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The January Challenge: Lily revisited

The World of Severus Snape

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The January Challenge: Lily revisited

[info]sylvanawood
1/3/11 04:02 pm
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The Challenge for January 2011:

Lily revisited



Years ago (we've been around for a while, oh yes!)we had 'Severus and Lily' as a monthly challenge.

[info]alicekinsno1 suggested to take a closer look at Lily's character:

Maybe something that discusses the character of Lily more deeply? I'd love to see what some of your ideas are for just how Lily went from treating Snape so harshly and talking back to James, to being the stereotypical "saintly mother" at the end of her life. There's something about her personality that doesn't add up.

That is to say, how her apparently selfless decision to die for her baby makes sense in light of the way she treated Severus or even James. With possibly a side comment about how despite being so powerful and gifted she didn't really show any of that by dying pleading for her baby's life without even trying to take on Voldemort.

Please post your entries here or in a separate post. I'm looking forward to your entries.
If you have ideas for new challenges, please post them here. (This is a new list, your earlier suggestions are still in the old post).
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  • Re: Lily, Sev, Mary, dark magic

    [info]00sevvie
    1/18/11 04:23 pm (UTC)
    1) You're switching criteria. Before you were arguing that what makes a spell dark is its use to harm. Now you're speaking in terms of legality, which is not the same thing at all. Confundus is legal, Imperius is not (even though we are given no explanation why despite the similarities of the two spells). That doesn't prove anything about whether or not either spell is dark or why it is dark, or about whether or not it harms. And recall that Draco bought the cursed necklace quite legally, from a dark arts shop operating openly in the main shopping district. Illegality in the WW is not merely a synonym for dark or for harmful.

    Why are you allowed to generalize from your experience to conditions in the WW, but doing the same RE issues like parental neglect is not because these are 'fantasy books' and not comparable to the real world?

    2) RE pests: it's not illegal to use the AK on non-sentient animals, and if we believe fake-Moody (talking about an issue that anyone could go look up, so he has reason to be factual) it's even allowed for use on sentient non-humans. It's merely killing another *human being* with it that is illegal. Plus, how do you know that the WW-equivalent of a pest control company is not a specialized group of guys armed with AKs? The book doesn't say one way or another, and that possibility fits within what we do know to be possible/allowed in canon. Same with the WW abattoir system: it might be a group of people AKing animals and chopping them up. That is a possibility not ruled out by canon. We do know that wizards aren't very mechanically-oriented, so it's far more likely that whatever 'system' is in place involves more co-ordinated spellcasting than mechanized slaughter. (The system need not be large; JKR claims there are 3500 wizards in Britain, and even adjusting upwards to fit what we see in the books with real population dynamics as Jodel does only gives about 10,000, not very large at all.)

    3) We don't know for certain that nothing akin to surgery takes place in the WW; we just don't see or hear much of it. It is possible that while the vast majority of things can be healed with potions and spells, there are rare cases where physical intervention is necessary. We do know that occasional limb loss happens (Moody), and some form of amputation is not ruled out as having been the cause. So it's only an assumption that surgery is non-existent, it's not supporting evidence from canon. And Sectumspempra is not demonstrated to be by nature "very inaccurate." Quite the opposite: it depends upon the caster's precision. Severus' attack on James is quite precise. Harry's attack on Draco is wild because Harry is using the spell for the first time and in a very uncontrolled manner.

    And your personal preferences RE experimentation, while fully understandable (I agree with the sentiment), have no relation to what may or may not be the case in the Potterverse. Wizards haven't proven themselves to be a particularly warm and fuzzy, animal-friendly lot. The possibility that animal experimentation takes place in the WW fits within what we do know from canon; indeed, we see the Weasley twins come rather close to it with their playing with fireworks and salamanders (one reason I dislike them is precisely this sort of casual cruelty to animals). They are not ever called out by even the most warm and fuzzy wizard or witch for harming an animal, and the general attitude of the WW seems to be that it's fine to do as you like to animals as long as you don't upset the owner. (The outrage over the dragon in DH stands as the single exception, and I find it hard to take seriously since the characters haven't exactly been animal rights fans before that.)

    • Re: Lily, Sev, Mary, dark magic

      [info]summeriris
      1/18/11 07:58 pm (UTC)
      Well Sevvie, for the Dark Magic spells, they are illegal. But I was speculating on an answer for oryx. But speculation was all it was. Oryx posed some suggestions for the possible use of the Unforgiveable Curses and I answered her. I have said before that speculation could be fun, but no, I don't think her suggestions were very practical. They were interesting, though.

      • Re: Lily, Sev, Mary, dark magic

        [info]00sevvie
        1/18/11 08:52 pm (UTC)
        Not all dark magic IS illegal. See my point about Borgin and Burkes operating legally. Also, if dark magic is defined by its ability to cause harm: 1) why aren't far more things explicitly called out as dark magic, both in the books and/or in your theory, and 2) the cursed necklace that Draco buys would then be dark, but it is apparently quite legal to buy it, sell it and possess it, so again, not all dark magic even under your definition would be illegal according to canon. So no, your criteria switching does not hold up. Dark does not equal illegal in canon even applying your theory of dark magic to it.

        And I know you were answering oryx's question; I assumed you were not averse to other people replying however, and when I ask questions I am interested in actually hearing the other person's response to them, which is why I asked. You don't have to answer but I'm still curious what you make of any of my points/questions.

        Regarding practicality: we seem to be talking at cross purposes. You now claim you are interested in 'practicality' in the use of spell casting whereas the discussion to me had seemed to be about whether or not your theory of dark magic is supported as 'the right' theory in canon. Maybe you aren't interested in having that discussion and I and oryx just aren't getting it?

        • Re: Lily, Sev, Mary, dark magic

          [info]summeriris
          1/18/11 09:00 pm (UTC)
          I'm sorry sevvie, I didn't see your points. The page is really getting confusing. I tend to answer the direct answer to me, which comes as an e-mail. I can never find a new point on the page and when there are so many posts it can be hard to keep track. But you are correct, today I am distracted. I have to decide on what plants to order for my summer flowering baskets. I love having a great display but this year I'm torn. The new breed of pansy's that look really lovely or my old favourite, trailing lobellia. I would order both but that would be nearly 300 plants. I've already got petunias (no jokes), begonias and regular pansys ordered. 450 plants.

          • [info]shyfoxling
            1/19/11 04:01 am (UTC)
            The page is really getting confusing. I tend to answer the direct answer to me, which comes as an e-mail. I can never find a new point on the page and when there are so many posts it can be hard to keep track.

            You can track the whole post, of course, and receive notification of every comment to it in email (anon comments included), but you might find the barrage to be too much. (And without doing so it's nearly impossible to dig down and read everything everyone's said on a high-traffic post, I agree.)
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