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We all remember the great Snape debates before DH came out. About where his loyalties were as of the end of HBP, when they changed if ever, how many times they changed. I think we agree that DH settled this question (even if we don't know the exact time-point we know which events triggered the turning points in his path). Another question was how far he went as Death Eater. After DH the consensus in this forum seems to be that canon suggests either at that he did not go as far as killing, or that if he did he fully repented for such killings and healed his soul to the extent that is possible. It is clear from canon that whatever he was as a Death Eater, the man we see during Harry's Hogwarts years is a man with a strong conscience, with a clear view of right and wrong (despite having to act on the edge due to his role as a spy), who does not make light of having to commit harmful acts for a long-term beneficial goal.
But even without ever killing anyone directly, with his own hand/wand, there is much he could have done. The most obvious is the brewing of poisons and other harmful potions that were then administered to innocent victims by others. Then there is the invention of new harmful, potentially lethal spells, and teaching such spells to other DEs, thus resulting in injuries and deaths among their victims. I think the worst I have seen in fanfics is Mengele!Snape - Snape in his DE days using captives (mostly Muggles) to test properties of newly invented potions. Some scenarios get extremely gruesome, with a team of DEs at Snape's command cutting through a still living victim so that Snape could observe damage to internal organs as it took place.
So my question is, would knowing something like that change anything in your attitude to Severus Snape? Is his complete repentance enough for you as a reader to disregard anything, however cruel, he may have done in his dark period, or would the thought that this was a man who may have been capable of such horrors disturb you enough to feel you cannot forgive him completely? Do you think a man who had commited such actions is capable of abandoning them for good or would he always be at risk of backsliding?
But even without ever killing anyone directly, with his own hand/wand, there is much he could have done. The most obvious is the brewing of poisons and other harmful potions that were then administered to innocent victims by others. Then there is the invention of new harmful, potentially lethal spells, and teaching such spells to other DEs, thus resulting in injuries and deaths among their victims. I think the worst I have seen in fanfics is Mengele!Snape - Snape in his DE days using captives (mostly Muggles) to test properties of newly invented potions. Some scenarios get extremely gruesome, with a team of DEs at Snape's command cutting through a still living victim so that Snape could observe damage to internal organs as it took place.
So my question is, would knowing something like that change anything in your attitude to Severus Snape? Is his complete repentance enough for you as a reader to disregard anything, however cruel, he may have done in his dark period, or would the thought that this was a man who may have been capable of such horrors disturb you enough to feel you cannot forgive him completely? Do you think a man who had commited such actions is capable of abandoning them for good or would he always be at risk of backsliding?
Re: Scraping the bottom of the barrel
Unfortunately, he didn't. Calling an eleven-year-old with severe self-esteem issues an 'idiot boy' in front of all his friends is not the best way to build up his confidence. None of my teachers have been nearly as vindictive as Snape, but being embarrassed in class just isn't fun.
Neville always did worse when Snape belittled him, not better, and therefore continued to 'endager' people around him. If Snape had been interested in helping Neville, he wouldn't have started 'bullying him worse than ever' after the Boggart lesson, where Neville actually achieved something and was rewarded for it. That doesn't strike me as a good message to send.
We see Neville's confidence spike occasionally in books 1-4, but he only really starts getting past the clumsiness phase when he joins the DA - i.e, when he has a teacher who encourages him and won't insult him in front of everyone for making a mistake.
'did Severus really single Neville out and humiliate him on purpose'
He was Neville's Boggart in a world that included Bellatrix, Dementors (who he had experienced firsthand by then), giants, werewolves, trolls in school dungeons, and some of his own more worrying relatives. He had to do something to get that top spot.
'What does the fate of Neville's parents has to do with anything?'
It's just a pretty sucky way to grow up, especially with a family pressuring you to live up to their reputation and trying to 'shock' magic out of you, often near-fatally. And 'blunder incompetently' seems kind of harsh for a fictional eleven-year-old with all the hanidcaps I've listed above.
Oh, and the Rowan Atkinson vid? Still reaching.
Re: Scraping the bottom of the barrel
Re: Scraping the bottom of the barrel
Re: Scraping the bottom of the barrel
I just don't agree with smallpotato's claim that anyone who dislikes (not 'OMG Snape ruined his life', just 'dislikes') the way Snape treats Neville is overreacting.
Re: Scraping the bottom of the barrel
But aren't we way off topic here? The question isn't whether Severus was ultimately good or bad, a hero or not. The question was: what would you be willing to forgive him? I am, in the end, willing to forgive him his treatment of Neville, though I think it wrong. I do wish there had been some reconciliation between them, because Neville is my hero, really. But that's not the book Rowling was writing.
Re: Scraping the bottom of the barrel
However, in the bigger picture, the Hogwarts educational system in general doesn't seem particularly fair or protective of the students. Dumbledore must know in general how Snape treats the students, even if he isn't aware of every individual incident, yet he does nothing to stop it--either because he condones it, or he's willing to overlook students being mistreated for the "greater good" of keeping his spy close at hand. He gives Harry the invisibility cloak, knowing that he'll use it to sneak around the school, break the rules, and probably put himself in danger. McGonagall locks Neville out of Gryffindor Tower in punishment for leaving the password lying around, even though there is a murderer at large on the school grounds (at least, at this point, they still believe Sirius to be a murderer). Hagrid exposes his students to dangerous creatures, with few if any safety precautions. Students are given detention in the Forbidden Forest late at night when someone or something in the forest is killing unicorns--not to mention the dangerous creatures that already live there.
I think Snape's mistreatment of Neville is just one small piece in the overall picture of neglect and disregard for the students' safety by the Hogwarts system in general. Which still, of course, does not make it right.
But now I'm really off topic, so I'll just end by saying that Snape made a lot of mistakes, but I do believe that the good that he did makes up for it enough to earn forgiveness and redemption for him, at least in my opinion.
Re: Scraping the bottom of the barrel