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Jodel has a very nice analysis about what was going on behind the scenes in PS:
http://www.redhen-publications.com/Quir
I agree with a lot of it, but as a Snape fan I have a problem.
Quirrell was first an agent of Riddle’s and then possessed by him. He was working in Riddle’s interests, and trying to steal the stone.
And trying to kill Harry, on the side.
Now, in retrospect it’s clear why that fact wouldn’t much worry Dumbles. But Snape? The man who’s pledged his life to “help [Dumbles] protect Lily’s son”? Why did Snape continue to go along with Dumble’s insistence on setting a clever little trap and spending months trying to lure Riddle into it rather than getting rid of the man, after the first time Quirrell tried to murder Harry?
When did Snape realize Quirrell was Tom’s agent? When did he realize Quirrell was Tom’s possession? And why was he content to do no more than just “keep an eye on Quirrell” and interfere with such murder attempts as he spotted? I mean, keeping his cover only goes so far: what's Snape care if his reputation with Tom is intact when Lily's child is dead?
What did Snape think was going on?
Answers, anyone?
http://www.redhen-publications.com/Quir
I agree with a lot of it, but as a Snape fan I have a problem.
Quirrell was first an agent of Riddle’s and then possessed by him. He was working in Riddle’s interests, and trying to steal the stone.
And trying to kill Harry, on the side.
Now, in retrospect it’s clear why that fact wouldn’t much worry Dumbles. But Snape? The man who’s pledged his life to “help [Dumbles] protect Lily’s son”? Why did Snape continue to go along with Dumble’s insistence on setting a clever little trap and spending months trying to lure Riddle into it rather than getting rid of the man, after the first time Quirrell tried to murder Harry?
When did Snape realize Quirrell was Tom’s agent? When did he realize Quirrell was Tom’s possession? And why was he content to do no more than just “keep an eye on Quirrell” and interfere with such murder attempts as he spotted? I mean, keeping his cover only goes so far: what's Snape care if his reputation with Tom is intact when Lily's child is dead?
What did Snape think was going on?
Answers, anyone?
I truthfully believe JKR changed her mind on the date of Snape's conversion.
In several interviews the date moved around before she ever put anything in the books. Usually she tied the Potters going into hiding at around the time of Harry's Christening - that they either had the Christening while in hiding or 'rushed' the Christening, going into hiding immediately after. This made a lot more sense - as it meant Snape went to Albus at about the same time Peter became Voldy's spy. Both sometime around Sept/Oct 1980.
This gives what I see as a much more realistic timeframe - with the Potters in hiding for close to a year before Voldy finally attacks alone. It makes a great deal more sense than waiting until the child is over a year old - unless Peter's spying was all about any magic spurts Harry and Neville might have done. And true - that COULD be the case - I suppose Peter could be expected to hear of Neville's accomplishments during 'afters' at Order meetings.
It really plays out as a much more exciting story for the Potters to be hiding for so much longer - with Peter betraying their 'movements' (new hiding places) as Minerva told us. And with forewarnings coming to Albus from Snape in time to move the Potters once again. It also makes more sense of the POA clues where we heard that 1) the Potters went into hiding when Albus was warned by his spy AND 2) that Albus suggested the Fidelius when they found it so very hard to hide from Voldy (Two separate sentences that many used to insist were one - implying the Potters never hid at all until the Fidelius).
This timing also made sense of the arrests of DEs that we learn of at Karkaroff's hearing. Which I still maintain shows the DEs were speaking of Snape as the Double-Crosser that Sirius overheard (not Peter).
This timing even shows James in a better light - as he's 'bored in hiding' in the letter to Sirius, even tho' the Potters were both apparently still going to Order meeting outside their hiding spot as recently as the Order Photo.
And multiple hiding spots that keep being discovered also makes more sense as to how they could realize the spy must be a Marauder, fingering Remus.
Personally - I think JKR was so peeved when many fans stuck by Snape after Bk6 that she decided that scenario placed him in too heroic a light and so she changed the timing - which takes all those lovely clues and turns them into waste.
Instead - the Potters hide apparently in the easily known location of the Potter ancestral home and never even apparently have a close call - but decide a Fidelius is needed anyways - but only because other Order members are being killed. And without close calls, that leaves the suspicion of Remus down to his being a werewolf rather than being forced to realize it MUST be one of their closest friends.
It also downplays Voldy's evil - why wouldn't the worst dark lord in ages just kill the 2 pregnant women so the child is never even born?
Oryx - I know you disagree on this with me. And while you have come up with a scenario that works for you - it doesn't work for me. They know the sex of the child because they presume it based on the Prophecy. However, there isn't any reason to believe magic didn't have a way to know the sex before birth. After all, in the REAL world that was, since the middle ages, one of the main reasons someone might go to see a hedge witch or gypsy fortune teller - to find out whether the child would be an heir or not. And Potterverse IS concerned with heirs.
I'm not trying to convince anyone out of Oryx's timeline - and I agree it might be right. I only say that for me - it is an open question. Snape turned in winter. Either '79-'80 as he turns 20 or '80-'81 as he turns 21. -- Hwyla
Right, I was not disagreeing that they spent quite some time in hiding before they apparently decided to go with the Fidelius as a last resort. But that's the time between Severus's warning and the murder, not the time between the prophecy and Severus's warning, which I thought is what we were talking about. I am not suggesting that Voldemort held onto this for a year and a half and only started going after the Potters shortly before Halloween 1981. I mean that we should not have it be too long after Harry's birth before Voldemort has decided to target them.
And Sept/Oct 1980 isn't terribly unreasonable for that, although I think the weather/scene clues in the hilltop scene, especially the leafless trees rather than seeing changed leaves still on them, speak of later in the year (late November, or December).
This timing even shows James in a better light - as he's 'bored in hiding' in the letter to Sirius, even tho' the Potters were both apparently still going to Order meeting outside their hiding spot as recently as the Order Photo.
Which must therefore be some time before that letter, although it could be shortly before. It's possible that JKR didn't mean for that letter to imply Fidelius, although it's hard to think what else might mean James was literally stuck in the house (so, her date/math problems, and all).
They know the sex of the child because they presume it based on the Prophecy. However, there isn't any reason to believe magic didn't have a way to know the sex before birth.
But they cannot know that the child will fulfill the date part of the prophecy - the end of July - until he has already been born. So if a target has been identified, then we must chronologically be after his birth. That means that the winter of '79-80 is out.
*sigh* YES, I know. I get the feeling we're actually agreeing with one another and not realizing it.
The average age for a baby being christened in Britain seems to be about seven months (judging from a quick survey of fourteen examples mentioned on Google!), so if she means that the christening was "hurried" in the sense of being rushed into that means it was prior to February 1981, and Snape had already warned them about the security leak and the threat from Voldemort by that point.
A hurried christening does not signify that the Potters were warned prior or even shortly after Harry's birth if it is common for Brits to have christenings several months after a child's birth.
Christenings 'traditionally' (historically) are when you NAME a baby. Hence the term 'christening'. Until the child is christened he literally is not 'named'.
Wizards in Potterverse are not pagans. Note that Harry's parents rated a churchyard burial (as opposed to a graveyard unconnected to a church) along with quite a few other apparent wizarding families. It is most likely this very same church to which they took Harry for his christening.
And an unchristened baby who died could not be buried in a churchyard. It is not really so terribly long ago that waiting a week to christen the child was horrific. I may be wrong, but I think I remember this from Tess D'Urbervilles? But I would guess it was similar in the early part of the 20th century even - before infant mortality rates improved.
But specifically, Albus believes in some form of afterlife and he knows a prophecy might apply to either Harry or Neville and he apparently allowed the eavesdropper to leave to spread word of this to Voldy. In other words, he's quite aware that Voldy might try to kill one or both of these kids. It's bad enough that he doesn't send the parents into hiding until Snape converts - but after all - Voldy has to try for the kid to be marked. But he certainly ought to suggest speeding up the christenings just to be sure the boys could have a christian burial if Voldy succeeds.
Also - any idea whether the seven months before a christening is a statistic of current day or a statistic of 1980. The 80s saw a big change in much of Britain - especially in regards to aristocracy vs yuppies and the 'punk' era of the late 70s. Lily and James were mainstream - they would be more likely to be tradionalists in 'some' things. And I think James' first heir would be one of those things -- Hwyla
Christenings 'traditionally' (historically) are when you NAME a baby. Hence the term 'christening'. Until the child is christened he literally is not 'named'.
Wizards in Potterverse are not pagans. Note that Harry's parents rated a churchyard burial (as opposed to a graveyard unconnected to a church) along with quite a few other apparent wizarding families. It is most likely this very same church to which they took Harry for his christening.
And an unchristened baby who died could not be buried in a churchyard. It is not really so terribly long ago that waiting a week to christen the child was horrific. I may be wrong, but I think I remember this from Tess D'Urbervilles? But I would guess it was similar in the early part of the 20th century even - before infant mortality rates improved.
But specifically, Albus believes in some form of afterlife and he knows a prophecy might apply to either Harry or Neville and he apparently allowed the eavesdropper to leave to spread word of this to Voldy. In other words, he's quite aware that Voldy might try to kill one or both of these kids. It's bad enough that he doesn't send the parents into hiding until Snape converts - but after all - Voldy has to try for the kid to be marked. But he certainly ought to suggest speeding up the christenings just to be sure the boys could have a christian burial if Voldy succeeds.
Also - any idea whether the seven months before a christening is a statistic of current day or a statistic of 1980. The 80s saw a big change in much of Britain - especially in regards to aristocracy vs yuppies and the 'punk' era of the late 70s. Lily and James were mainstream - they would be more likely to be tradionalists in 'some' things. And I think James' first heir would be one of those things -- Hwyla
There is no indication in canon that the Longbottoms were ever in hiding, or that they knew they were threatened because of Neville (rather than because of their role as Aurors and Order members). It isn't even clear if the Potters knew they were being targeted because of Harry rather than because of their own roles as order members, but at least they knew they were being targeted specifically. It is entirely possible that in 1981 the only people who knew of the prophecy were the brothers Dumbledore, Tom, Severus and the relevant Unspeakables.