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Snape's 'Other Women'

The World of Severus Snape

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Snape's 'Other Women'

[info]torino10154
5/13/08 10:10 am
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This should be good. ;) First a bit of canon . . . US Ed. p.740-1

"Snape's Patronus was a doe," said Harry, "the same as my mother's, because he loved her for nearly all of his life, from the time when they were children. You should have realized," he said as he saw Voldemort's nostrils flare, "he asked you to spare her life, didn't he?"

"He desired her, that was all," sneered Voldemort, "but when she had gone, he agreed that there were other women, and of purer blood, worthier of him-"

"Of course, he told you that," said Harry, "but he was Dumbledore's spy from the moment you threatened her, . . . "

I do think Voldemort has it wrong-even if Snape loved Lily obsessively, I believe he loved her as best as he was able. But Harry may have over simplified things and probably the truth lies between.

So who were these other women? Girlfriends? One night stands? Did they even exist? I just noticed for the first time that Voldemort said "he agreed that there were other women." That leaves quite a bit of wiggle room.

I would ask that we stick to canon-yes, yes, we all know he was shagging Lupin or waiting for Hermione to come of age :P but for the purposes of this discussion, please leave your favorite ship at the door.
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  • Re: Snape deciding to switch sides

    [info]the_bitter_word
    5/16/08 11:10 am (UTC)
    *g* Snape was pretty good at making the grand gesture to his own potential detriment, such as camping out in front of the Gryffindor rooms when he'd insulted Lily, or showing his Dark Mark to Fudge. What could he reasonably expect from Dumbledore on the hilltop, though? As you say, they are not close. In fact, Snape may have already experienced Dumbledore's complete disregard after the Shrieking Shack incident. With that history, Snape might have expected Dumbledore to kill him at worst, or again, disregard him at best. So, he had to bargain. And yes, Dumbledore jumped at that offer and threw in a little deprecation to boot (as if Snape could have in any universe asked Voldemort to spare the male Potters -- it's like Hotel Rwanda and the hero turning away from a compound of abused women -- you can't save everyone -- unless you're Harry Potter, of course, and he didn't even try to save Snape -- /rambling.)

    • Re: Snape deciding to switch sides

      [info]shyfoxling
      5/16/08 03:46 pm (UTC)
      With that history, Snape might have expected Dumbledore to kill him at worst

      His opening line in that scene is "don't kill me". Despite his nickname, Severus is hardly a snivelling coward who grovels in terror. I doubt he would say such a thing if he didn't think it was a realistic possibility.

    • Re: Snape deciding to switch sides

      [info]terri_testing
      5/17/08 01:14 am (UTC)
      Snape and the grand gesture--ah, yes, that's our Severus.

      But really, I think the bargain was not so much "I'll do anything if only you'll protect Lily"--because, realistically, Snape knew (however panicked and guilt-stricken he might have been) Dumbledore was already doing everything he could to protect the Potters. If Dumbles believed in the prophecy, the Potters' protection was not optional.

      So Snape's real message was "Let me in on it."

      If Dumbles read him that way, then Snape was making a legitimate request--and one that needed to be evaluated damned carefully before he acceded to it. So Dumble's viciousness ("a little deprecation"? Your way with words is not up to its usual standard.) might not have been quite as gratuitous as it seemed.

      And Snape passed the test, and got let to be Lily's protector.

      BTW, I do imagine he'd had some romantic fool idea when he joined the Death Eaters that if he attained high enough status among them, he'd be able to protect one particular Mudblood when her hotheaded husband dragged her into danger....

      • Re: Snape deciding to switch sides

        [info]the_bitter_word
        5/17/08 03:16 am (UTC)
        Well, this is an interesting discussion (to me, at least). Did Snape know that Dumbledore was doing all in his power to protect the Potters? This is the same Dumbledore who let a wizard he no doubt knew to be a Death Eater sympathizer, if not a full Death Eater, abscond with at least partial knowledge of the Prophecy. What did Dumbledore think Snape, or Voldemort, was going to do with the Prophecy's information? It could have come out even if Snape wasn't a Death Eater, but merely a blabbermouth. Any way, it meant death for some child. Snape knew that. I don't think he trusted Dumbledore to look after the Potters. With Dumbledore's indifference to the danger others were in (Shrieking Shack, the decimated Order) and Snape's own low status with Dumbledore, I think that Snape knew he would have to bargain.

        However, if Snape hoped that Dumbledore would include Snape in Lily's protection, he certainly went about manipulating Dumbledore in the wrong way. Why didn't he lie about asking for protection for all the Potters, for example? Why didn't he make a clean breast of revealing the Prophecy and include the Longbottoms in his request? Why didn't he try to arrange to meet Dumbledore in a manner less dramatic? There wasn't much rationality or cunning in hilltop Snape. He made himself powerless at the outset, and only lost ground from there.

        But, for the sake of argument, what role do you think Snape wanted from Dumbledore? Do you think Snape wanted the danger, isolation, and betrayal of becoming a spy? It's certainly the most thankless and indirect role he could ask for as Lily's protector. Did Snape have some specific job in mind? Someone who promises "anything" doesn't seem to be making plans or taking contingencies into account.

        I think Snape went to Dumbledore in sheer, reckless desperation because Dumbledore was reportedly the only one Voldemort feared. Dumbledore emotionally manipulated Snape and got a very beat-down promise of "anything." I don't think Snape passed a test here, unless it was the all-purpose doormat test. I would love to give Snape credit for securing a goal here, but... there was only one Slytherin on the hill that night, and it wasn't Snape. And, for the sake of not being facetious for a change, Dumbledore's attitude to wards Snape disgusts me beyond words.

        I do agree that Snape felt a high position in the Death Eaters would give him power enough to protect Lily after what looked like the inevitable fall of the magical world to Voldemort, and would allow him to offer her a comfortable life after that.

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