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Canon question (DH)...

ensnarryed

8/5/11 06:35 pm

When Voldy had just killed Harry's parents, leaving Harry orphaned, and Dumbledore is speaking with Snape about needing to protect Harry...

Snape is refusing, telling Dumbledore that the Dark Lord is gone for good and that Harry does not need protection.

Dumbledore tells Snape, instead, that Voldy will be back.

Question:How does Dumbledore know that Voldy is not defeated for good?

It can't be the prophecy that Dumbledore heard, b/c Snape eaves-dropped on it and he is not convinced that Voldy is coming back.

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• (Anonymous)

  8/10/11 01:03 am (UTC)

  Rather off-topic (and more about Albus than Severus), however thinking about exactly when Tom had the objects that he made into horcruxes, I am left wondering just when Albus might have realized the Peverell ring was one of the Hallows.
  
  And also, just what influence it might have made on Albus to see young Tom wearing a ring with the mark of the Hallows on it.
  
  At that particular point in time (sometime after Tom's 5th year) Grindelwald is active and Albus doesn't appear to be doing anything about it. There is no telling whether Albus has an inkling as to whether Grindelwald is using the Elder Wand or not. And Albus doesn't yet know about the Potter Invisibility Cloak either.
  
  So - I now wonder whether seeing a ring with the Deathly Hallows sign engraved in the stone, being worn by a student that Albus highly distrusts might have affected Albus' finally going after Grindelwald. And does Albus actually recognize this ring as a Hallow? -- Hwyla

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  • oryx_leucoryx

    8/10/11 04:12 am (UTC)

    Since Ollivander already received at least one of Fawkes' two feathers by 1938 (we know Tom's wand was purchased that year) I think Albus already heard rumors about Gellert's wand. I agree with Terri's speculation that Albus gave Ollivander the feather is exchange for information relating to the Elder Wand, who might have it, how its allegiance can be acquired or something along those lines. At the very lest we know Albus and Ollivander interacted by 1938, and we know Ollivander was aware of Gregorovitch's boasts.
    
    What he thought when he saw Tom with the ring? I don't know if he recognized the ring as the resurrection stone or thought it was like Xeno's necklace - a piece of jewelry originally belonging to a Hallows Quester. Perhaps he thought Tom got involved with the Hallows Quest. (This could work with either identification of the ring.) So he should have been on the alert that Tom was pursuing immortality (even though the ring was somewhat of a red herring, as Tom didn't recognize the stone for what it was).
    
    An interesting question was who was the person who offered Marvolo Gaunt a nice sum for the ring back in the day (some time before Merope left home in 1925). I think it was swythyv who suggested the person may have been an agent of Gellert's.

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  • oryx_leucoryx

    8/11/11 12:16 am (UTC)

    Also: if Albus recognized the ring as the resurrection stone, perhaps that gave him confidence he could beat Gellert, because if Tom has one Hallow then Gellert certainly can't be Master of Death, no matter how much the Elder Wand added to his ability.

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    • (Anonymous)

      8/11/11 01:41 am (UTC)

      I do tend to think that Albus thought it more the sign of a 'quester' - after all, why should the stone be marked with a symbol of the wand and cloak? I tend to think that it was carved into the stone somewhere down the line (not original to the stone)
      
      However, we did hear from Krum that the symbol WAS used by Grindelwald as his own symbol - hence the reason he got so hyped up about it when he saw Xeno wearing it at the wedding. So, I think I'm going to lean towards Albus seeing it as a sign that Tom admired Grindlewald.
      
      We are not exactly sure when he began wearing it. I tended to see Horace's memory as taking place during Tom's 7th year. But he would have had the ring since the beginning of 6th. I would HOPE that IF he had been wearing it during 6th year that SOMEONE would have questioned him about it before making him HeadBoy - but as we have seen before (with James) one doesn't really have to be exemplary to become HeadBoy. -- Hwyla

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      • oryx_leucoryx

        8/11/11 02:09 am (UTC)

        Rowling's timeline for Tom's later school years is messed up. There are clues going either way. I tend to think the conversation with Horace happened before Tom's 7th year because Horace refers to him as prefect rather than Head Boy (even if the term prefect can be seen as including Head Boy/Girl, I believe Horace would use the higher rank for a favorite of his if relevant) and becaue some of the other students were visibly taller and older than Tom. With his late December birthday I doubt this would be true in his 7th year.
        
        When did Tom kill his father? Well, that depends. In GOF we are given the date of 50 years before summer 1994, before Tom's 7th year. In HBP Albus says it happened when Tom was in his 16th year - did he mean the summer he was 16 (actually his 17th year) - ie 1943, before Tom's 6th year or actually in his 16th year, ie when he was 15, in 1942?
        
        I agree with Jodel that Tom's conversation with Morfin implies Tom only learned that day that the Gaunts were Slytherin's heirs and that his father was the Muggle living next door. Since diary!Tom knew these things this places the acquisition of the ring in summer 1942. But the other 2 readings are quite plausible, with a different interpretation of Tom's interaction with Morfin.
        
        Anyway, Jodel goes on to suggest that it was the conversation with Morfin that motivated Tom to seek the Chamber of Secrets in earnest, and the experience of modifying his memory that led to his experiments in recording his own memories in the diary. Maybe.
        
        I would HOPE that IF he had been wearing it during 6th year that SOMEONE would have questioned him about it before making him HeadBoy
        
        I doubt it. Would anyone have questioned the Lovegoods? The ring did nothing to Horace's trust in Tom.

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