennifer: And I don’t want to hear it. Especially from you.
Justin ignores the comment and Jennifer leaves.
So, what do we all make of Justin’s reasoning for being upset? As we’ll learn later, this is Jennifer’s first dating experience of any kind since the divorce. Is Justin upset at the idea of his mother being with anyone? Or is the age issue the real crux of the matter? If so, why? And why does he refuse to acknowledge his mother’s final comment considering the twelve-year difference between him and Brian? Justin sure seems bent on reminding Jennifer how old she is. Why does he feel the need to do this?
Also notice that Justin’s art supplies are front and center in his living space. This is much more a studio with a mattress than it is a comfortable home. Contrast this with all of the scenes we’ve seen this season of Justin at the loft. The only indication we’ve had of him working there are Rage sketches and his computer. Where was he painting? And what does it say that he couldn’t or didn’t paint at the loft? Finally, what does this mean in terms of Justin’s desire for a home. Notice how very different his space is from the loft. Did Justin ever really feel “at home” there?
4. The art show: Lindsay introduces Justin to Simon Caswell, critic for the Art Forum magazine. He’s impressed by Justin’s work and says it, “has a surprising intensity to it, especially for someone so young.” Lindsay’s thrilled, but Justin thinks he’s a cunt. Lindsay says he’s a very influential cunt.
At this point, Justin doesn’t seem at all concerned with making valuable contacts in the art world, or at least, sucking up to do so. Thoughts?
Mel and Corinne appear and Mel mentions that this might as well be a one-man show the way everyone’s talking. They saunter off, and Justin asks if Lindsay’s ok with this. She asks what choice she has.
So, we’ve had the impressed critic and now we learn that Justin’s work is the height of the show. Two clear indications that he’s very talented.
Brian magically appears, Lindsay moves away and we have this exchange:
Justin: I wasn’t sure you’d come. Brian: Neither was I. [Considers the painting.] That it? Justin: Do you like it? Brian: If I did, would that make it good? Justin: No. Brian: Would it make you like it more or less? Justin: No. Brian: Would it make you rich? Justin: No. Brian: Then, why do you give a shit what I think? [Pause.] I think it’s exquisite. You should be very proud. [Looks around the room.] It’s been a long time since I fucked an artsy type.
And Brian moves away.
Justin looks incredibly pleased when Brian tells him his work is exquisite. Clearly, he does care about Brian’s opinion, even though Brian offers it only after stating, in a very Brian-like way, that his opinion is basically worthless. And just to make sure that Justin doesn’t forget who he is, he has to mention tricking, doesn’t he?
Next up we have Tucker:
Justin: Let me guess. You don’t know art, but you know what you like. Tucker: I like Magritte, Cezanne and Johns. Justin: Hm. Tucker: I did go to college. And I also like your stuff. Justin: You also like my mother. Tucker: Yes, I do. Justin: Don’t you have one of your own? Tucker: That’s not why I like her. I like her because she’s beautiful, intelligent, sexy. Justin: Have you fucked her? Tucker: I don’t think that concerns you. Justin: As they say, 25 goes into 50 a lot more than 50 goes into 25. Tucker: Except in your case. Although to be fair, he’s not quite that old, is he? [They both look at Brian for a minute where he’s chatting up a trick.] She’s an adult, so am I. She’s free to love whoever she pleases without her child’s approval. Justin: I’m her son, and I’m an adult. Tucker: OK, then act like one.
Now who’s being cunty, Justin? So, Justin’s decided to focus on the age difference for the reason he doesn’t like Tucker. Do we buy this? Where do you think this hostility is coming from? We’ve already been reminded in the last episode what an absolute dick his father is, so it can’t be that he had hopes of his parents reconciling as some children do after a divorce. Is it just that he doesn’t want to think about his mother with anyone? Or is it truly the age gap that is at issue here?
5. The Diner: Jennifer and Justin are arguing over his behavior towards Tucker at the art show. Jennifer asks if Justin is perhaps feeling threatened that there’s another man in her life. He laughs that off. She then reminds Justin that Tucker is the first man she’s been with since the divorce and doesn’t she deserve that. And Justin says that she deserves someone appropriate, someone her own age. Of course, she reminds him of Brian, but he excuses his similar behavior by saying that he was seventeen, but that she’s his mother and should know better. Jennifer admits that at first, she had trouble with Justin seeing Brian. But later she decided that if he made Justin happy and was good to him, then that’s all that mattered. Just before she leaves she says that now it’s his turn. *****
In Justin’s terms, this episode is all about his mother’s relationship with Tucker and his inability to accept or embrace it. In scene after scene, he is rude, condescending and completely unaccepting. Regardless of the age difference between him and Brian, he is unwilling to accept this same kind of thing from his mother. Is this all there is to it? Or is there a deeper reason for his attitude? Could it be that Justin is projecting his own feelings of dissatisfaction with Brian and the break-up here? Remember that post break-up, he’s been surprisingly calm and accepting. Could there be suppressed feelings that are finding there way out when he has to face his mother’s new relationship?
On a broader scale, this episode focuses on relationships. Not only do we have the Jennifer/Tucker issue. We also see Mel and Lindsay try and navigate their in-house separation, Ted attempt to find a partner, Michael and Ben as a family, Emmett and Drew as they deal with Drew’s coming out, and Brian and Michael as Michael closes the door on their friendship. And we catch a glimpse of the non-relationship that Brian and Justin now have during the art show scene. Thoughts? *****
510
Justin Scenes
1. On the street, putting up posters. 2. The Diner, talking to Deb. 3. On the street. 4. Babylon at the Stop Prop 14 fundraiser. 5. Outside Babylon.
1. On the street, putting up posters: With Deb, Michael and Ben. They are all discussing how they’re having to fight for their rights, referring at least twice to “that asshole in the Whitehouse.” Suddenly a motorcade of Prop 14 supporters drives by shouting about protecting children, protecting Christian values and stopping the homosexual agenda. Justin and the others look completely devastated.
How must this feel to Justin and the others? They are only living their lives as who they are, and there are people in the world that actually feel the need to protect their children from them. Discuss.
2. The Diner, talking to Deb: Justin is discussing his mother and Tucker and is still hung up on the age difference. Deb’s all for the pairing, and tells Justin she’s entitled to see whomever she wants.
3. On the street: It’s evening and Justin is dealing with Stop Prop 14 posters. We see Brian’s corvette in the background. He notices Justin and watches him for a minute. Notice the look of almost complete sadness on his face. *sob* Justin notices him, smiles and heads over to the car. They banter for a bit about the benefit, to which Brian is not going. He lets Justin know that he’s heading to gay Mardi Gras in Australia instead. Justin seems equally surprised about Brian’s non-attendance as he does about his travel plans. The conversation’s over, and Brian says, in what seems to be a forced, up-beat voice, “Well, take care of yourself.” Justin replies, in a more tempered manner, “You, too.” Brian drives off and Justin watches him go.
Was Justin right in expecting Brian to be at the benefit since he donated Babylon? Do you think he was really surprised to learn that Brian wouldn’t be there? What about disappointed? And what do you think Justin thinks about Brian’s travel plans? What was going through each of their heads during this scene?
4. Babylon at the Stop Prop 14 fundraiser: Ben, Michael, Ely, Monte and Justin are chatting. Ben asks where Brian is so he can thank him for use of the club. Justin tells him Brian went to Australia for Mardi Gras. Michael says, “Figures,” and Eli or Monte (not sure which is which) ends with the parting shot, “After all, he’s slept with everyone on this continent.”
Notice Justin’s demeanor as he informs Michael about Brian’s travel plans. He’s not at all upset, and delivers the news in a very matter-of-fact manner.
Jennifer and Tucker arrive and Justin is still his pissy self about the situation. Tucker greats him directly, but Justin completely ignores him. Jennifer calls him on his attitude, but Justin remains adamant that he doesn’t support the situation.
Emmett introduces Cindy Lauper, and while she performs, we cut away, first to Brian leaving for the airport and then to Mel, Lindsay and Dusty arriving at Babylon. We then come back to Babylon… and the explosion.
Brian arrives and surveys the scene with utter disbelief. He spots Jennifer and Tucker. Jennifer informs him that Justin’s still inside and says that he’s got to find him. Brian immediately heads for the entrance. Once inside, he begins screaming for Justin amidst the total devastation. He finds Ted who hasn’t seen Justin. He continues searching, seeing bodies and hearing the cries of the injured. Suddenly, Justin appears, helping an injured man. Brian and Justin hug in complete relief. Brian asks if Justin is hurt, and he says just some scratches. Then he asks if Brian has seen his mother. Brian tells him she’s OK and outside looking for him. Emmett appears and Brian asks if they’ve seen Michael. They haven’t, and Brian continues searching, finding him outside being loaded into an ambulance. Brian takes Debbie to the hospital.
5. Outside Babylon: Brian returns, and finds Justin amidst the ambulances, fire trucks and rescue workers. Justin asks if Michael’s going to be OK. Brian says they don’t know, and they hug, almost clinging to each other and definitely not wanting to let go. And then Brain says, “I heard what happened, I tried to call you on your cell, but… you didn’t answer. [Takes a minute to compose himself.] I was… so fucking scared. All I could think was, ‘Please don’t let anything happen to him.’” He pulls Justin to him again and then, barely above a whisper, but directly into Justin’s ear, “I love you.” Brian pulls back and looks Justin in the face and says it again – still softly, but Justin definitely gets the message. He’s suddenly crying and smiling at the same time. Justin kisses him, and then Brian murmurs it one more time against Justin’s lips. We leave them as they embrace, still and cocooned against the backdrop of chaos.
***** It’s interesting that, in this episode, we have Justin participating in the fight to live his life and to love with whom he chooses. However, he’s unable to extend the same philosophy to his mother and her relationship to Tucker. Why the hypocrisy?
In the immediate aftermath of the bombing, do you think that Justin is having any kind of second thoughts about Brian and where they currently are? We’ve seen up to this point that, while Justin’s by no means enthusiastic about the break-up, he’s trying to stay positive and move forward. Since the actual break-up, he hasn’t been mad, shown any kind of resentment or been at all expectant that Brian will change. Look at his demeanor right before the bombing as he lets Ben know that Brian is going to Australia. So, given all of that, what do you think was going through Justin’s head as Brian said the words? Try not to cloud your opinion with what we know he’ll say later. Instead, think about in that moment, hearing the words that he’s wanted to hear for so very long. What’s that like for him? How does he feel about it given the circumstances surrounding it? Could he at all see it as a sign that things will be changing for them?
+++++
The events in Justin’s life during this episode arc are many and major. We have him getting his own place, fighting against homophobic legislation, warring with his father, dealing with his mother’s new relationship, being professionally recognized at the art show, and of course surviving the bombing and experiencing Brian’s verbal declaration. The backdrop here is really Justin moving on with his life. In many cases, he’s doing nothing differently than he would have if he and Brian had stayed together. But more importantly, despite the break-up and its potential for emotional devastation, Justin is strong, motivated and involved in the things that are important to him. This is quite a different Justin from his S2 self during the breakup. What makes him different now? Also, think about how these differences will serve him as we move into the final set of episodes.