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arbre_rieur ([info]arbre_rieur) wrote in [info]scans_daily,
@ 2009-09-19 01:27:00

Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:creator: alan moore, creator: kevin o'neill, publisher: wildstorm, title: league of extraordinary gentlemen

Alan Moore speaks out on Blackest Night
He does. It's in his recent interview with Mania.com:

AM: That’s it. It’s the paucity of imagination. I was noticing that DC seems to have based one of its latest crossovers [Blackest Night] in Green Lantern based on a couple of eight-page stories that I did 25 or 30 years ago. I would have thought that would seem kind of desperate and humiliating, When I have said in interviews that it doesn’t look like the American comic book industry has had an idea of its own in the past 20 or 30 years, I was just being mean. I didn’t expect the companies concerned to more or less say, “Yeah, he’s right. Let’s see if we can find another one of his stories from 30 years ago to turn into some spectacular saga.” It’s tragic. The comics that I read as a kid that inspired me were full of ideas. They didn’t need some upstart from England to come over there and tell them how to do comics. They’d got plenty of ideas of their own. But these days, I increasingly get a sense of the comics industry going through my trashcan like raccoons in the dead of the night.

KA: [laughing]

AM: That’s a good image, isn’t it? They weren’t even particularly good ideas. For Christ’s sake, get some of your own ideas! It’s not that difficult. You used to be able to have them! I’ve also heard that, apparently, a fifth of the direct sales market in comics is my work—twenty percent! I’d imagine that the sales in places like Borders and the big book shops, which are increasingly where the bulk of the market is, it’s probably a higher percentage.


For legality, three pages from Volume 2 of The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. Gullivar Jones from Edwin Lester Arnold's Lieutenant Gullivar Jones: His Vacation meets up John Carter from Edgar Rice Burroughs's Barsoom novels to plot against the Martians from HG Wells's The War of the Worlds.







Tags:
creator: alan moore, creator: kevin o'neill, title: league of extraordinary gentlemen, publisher: wildstorm


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[info]stolisomancer
2009-09-19 09:11 am UTC (link)
Well, let's be accurate here.

- Geoff Johns grows up reading Alan Moore's work.
- Geoff Johns becomes a writer.
- Geoff Johns is obsessed with continuity trivia, both obscure and otherwise.
- Alan Moore generated a lot of that continuity trivia.
- Moore's trivia winds up playing a crucial role in Johns's output.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ashtoreth, 2009-09-19 09:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]xammax, 2009-09-19 11:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkknightjrk, 2009-09-19 05:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]looking2dastars, 2009-09-21 05:53 am UTC

[info]statham1986
2009-09-19 09:24 am UTC (link)
Okay, so I love Alan Moore, I could defend him and sing the praises of Top Ten and Tom Strong and the like till I'm blue in the face, but this is just bizarre and egotistical, for him. Normally I'd defend his bashing of the Big Two because I do genuinely see him as being wronged by them in quite a few ways.

But to accuse DC of just reusing his ideas? I thought that was the entire point of continuity and having a developed history for a character and a universe, that one writer comes up with the original idea and then later writers use that and build their own stories on top of it? For Moore to say stuff like this is also to imply that he shouldn't be able to use characters like Hal Jorden and Batman and the Joker, in the eighties, isn't it? Or am I misinterpreting what he's saying?

Because all I'm reading is that he's moaning about Johns being inspired by his work when he himself says he was inspired by the books he read as a kid.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ian_karkull, 2009-09-19 09:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jlbarnett, 2009-09-19 11:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jkcarrier, 2009-09-19 12:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]statham1986, 2009-09-19 12:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]batcookies, 2009-09-19 10:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]statham1986, 2009-09-19 12:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]halloweenjack, 2009-09-19 08:35 pm UTC

[info]ian_karkull
2009-09-19 09:25 am UTC (link)
Oh, buurrnn! I can just see Moore sitting in a huge armchair by the fire, smugly stroking his magnificient beard as he says this.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ashtoreth, 2009-09-19 09:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]greenmask, 2009-09-19 02:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2009-09-19 04:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]halloweenjack, 2009-09-19 08:36 pm UTC

[info]amazingman
2009-09-19 10:12 am UTC (link)
Let's be realistic here, Mr. Moore. Yes, you introduced Ysmalut and the prophecy and Sodom Yat. Kudos. At this point, that's really about 5, maybe 10% of the over all Blackest night story.

Plus, the sheer biting irony of Alan Moore of all people complaining about a lack of original ideas is just mind-boggling.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]batcookies, 2009-09-19 10:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jlroberson, 2009-09-20 12:52 am UTC

[info]kusonaga
2009-09-19 10:57 am UTC (link)
As noted, the irony is delicious here. Alan Moore's entire career is based off of riffing on other, earlier works.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]goldenbrowngod, 2009-09-20 12:04 am UTC

[info]alschroeder
2009-09-19 12:18 pm UTC (link)
But the thing is...and yes, I appreciate the irony of Alan Moore saying it---but as a general criticism of the current comic industry, he's right.

Look, I LIKE Geoff Johns. I like continuity-driven stories much more than full reboots, where you're just rehashing the past. But Alan Moore's done plenty of original stuff too. For every League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, there was a Tom Strong, for every Killing Joke there was a Promethea, for every Supreme that was a V for Vendetta.

How many original creations has Geoff Johns done? And again, I LIKE his stuff. I don't think Moore is particularly dumping on Johns, just the comic industry as a whole. Both he and I remember the sixties', when there was a breathtaking number of new concepts and characters introduced in a short period of time---where the return of older characters, like the original Captain America, Namor or the Justice Society was the exception not the rule. Even the recreations---the new Flash, the new Green Lantern, the new Human Torch, the Justice League as opposed to the Justice Society...tried to introduce new elements and tried seriously to modernize it.

I don't think Moore is comparing Johns and other current comics professionals to himself--in fact, I think he's lamenting he started the trend--I think he's comparing them to Stan Lee/Jack Kirby, or Gardner Fox and John Broome.

Are there creators who try to introduce new concepts without ignoring the old? Of course. Grant Morrison, in both his runs on JLA (Wonderworld: Mageddon; Prometheus) and X-Men, introduced a slew of new concepts without ignoring the old. Warren Ellis, in much of his stuff, goes even further. PLANETARY is a commentary on old heroic fiction, but again, introduces a slew of new concepts and characters while doing so, to the point where he has new characters fighting a villainous Fantastic Four.

One can have continuity AND creativity. Kirby had it. He'd revive Captain America and the Guardian and the Newsboy Legion while introducing a ton of new characters, like the New Gods and the Silver Surfer etc.

Don't kneejerk against your favorite new comic. I'm enjoying the Black Lantern arc too. But I remember when Galactus was introduced, and Thor fought the Destroyer, and every month the Flash was introduced a new villain, never seen before.

Keith Giffin had the same complaint, that there aren't enough NEW characters and concepts being introduced.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]kaetepixie, 2009-09-19 12:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]alschroeder, 2009-09-19 12:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]thokstar, 2009-09-19 02:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkknightjrk, 2009-09-19 05:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]icon_uk, 2009-09-19 02:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]alschroeder, 2009-09-21 01:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]amazingman, 2009-09-19 09:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jlroberson, 2009-09-20 12:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]freddylloyd, 2009-09-19 09:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]amazingman, 2009-09-20 09:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jlroberson, 2009-09-21 10:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jlroberson, 2009-09-21 10:53 am UTC

[info]kaetepixie
2009-09-19 12:22 pm UTC (link)
Yeaaaah. Alan Moore is a great creator, but there is such a thing as being too full of yourself.

For goodness sake, accusing someone else of being inspired by past fiction and reusing it is the pot calling the kettle black. Except the Pot has also been rolling around in the purest, blackest India Ink.

(Reply to this)


[info]taggerung301
2009-09-19 12:45 pm UTC (link)
well that's just not a very nice thing to say Mr. Moore . . .

(Reply to this)


[info]zordboy
2009-09-19 01:05 pm UTC (link)
The solution is obvious.

Geoff's love of obscure comics trivia versus Alan's beard. Battle to the death. Last one standing gets chest-thumping rights.

Whoever loses, the industry wins.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]zegim, 2009-09-20 06:10 am UTC

[info]nagaoka
2009-09-19 01:07 pm UTC (link)
One thing that really annoys me is criticism that consists mostly of saying "Wow, that's sad." "That's pretty pathetic." "I just feel sorry for you that you think [such and such] is [such and such]."

It's what people use to bully others into accepting their point of view. Instead of saying his thoughts in a reasonable and respectful manner, even if the opinion is negative, he insults the people responsible by pretending that he has to feel sorry for their mental state. No no, their way of thinking can't be valid. They really think it is though! They should be pitied! Look at him try to argue his sad points when clearly I am the victor! Then anyone who hears the rant is more reluctant to express a different viewpoint to avoid being lumped into the "tragic" category.

Ugh...I know that saying you've got issues with DC is putting it mildly, Mr Moore, but for heaven's sake!

(Reply to this)


[info]werehawk
2009-09-19 01:10 pm UTC (link)
I wish they would reuse some of his Swamp Thing stuff too. That was quite good.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]icon_uk, 2009-09-19 02:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]werehawk, 2009-09-19 06:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pyrotwilight, 2009-09-19 04:36 pm UTC

[info]daningram
2009-09-19 01:24 pm UTC (link)
Well, given how little Johns has used the actual story and instead tweaked it to suit his needs, I think alan Moore is really full of himself here. Especially when Blackest Night uses even fewer elements.

And honestly, getting two large epics out of a throw away story isn't lazy, it's pretty damn creative.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sistermagpie, 2009-09-19 02:43 pm UTC

[info]lultam
2009-09-19 02:07 pm UTC (link)
So basically Alan Moore is claiming that he invented the zombie genre? And any subsequent uses of it results in rehashing stories he wrote? Wait till he sees the walking dead, man will he be pissed.

(Reply to this)


[info]thebigapricot
2009-09-19 02:14 pm UTC (link)
I think he's right about the lack of ideas. At the big two at least. But while his criticism has merit, who wants to spend time listening to it when it is increasingly delivered wrapped in ego and petulance?

Also I think it's a little disingenuous to talk about originality given that he has repeatedly used other people's characters as the basis of his work.

That's interesting data about how much of the direct sales market is made up of his work. Twenty percent sounds high although given the sales of Watchmen alone not unrealistic.



(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ashtoreth, 2009-09-19 06:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bruinsfan, 2009-09-21 04:19 am UTC

[info]thokstar
2009-09-19 02:16 pm UTC (link)
I think it's clear that Moore hasn't read Blackest Night, and is just responding to the fact that there's a crossover called Blackest Night that's based off of his works.

I suspect he might complain even if he had read the comic (Johns work is based off a Western Judeo-Christian mythology that Moore doesn't believe in), but I suspect his complaints would be different.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]darkknightjrk, 2009-09-19 05:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ashtoreth, 2009-09-19 06:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]thokstar, 2009-09-19 08:29 pm UTC

[info]queenanthai
2009-09-19 02:46 pm UTC (link)
Someday I want to see Alan Moore and Warren Ellis in a crazy-off, just for kicks.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]darkknightjrk, 2009-09-19 05:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]04nbod, 2009-09-19 07:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]freeman333, 2009-09-19 08:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]queenanthai, 2009-09-20 01:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]strannik01, 2009-09-20 08:31 pm UTC

[info]btravage.livejournal.com
2009-09-19 03:02 pm UTC (link)
What I'm most disappointed of is that they didn't particularly use the Empire of Tears material that well. When we finally got there in Rage of the Red Lanterns it was a huge letdown. Ysmalt was one of those things that's power comes from it's mystique, which Geoff Johns tore down to tell his own story.

(Reply to this)


[info]thatnickguy
2009-09-19 03:09 pm UTC (link)
Guys, take into context how the interview is written. There is an editorial addition of mentioning Blackest Night, as inidicated by the closed brackets. THEY made the addition of Blackest Night, not Moore. Moore rarely pays attention to the goings on of mainstream comics because he hates both DC and Marvel for their treatment of him and his work (mostly in the sense that he doesn't own the rights to them, etc).

Now, Blackest Night might be the MOST recent, but Sinestro Corps War is still pretty recent, as well, by only a few years. And yes, there were a LOT of ideas used by Johns that came from Moore's short stories:

-Mogo fighting Ranx (you could also say Mogo, himself, but he's been around for awhile, now)
-The planet of Ysmault
-The Children of the White Lobe
-The Empire of Tears
-Sodam Yat

Honestly, I'm surprised the Rot Lop Fan (the Green Lantern that lives in complete darkenss, so doesn't understand lanterns or light or the colour green) hasn't shown his face, yet.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]quietprofanity, 2009-09-19 03:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]nagaoka, 2009-09-19 04:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bluefall, 2009-09-19 05:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ashtoreth, 2009-09-19 06:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]looking2dastars, 2009-09-21 06:05 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]interrobamf, 2009-09-19 06:34 pm UTC

[info]quietprofanity
2009-09-19 03:12 pm UTC (link)
Since I don't have an opinion on the interview, not having read Blackest Night, I'll just say that I always thought of the first issue of the second volume of League was a big example of how Moore's beginnings of stories are never as good as his endings. But then I actually read A Princess of Mars and now I like it a lot better, fanwanky as it is.

(Reply to this)


[info]ashez2ashes
2009-09-19 04:17 pm UTC (link)
Jeez Moore... There's also plenty of imagination in the American comics industry coming out of smaller presses and independent works. Marvel and DC, just by its nature is never going to be pushing originality all that much.

(Reply to this)


[info]pyrotwilight
2009-09-19 04:29 pm UTC (link)
It'll be even funnier if Geoff goes the route I've thought of and make Nekron the Great Evil Beast as well.

(Reply to this)


[info]mullon
2009-09-19 04:59 pm UTC (link)
I don't see anything wrong with taking a small idea and making it into a big idea.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]khamelea, 2009-09-19 06:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]thehefner, 2009-09-19 07:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]khamelea, 2009-09-19 08:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]khamelea, 2009-09-19 08:09 pm UTC

[info]04nbod
2009-09-19 07:28 pm UTC (link)
I don't think there is anything wrong in taking a persons idea and developing it further. If they didn't Superman would have died with Siegel and Shuster. Sherlock Holmes would be confined to a few books in a dusty library. Its all the same. It takes equal creativity to take a two dimensional group of characters and update them. Some of the old characters only had an image, a motive and a name. Why not bring them back and flesh them out? It needs to strike a balance between new and old because old will run out. The next generation of writers will need their obscure villains too.

(Reply to this)


[info]kenn_el
2009-09-19 08:19 pm UTC (link)
So is Moore taking credit for zombies as a concept? He sounds incredibly petty in this. I think Johns should do a story where Barbara Gordon gets up out of her wheelchair just to get back at Moore.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]goldenbrowngod, 2009-09-19 11:52 pm UTC
Bad post, starting with the title
[info]halloweenjack
2009-09-19 09:02 pm UTC (link)
I don't think that it's clear at all that Moore is commenting on Blackest Night, specifically, but a lot of commenters here seem to be skipping over that bit and accusing Moore of claiming to have invented zombies. Where are you getting that from?

OK, here's an idea: try reading the linked interview. Moore is actually saying that the degree to which his past work is dominating the TPB market (his numbers are possibly exaggerated, but whatever) is a bad thing. I can understand that some people may have a little bit of a problem processing that, because it's exactly counter to the pattern that most other superstar comics writers show, that of spending as much or more time self-promoting as they do writing. You can argue with the specifics of whether a particular character has been mined out--I think that Hercules, the Secret Six members, and especially Nova are getting written really well for the first time in their existence--but I think that he's absolutely right in that the comics market is shrinking for a reason.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Bad post, starting with the title - [info]strannik01, 2009-09-20 08:35 pm UTC
Re: Bad post, starting with the title - [info]halloweenjack, 2009-09-20 09:04 pm UTC
Re: Bad post, starting with the title - [info]strannik01, 2009-09-20 10:54 pm UTC
Re: Bad post, starting with the title - [info]goldenbrowngod, 2009-09-20 09:26 pm UTC
Re: Bad post, starting with the title - [info]strannik01, 2009-09-20 10:41 pm UTC

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