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Snape's 'Other Women'

The World of Severus Snape

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Snape's 'Other Women'

[info]torino10154
5/13/08 10:10 am
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This should be good. ;) First a bit of canon . . . US Ed. p.740-1

"Snape's Patronus was a doe," said Harry, "the same as my mother's, because he loved her for nearly all of his life, from the time when they were children. You should have realized," he said as he saw Voldemort's nostrils flare, "he asked you to spare her life, didn't he?"

"He desired her, that was all," sneered Voldemort, "but when she had gone, he agreed that there were other women, and of purer blood, worthier of him-"

"Of course, he told you that," said Harry, "but he was Dumbledore's spy from the moment you threatened her, . . . "

I do think Voldemort has it wrong-even if Snape loved Lily obsessively, I believe he loved her as best as he was able. But Harry may have over simplified things and probably the truth lies between.

So who were these other women? Girlfriends? One night stands? Did they even exist? I just noticed for the first time that Voldemort said "he agreed that there were other women." That leaves quite a bit of wiggle room.

I would ask that we stick to canon-yes, yes, we all know he was shagging Lupin or waiting for Hermione to come of age :P but for the purposes of this discussion, please leave your favorite ship at the door.
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  • [info]shyfoxling
    5/16/08 03:42 pm (UTC)
    waitaminute. Snape's a half-blood, isn't he? and according to the DE ideology, a half-blood wasn't such a great thing to be. note how pissed Bellatrix got when Harry called Voldemort that, which makes it pretty clear that Voldemort did not advertise the fact

    I agree that it means Voldemort didn't make it common knowledge, but I think Bellatrix's reaction is more likely because she's a Black who is all about the pure-blood ideology, than that Death Eaters have some kind of particular policy against it. OTOH half-bloods can only result from blood traitors, which is something they'd surely be against. Whether they hold it against the product of such a union themselves is another thing. I think it must have been known that Snape was not a pure-blood.

    nor do i believe that his love for Lily was sexual. he became fixated on her before the age of 10, for heaven's sake- that's a little early for a boy to be feeling the stirrings of, well, pretty much anything.

    At age 10, no, I agree. He would have known that he liked being around her, pretty much. But I think it did eventually come to have a sexual component, and that Voldemort was not wrong to say "he desired her", but that he was wrong to say "that was all".

    would all that many pureblood women have reciprocated his affection?

    I don't know if blood status would be the issue there. A half-Muggle turning back into the fold would be a good thing, after all; eventually the Muggle blood would get diluted to insignificance. Severus's hypothetical children would still be half-bloods, because of their grandfather Tobias, but with good choices, Severus's grandchildren could be technical pure-bloods again (although someone as prejudiced as Bellatrix would probably assert that Muggle blood anywhere at all in the line is a hopeless contamination).

    we are NOT talking about the fabled Sex God of Slytherin here.

    Oh? Well drat!

    • [info]bugland
      5/16/08 05:51 pm (UTC)
      agreed that Snape must have been known be a half-blood. and he must have been an excellent DE, to rise so hgh in the ranks despite this, and despite the fact that Voldemort knew he was a double-agent. are you saying, however, that the basic DE "policy" (or philosophy) was more liberal than Bellatrix's?

      OTOH half-bloods can only result from blood traitors, which is something they'd surely be against. Whether they hold it against the product of such a union themselves is another thing.

      i think they probably would. in cultures where intermarriage between races is considered miscegenation, the children of such relationships are as oppressed as their parents. look at the Holocaust (which JKR was obviously using as an example). simply being the child of a Jew and a Gentile would get you hauled off to the camps. the DE's committed multiple acts of terrorism against Muggles and wizards alike before they came into power, and then promptly initiated the process of "purification." they may have used half-bloods when necessary, but i doubt they had an easy time, either.

      as for Snape/Lily... as far as i'm concerned there's no evidence in the books to prove a sexual attraction (of course, there's no evidence to the contrary, either- JKR really didn't address the issue of adult sexuality at all). Voldemort may have thought so, sure- i doubt he could conceive of wanting a Muggleborn for any reason other than the purely physical. the thing is, people tend to assume that sexual love is the epitome of emotional experience. for me, sex has little to do with love. my strongest relationships are based on, in one case, 18 years of profound friendship, and in the other, the simple, protective love of an adult for two children i've helped raise.

      with good choices, Severus's grandchildren could be technical pure-bloods again (although someone as prejudiced as Bellatrix would probably assert that Muggle blood anywhere at all in the line is a hopeless contamination).

      it is my contention that a great many of the DE's and their supporters would be as prejudiced as Bellatrix. ever hear of the 'one drop' rule? according to people of this mindset, there is no such thing as "dilution into insignificance". anyway, i wasn't talking about blood status so much as the fact that canon-Snape is known to be poor, ill-tempered, and homely- not a good catch by any means, no matter how good he might be in bed ;-)

      • [info]shyfoxling
        5/16/08 06:08 pm (UTC)
        are you saying, however, that the basic DE "policy" (or philosophy) was more liberal than Bellatrix's?

        I'm saying we don't exactly know. Just what the DEs espoused and were doing with themselves all the time is annoyingly vague. We know they killed people... but that's about all we know.

        Whether they hold it against the product of such a union themselves is another thing.

        i think they probably would.

        Well, then we're back to "how the heck could Severus have been so well-placed in the DEs". Either it isn't that much of a problem (cf Voldemort's speeching about "I don't want to spill any more magical blood"), or he's getting an extremely special exception. We don't see anyone else, even Bellatrix, harping on his blood status...

        the thing is, people tend to assume that sexual love is the epitome of emotional experience. for me, sex has little to do with love.

        Umm... okay. I'm not sure what that has to do with it. I think you are probably unusual in that respect. I can't deny that it's possible Severus is the same way, but it just isn't the feeling I get re: Lily. He seemed rather upset by the notion that James fancied her, and I don't think that would be the case if he didn't fancy her himself.

        anyway, i wasn't talking about blood status so much as the fact that canon-Snape is known to be poor, ill-tempered, and homely-

        You specified "pureblood" women would be unlikely to want him.
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