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Snape and His Women

The World of Severus Snape

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Snape and His Women

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I'm mainly a slash fan, and of Snupin in particular, so contemplating the topic of Snape and His Women is something new for me, but it was interesting looking at Snape from a different point of view...


The most popular het Snape pairing seems to be Snape/Hermione, and I can certainly understand why. Unlike Ron and Harry, she doesn't hate Snape, but respects his abilities and his loyalty to the Order, despite the harsh treatment he's given all of them, and at times, her in particular. This is partly due to her trust in Dumbleore: since Dumbledore has faith in Snape, Hermione also believes in him unswervingly, at least until the apparent murder in HBP. Still, most teenagers would have trouble overlooking the more unpleasant aspects of Snape's behavior and personality, no matter how brave or loyal a man he was, especially when that unpleasantness is directed towards them personally. But even after Snape drives Hermione to tears in GoF with the "I see no difference" remark, she doesn't seem to hate him or hold a grudge. So after the war is over, I could see her accepting his true loyalties more easily than most of the other characters, and since she never hated him, there's no impediment to a possible friendship or romance--assuming that Snape survives, of course.

Hermione is also very intelligent and has a thirst for knowledge, which perhaps gives her something in common with Snape, and also gives her the ability to challenge him and win his respect. I can't really see Snape being attracted to to someone who's pretty but brainless; I think he'd want a partner who could keep up with him and be his equal. I don't think that Hermione is quite there yet, simply because of her youth, but she certainly has the potential to be--I could see them possibly becoming lovers several years after the war is over, when she is a young woman and no longer a child or his student. (That would also take care of my teacher/student imbalance of power squick, which also applies to Snarry in slash fandom.)

Although...I do recall reading a couple of fanfics where Snape regards Hermione with disdain, not just because she's a Gryffindor and Harry's friend, but because her good grades are due to rote memorization and following the instructions of her textbooks without showing any creativity. That does seem to be in character for Snape, considering that he modified and improved on the potion formulas in his textbook when he was Hermione's age. On the other hand, Hermione does show some creativity as the series progresses, such as when she uses the Dark Mark as inspiration for the D.A.'s enchanted coins. I think that type of creativity will probably continue to develop as she gets older, so I could see her working with Snape someday as an adult, and maybe a professional relationship could lead to a more personal one--perhaps romantic, but I could also see them developing a platonic friendship with a lot of good-natured Gryffindor vs. Slytherin bickering.

Their personalities are pretty opposite, and I could see her zealous optimistic idealism grating on Snape, but on the other hand, there's that old saying about how opposites attract. Perhaps her idealism would balance out his cynicism and vice versa. And realistically, the things that Hermione experienced during DH--being tortured, seeing friends and allies killed in battle--are likely to change her, although we don't really see the effects of this in canon. I think that a more troubled, less naive Hermione would be better able to understand and empathize with Snape.

***

One Snape het pairing that I really like a lot is Snape/Luna. (Again, I prefer it when Luna is an adult when they get involved). Luna, for all her dreaminess (or perhaps because of it?), lacks the prejudices of most of the other Hogwarts students, and I think that of all the characters, she'd be the most able to see past Snape's snarky, bitter exterior to the real man within, and the one most able to accept him as he is. As I once told a friend, she lives in her own little world, but she can also be keenly perceptive at the same time. Like Snape, she has suffered the loss of a loved one and she knows what it's like to be an outcast--not quite in the same way, of course, but I think there's enough common ground for understanding. Unlike Snape, Luna hasn't allowed her pain to embitter her, and I can see her being able to help Snape heal with her gentle, eccentric sweetness and kindness. The first time I encountered a Snuna story, I thought that it was a very odd pairing, but one that worked surprisingly well.

This Snuna drabble by [info]bronze_ribbons, and this ficlet by [info]bluestocking79 are great examples of how well I think the ship works.

***

In my previous essay on Snape and His Men, [info]territesting made an interesting observation about how there are numerous Snape/OFC het pairings, but hardly any Snape/OMC slash pairings. I know there are some, but they're relatively few, at least where Snape/OMC is the main pairing. (I've seen Snape/OMC in conjunction with canon character ships, where the OMC is there to add a little spice or some complication to Snape's relationship with a canon character--for example, Snape and Lupin having a threesome with a hot guy that they pick up, or Snape being involved with another man before he gets together with Lupin or Harry or whomever.)

I thought that was a really interesting observation, and I've been wondering why the disparity? Could it be self-insertion on the writer's part? Perhaps in some cases, but certainly not all OFCs are of the Mary Sue variety. Terri suggests that perhaps a happy life and relationship are a reward for Snape on the author's part, but then why do slash writers not reward Snape with a loving OMC partner? I wonder if it has something to do with a lack of well-developed female characters in canon, particularly ones about the same age as Snape? Narcissa is the only female character I can think of offhand who is a contemporary of Snape, and she's already married to Lucius--which of course need not necessarily be an obstacle in fanfiction, or at least, only a temporary one. Still, if one wants to write Snape in a romance with a woman his own age, the writer's options are limited unless they invent their own characters. There are canon female teachers and Order members whose ages aren't stated, such as Sinistra or Charity or Emmeline Vance, but since we know little about them other than their names, for all practical purposes they might as well be OCs, as Terri says. There seem to be more male characters in the books who are close to Snape's age--Lupin, Sirius, Lucius, and possibly Kingsley (although his exact age isn't stated)--which gives slash writers more potential pairings to choose from.

I'm sure that's not the only answer, so if any of you readers out there have any thoughts about this, I would love to hear them.

***

I was digging through my old recs and essays, and in my Snape and the Muggle World essay, I came across a rec I made for the Wanderlust series by [info]lithiumdelusion and [info]bluestocking79, which is a crossover between the Harry Potter series and the Pet Shop of Horrors manga series. The stories feature Jill, a police detective from the PSOH series, as a potential romantic partner for Snape, and that reminded me of another reason why a writer might want to create an OC love interest: in order to give Snape a partner from outside the British wizarding world, or outside the wizarding world altogether, who doesn't know Snape's history and hasn't been biased by the WW's prejudices and Snape's reputation as a Death Eater. They might eventually learn about the things that Snape has done, both good and bad, but it won't have the same impact on them as someone who's known Snape previously and has lived through those events, such as Harry or Hermione, and they would be able to view Snape more objectively and develop a relationship without any past baggage getting in the way.

Of course Jill isn't actually an OC; she is a canon character, but it's a canon outside of the HP canon, so the same principle applies. This isn't to say that all OFCs are characters from outside the wizarding world, of course, but it provides fanfic writers with an option that isn't available in canon. (Although I'm still not sure why we don't see more of this type of OC in slash, but the topic is Snape and His Women, so I don't want to dwell overmuch on the slash aspect.)

I think Jill is a great match for Snape--as one might expect from a cop, she has a strong sense of justice, and also of compassion. She runs into him by chance in the Muggle world, where he has been hiding, and when he accidentally drops and loses his wand, she is determined to return it to him, no matter how difficult a task that might be. She can also see from his eyes that he's in a great deal of pain, even though she initially doesn't know why. When she finds out how he was branded a traitor and treated like a scapegoat in the wizarding world, that only makes her all the more determined to return the wand to Snape because he considered it "important enough to carry away with him from a world he knows he can’t return to. He deserves it back." With her determination, she's not the type to allow herself to be pushed away by Snape, and she has enough patience and compassion to eventually convince Snape that he can love and be loved in return.

It's a great series, and I only wish it was longer. Snape losing the wand, Jill's finding of it, and her efforts to track down its owner make up the prologue and first three chapters, and then the story skips ahead in time to a series of short but lovely drabbles that show us glimpses of Snape and Jill's romance and eventual married life.

***

Snape's relationships with women need not only be romantic, of course. [info]red_day_dawning already discussed this in her post, but I've always pictured Snape as having a sort of friendship with McGonagall--not the best friends type of relationship that Harry has with Ron and Hermione, but a respect for each other as colleagues and a friendly rivalry with their running bet over which of their Houses will win the Quidditch Cup. Her contempt for Snape in DH made some fans think that she never really liked or trusted Snape, but it could also be explained by a deep anger at feeling betrayed by a friend that she trusted. I like to think that she felt very remorseful when she found out the truth about Snape's loyalties, and in a story where Snape survived Nagini's bite, it would be interesting to see how she would go about trying to mend their friendship. For Snape's part, I think that he would say that the whole point of his act was to have everyone believe that he was a traitor, but at the same time, I think that he would secretly feel hurt and resentful that McGonagall and everyone else believed it so easily.

Narcissa is also someone I can see being a friend to Snape. In canon, I don't believe that they're especially close; in HBP, she refers to Snape as a friend of Lucius rather than "our" friend, so while they're probably friendly towards each other, their connection is primarily through Lucius. However, post-war, I could see them developing a closer friendship, since I think she would be deeply grateful that he'd saved Draco, even if he had turned out to be working on Dumbledore's side. (It would help that she doesn't have any loyalty left to Voldemort by the end of DH.)

There's a great Snupin fic called Unique in All the World by McKay that has a good portrayal of friendship between Snape and Narcissa. Snape is in love with Lupin, and believing that Lupin doesn't return his feelings, enlists Narcissa's help in carrying out a complicated scheme in which he tricks Lupin into marrying him. They're both lonely (in this story, Lucius is dead), both outcast due to their past connections to the Death Eaters, and they don't have anyone else to turn to but each other, so Narcissa provides advice and a sympathetic ear. Narcissa is motivated partly by boredom--Snape's scheme provides a substitute for the juicy gossip she used to get from her former circle of friends--but she seems to sincerely care about him as well. Of course the main focus is on the Snupin romance, but the Snape/Narcissa friendship is a major part of the story, and provokes a conflict in the romance when Snape is seen with Narcissa and Lupin suspects that they're conspiring together against him (which they are, but not in the way that he thinks) and/or having an affair.

Narcissa and Snape get along so well in the story that it made me think that in a different type of story, a widowed Narcissa and Snape could form a friendship that develops into romantic love. Which could have some interesting complications in the form of Draco, who might or might not be willing to accept Snape as a stepfather. Even if he likes Snape as a teacher and family friend, he might still feel resentful or just uncomfortable about having Snape replace his father, and it would be interesting to see how the three of them resolve things.
  • As much as i adore both Snape and Hermione I don't particularly like the pairing. Having said that, I confess I read stories with this pairing quite often - mainly because many SS/HG writers do such darn good characterization of these two favorite characters. And although I don't actually *like* the pairing, I don't actually *hate* it either (I never read snily, for instance.) I can see why the pairing is plausible - their brilliance does set them apart from others, and Hermione has the perception and maturity to appreciate Snape's qualities. And it can be a quite satisfying pairing to read - one can imagine a fulfulling relationship for them together.

    I do have a fondness for Snuna - as you said, she's an extraordinarily perceptive person, and I would imagine she could see past the external behaviors that might repel others.

    I have noticed that there are many Snape/OFC stories - I no longer read any, having found all too often that the OFCs are predominantly Mary-Sues featuring in poorly-written stories, so perhaps i'm missing out on some really good stories. Snape/OFC pairings have become one of those "press the back button" triggers for me, like Snape wearing leather pants, or Harry righteously putting down Dumbledore, the Minister and all adult authority figures so quellingly that they simply quietly submit to the greater judgement and insight contained in his teenage tantrum. It's become a reflex rejection - for all I know, there may be countless brilliant stories where Snape struts around in skin-tight leathers and clubbing gear, and perhaps many well-written stories featuring OFCs - my readings most likely do not reflect the stories available.
    • I also like Snape and Hermione as characters, but don't really see them paired together in my mind, although I do picture them eventually becoming friends post-war when Snape has mellowed slightly and Hermione has gotten more mature. I don't really have any objections to the pairing--they seem like they'd make a good match in theory, but something about it just doesn't spark with me for some reason. Just personal preferences, I guess. But a good author can make me believe in pairings that I normally avoid, and I've read some SS/HG fics that I really liked.

      Luna: I just adore her! If I had to pick a Snape het OTP, Snuna would probably be it.

      Snape/OFC: I think there's so many of them out there that it can be difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff, so to speak. Terri had a few recs in her comment on the Snape and His Men post, and I recall that one of Snapecast's early episodes had a Snape/OFC segment with some recs. It's not something I normally seek out, although I know I've read a few that were recced here or written for a Snapedom challenge. I remember that I really liked Ride of the Valkyrie, which mary_j_59 did for Summer Fest last year, based on a character by Sigune.
  • Thought-provoking essay, and I agree with you about the Snape/OFC side of things. Although I do like a good Snape/Hermione pairing, the age-squick factor is something of a turn-off; so I sat down one day and wrote a story where they become friends *after* Snape's supposed death, and where there is an OFC involved with Snape. If anybody would like to read it, it's at this link:

    http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3811011/1/Back_to_Basics

    It's not a romance, as such, more what I'd call a "friendship-fic". And it's canon! (In a certain light, for a given degree of canon ... )

    As people who've read my stories know, I'm an avid Snilly shipper, and love good fanfic with TeenSev and TeenLily. I wish there were more of those!

    However, I can't see Narcissa and Snape together, somehow: I feel that Snape would respect the fact that Narcissa is the wife of a friend he was forced to betray.

    And as for Snuna, I don't know, I just can't get my head around Luna as an adult, so there is a certain squickiness for me in reading fanfics about them together. As a consequence, I've never written Snuna.

    Alison
    • I'm an avid Snily shipper as well, also favoring TeenSev and TeenLily... preferably diverging into some kind of AU so that there can be a happy ending...cause I'm a sap like that. ;) I wish there were more of those too! I'm currently writing one (a long series), so eventually there will be at least one more to add to the Snily pile.
    • The age-squick thing is a factor for me as well, which was why I never got into Snarry and Snape/Hermione, so it's a bit odd that I like Snuna so much, but bluestocking79's great drabbles really brought the ship to life for me.

      Narcissa: yes, I can see how his betrayal of Lucius would be a problem, even if Narcissa forgave him. I would really love to see how Draco would react to that relationship, though, but in that case, maybe it would be more of a father/son type of story instead of having the emphasis on the Snape/Narcissa romance.

      And thanks for the link! I read the story and really enjoyed it. It's nice to see Snape content and at peace, but without having lost his snark, and I thought that he and Hermione were both very much in character--a really nice friendship fic. I also loved the bit about Hermione's beaded bag holding a 3-foot high teddy bear! ^_^

  • I can see why people put Hermione with Snape, although I'm not a shipper of that, due to the sizable age difference and student/teacher thing. I try a SS/HG fic every now and then, though, because I could see how it could work... On that subject, I actually think that Snape and Hermione have a pretty similar personality type (in terms of MBTI), which might make them too alike, but would give them common ground. I tend to agree with the fanon opinion that Snape is an INTJ and that Hermione is a ISTJ. However, I also agree that Hermione is certainly more optimistic than Snape...and that would grate him.

    I love the character of Luna, so I'm interested in seeing what could be done with that ship, even though it has the same problems of age gap and teacher/student squick as SS/HR, for me. The reasons you like Snuna are the reasons that interest me in it, though...I'll have to check those recs out. :) ...and Snuna is fun to say. ;P

    Ah, Snape/OFC...although I haven't found much in the way of these that I really groove on (including Sinistra, Charity or Emmeline Vance pairings, which are pretty much OFC, like you said), if I wrote a het fic with anyone other than Lily for Snape, I'd be hard pressed to think up anything other than Snape/OFC as an alternative...at least if I wanted to put him with a contemporary. Oh, I guess he could be put with Mary Macdonald...but it would be the same as Sinistra and so forth...basically OFC.

    I love the idea of a Snape having a platonic relationship with McGonagall, and figure that they were friendly rivals and respected colleagues, with a dash of mentor/student remaining (since McGonagall taught Snape when he was a student). I'd love to see a fic chronicling Snape's early teaching days and how his relationships with his previous teachers turned colleagues would have progressed. Maybe I'll just add that to my plot bunny pile. Yes, I think I shall. :)
    • The age gap and student/teacher thing tends to keep me from getting into Snarry and Snape/Hermione, but somehow Snuna became the exception to the rule for me, and I can't really explain why except that the fics I came across were just so awesome. And it is fun to say: Snuna Snuna Snuna! ^_^

      I've often wondered how Snape handled his early teaching days, working with colleagues who had been his teachers, and teaching the older students who probably still remembered him from his "Snivellus" days. I would definitely love to see a fic about that!
  • Considering that the first guy Hermione dated was described almost exactly like a younger version of Severus isn't it obvious that if Hermione were to fall for an older man it will be Severus? :) And she does have his attention in canon - perhaps he saw potential for her to grow into an interesting woman.

    Whatever Severus might feel for Hermione, it would be out of character for him to act on such feelings while she was his student and under his responsibility - unless there were some compelling circumstances. This pretty much invites assorted forced marriage scenarios (not just the Marriage Law variety) or magical connection and sex magic scenarios.

    Alternatively something happens that changes the way Severus sees their relative positions. They become more comrades-at-arms or research partners than a teacher-and-student. Or the perceived relative power is reversed because Severus is incapacitated by injury and depends on Hermione's care or some legal restrictions are placed on him (though Hermione as Severus' guardian or parole officer is typically a post-school scenario).

    Then there are fics where Severus and Hermione develop a close but not romantic relationship while she is at school - either she is his assistant, or he is assigned to teach her defense or Occlumency, or she seeks his advice in these or other topics or they are assigned to work together for the Order. This relationship may acquire a romantic nature at a later time.
    • Ah yes, the old forced-marriage scenario! Heehee!

      I've read SO many of those, to varying degrees of skill, so I tried one myself, which looks at what would have happened had Voldemort won and Snape managed to keep the truth of his allegiance from him, so remained favoured.

      It's not so much forced marriage as forced concubinage, and is posted to the link below if anybody is interested in having a look:

      http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4271172/1/Whose_Side_Are_You_On

      Unusually for me, this story actually spawned a sequel (I hardly ever write more than one-shots) and is here:

      http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3832087/1/Inside_Outside_Hidden_Away

      As to Hermione-as-potions-assistant, I'm afraid I just can't see it. I feel that Snape would be far too much of a private person to ever work particularly closely with anybody. I'd imagine it'd probably be excruciatingly uncomfortable, so I've never written such a scenario.

      And yes, I agree with you about Hermione dating Victor Krum. I wonder why JKR did that? Given that Victor was also rather ambiguous in his loyalties, (a rival school, then being Confunded into hexing other contestants in the maze) he is extremely like a younger version of Snape. Although not so much in the movie-verse -- wow! Very yummy, but it's his friend who's beside him when they all march into the Great Hall that I think resembles a TeenSnape!

      Alison
      • As to Hermione-as-potions-assistant, I'm afraid I just can't see it. I feel that Snape would be far too much of a private person to ever work particularly closely with anybody. I'd imagine it'd probably be excruciatingly uncomfortable, so I've never written such a scenario.

        I don't think he would choose it willingly, but if Dumbledore made him? Suppose Dumbledore realizes how overworked Severus is and has Hermione perform some of his routine duties such as brewing the more simple potions for the hospital wing or read the essys of the younger students (say DADA essays of students in year 1-3, if the story is HBP-compliant)?

        Severus as Hermione's private defense tutor during HBP is almost a cliche of the ship, explaining how Hermione's battle performance improved from the Ministry battle to DH. With Harry obsessing over Draco and Ron spending much time with Lavender Hermione spent a lot of time out of Harry's view that year.
      • You know, if the wizarding world experienced a baby-boom after the first war, the years that were 1-3 in HBP must have been huge (maybe ~150 students per year, if ~100 was typical before the war, based on the students of Severus' year sitting for OWLs). With all his unique duties (spying, watching Draco, watching Harry, brewing) he may have needed help reading those essays.
    • Considering that the first guy Hermione dated was described almost exactly like a younger version of Severus isn't it obvious that if Hermione were to fall for an older man it will be Severus? :)

      Haha, how did I miss that? ^_^ I never thought of it that way before, but now that you mention it, I can see the resemblance!

      I agree that Snape isn't the type to have a relationship with a student under normal circumstances. I do like the last scenario you mentioned, where Snape and Hermione develop a platonic closeness that can develop into romance later.
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