InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "plot > pb"

benicio127 (benicio127) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-09-16 23:04:00

Entry tags:

creator: grant morrison, creator: philip tan, publisher: dc comics, title: batman and robin

Two more pages from Batman & Robin 4
The conversation between Red Hood and Scarlet.

Consider these SPOILERY.

This was a nice moment between the two, very humanizing moment for Red Hood anyways. I think the last word is a dead give away to who he is (for those who hadn't figured it out yet, maybe...)

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	sistermagpie 2009-09-17 03:12 am UTC (link)
	I do really like these two.:-) (Reply to this)

	addude 2009-09-17 03:17 am UTC (link)
	Anyone not think its Jason Todd? (Reply to this)

jaybee3
2009-09-17 03:24 am UTC (link)

OK, I changed my mind. That is SOOOOOO Jason Todd. And it looks like Morrison's not going to make into a crazed lunatic either but an actual anti-hero (take that Tony Daniel). I've liked Scarlett/Sasha since she appeared in B&C #3. She serves as a good foil to Damien (who failed to save her). I hope she sticks around and doesn't turn into just another villian down the road.

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	benicio127 2009-09-17 09:29 pm UTC (link)
	I just realised she actually appeared at the end of B&R #1 and used to be a cute little brunette. Her dad worked for Toad, who worked for Pyg. Pyg captured them & said her "papa" betrayed him. They kidnapped her along w/ her dad. So, added to the sadness of her story... (Reply to this) (Parent)

	foxhack 2009-09-17 03:40 am UTC (link)
	I still think it's Joker. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	akodo_rokku 2009-09-17 03:42 am UTC (link)
	It feels like Joker to me too. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	mssolo 2009-09-17 07:07 am UTC (link)
	He was the original Red Hood, pre-Jokerism. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	halloweenjack 2009-09-17 03:40 pm UTC (link)
	Red Hood? Red herring! (Reply to this) (Parent)

	(Anonymous) 2009-09-17 04:07 am UTC (link)
	I thought this was going to be the Joker now I'm not too sure. The "voice" of the Red Hood sounds like Jason, like the Winnick written Jason anyway. (Reply to this)

retro_nouveau
2009-09-17 04:12 am UTC (link)

Red Hood definitely ties him to Jason and the Joker. I can definitely see Jason taking someone under his wing, and he's all about revenge on the one that killed him (and maybe the one that "abandoned" him). I can't see the Joker acting this way for long without some kind of randomness, and he doesn't care a bit what (other) criminals are doing.

If they don't kill everyone from the Joker down to the average joe jaywalker, I could become attached to these two, and especially if it is Jason. Dammit.

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	benicio127 2009-09-17 04:15 am UTC (link)
	I think the "Heh" tells me it's Jason waaaay more than anyone. ....Plus have you read it? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

retro_nouveau
2009-09-17 04:34 am UTC (link)

Oh, I thought you mentioned "heh" completely for the opposite reason -- that it's Joker trying to suppress his normal raucous laughter, but a "heh" slipped out.

My pull list is currently Batgirl, Flash: Rebirth (whenever that comes out), Gotham Sirens, Red Robin, Secret Six, Wonder Woman, and oh, look, Exiles is dead at #7, so a spot opened up. I really do not like Damian, but I'll put up with him for Dick and Alfred ... and Jason (if it is him, and for as long as he lasts?). I think you're right, or it's the biggest misdirect ever pulled.

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	benicio127 2009-09-17 04:36 am UTC (link)
	Nope. It's that sarcastic tone at the end he has there, the "heh." There's no way this is the Joker. If it is, I will eat my words in a bowl of soup. Plus there's THE ENDING. Which, I can't say for spoilery reasons, but... yeah. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	jlbarnett 2009-09-17 09:17 pm UTC (link)
	I was going to say it was cancelled at six then I realized that was the spot on your pull list. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	retro_nouveau 2009-09-17 11:18 pm UTC (link)
	D'oh! I'll come clean, my pull list was in alpha order. I was counting Exiles as already dropped off with the last double-sized issue, and you're absolutely right, it's actually #6. No idea what I was thinking -- wishful maybe? (Reply to this) (Parent)

	lipsofpoison 2009-09-17 12:51 pm UTC (link)
	That was what got me. This is UTH Jason, no question. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	mullon 2009-09-17 04:16 am UTC (link)
	Because him being the Joker would be too easy, I'm going to go with the least likely answer and say it's the Ventriloquist sans Scarface. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	aaron_bourque 2009-09-17 04:40 am UTC (link)
	Damn. Arnie must've been mainlining steroids, then. . . . or he's on Venom. That would actually . . . be freaky. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	foxhack 2009-09-17 05:54 am UTC (link)
	I think you mean that woman who replaced Arnie, because he's been dead for a while. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	aaron_bourque 2009-09-17 07:08 am UTC (link)
	. . . that doesn't make any sense. Red Hood is a MAN, that new Ventriloquist is a WOMAN, that would require a WOMAN dress as a MAN . . . Aaron "The Mad Whitaker" Bourque; "And now we fight like men! And women! And women who dress like men!" (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ex_stig213 2009-09-17 07:18 am UTC (link)
	But of course, she's dead too, and a good riddance it was. Now let's hope BN brings back Arnie for good, I miss him. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	bariman1987 2009-09-17 05:04 pm UTC (link)
	I thought she just got thrown off an exploding boat. That's totally survivable in Comicbookland. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ex_stig213 2009-09-17 05:06 pm UTC (link)
	Not if there's no demand. Especially for such a dull, unlikeable non-character. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	mysteryfan 2009-09-17 04:19 am UTC (link)
	I really liked these two pages. Less sure about the last two panels, but really liked the rest of the Red Hood/Scarlet interaction, and especially the second panel, second page. Thought that was excellent. Very sweet of him and very sad for her. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	benicio127 2009-09-17 04:31 am UTC (link)
	Agreed, yeah, it was very fatherly. Almost as if Jason is evoking Bruce. C'mon. It's Jason. Jeez. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	icon_uk 2009-09-17 07:15 am UTC (link)
	I don't get "fatherly" from it at all, as he doesn't address the problem she has with the mask, or actually offer to help her, he skates over it to suit his own ends. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	lipsofpoison 2009-09-17 12:46 pm UTC (link)
	If it's Jason, placating her is more fatherly than saying 'let's try and fix you' for him, I think. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	yaseen101 2009-09-17 12:48 pm UTC (link)
	Not really, to me it's like he is trying to re assure her that 'it's not as bad as it seems.' I'm still on the fence whether this is either the Joker or Jason Todd. Each of them have a good and valid reason to wear the costume. (Reply to this) (Parent)

ex_stig213
2009-09-17 07:09 am UTC (link)

See, what I think is one of the main components of Morrison's Red Hood is his own contempt for ultra-serious grindark "This Is Really Happening On Da Streets Of Noo Yawk!" writing, especially the kind that pervades Marvel. Red Hood is dressed just like the Punisher; he's called himself "Scourge Of The Underworld" and asked "Who Can You Trust?"; and here, he's trying to tell a traumatised girl that her horrible disfigurement makes her "Special" and qualifies her for vigilantism...much like some of the characters in Morrison's own NXM run...

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	arbre_rieur 2009-09-17 09:32 am UTC (link)
	What's going on in the left of the first panel? Are those robotic arms making a motorcycle or something? (Reply to this)

	skitster 2009-09-17 09:33 am UTC (link)
	A quick re-read, especially the rather touching "I could never have planned you" dialogue, is giving me more of a Joke vibe than Jason vibe. But it’s not the jibbering menace Joker as Morrison normally writes him. Hmmm. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	darkknightjrk 2009-09-18 12:09 am UTC (link)
	Hell, Morrison was the guy who started the idea of Joker constantly remaking himself--it's possible he's done it now. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

mistermushroom
2009-09-23 08:00 am UTC (link)

Now I have my doubts. I don't know, I have to mention Dr Hugo Strange and Dr Hurt, because Morrison likes to use characters that suffer from insane psychological personalities . Remmeber he had mention before that Batman suffers from borderline personality disorder, and Dr Hurt to me have the same problem, and maybe Dr Hugo Strange.

Does guys like the Joker like to reinvent themselves.

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mistermushroom
2009-09-23 07:30 am UTC (link)

Jason loves using two guns everytime he puts on a mask. His Red Hood and Batman personas had them, but Hush also have that love for guns. So this new hood is very tall, and Hush is much taller and bigger than Jason even Bruce. But in the other hand the Joker is a big dude and he likes to change his appearance even physically.

So lets include Hush into the mix.

Hey! his the one in Streets of Gotham #4 to say that he was tired of been a puppet.

This can help a little http://media.comics.ign.com/articles/988/988283/img_6804022.html
http://comics.ign.com/dor/objects/14327279/batman-and-robin/images/batman-and-robin-20090915111338248.html

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	stillawkward 2009-09-17 10:06 am UTC (link)
	I definately get the Joker vibe. But... at the same time, I feel like both Joker and Jason are too obvious. The dialogue suggests someone who is very interested in his public image. Red Hood wants to come across as modern, cool and counter-culture. Any thoughts? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	ex_stig213 2009-09-17 10:12 am UTC (link)
	...Libra? (Reply to this) (Parent)

	yaseen101 2009-09-17 12:50 pm UTC (link)
	...Grant Morrison? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	stillawkward 2009-09-17 01:20 pm UTC (link)
	I know you're making a joke, but Morrison would totally do something like that (see also: Animal Man). I know that fanwank would crank it up to 11 if that occurred, but I'd be totally down. I love Morrison's meta stuff. Which, now that I think about it, is most of his stuff. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	yaseen101 2009-09-17 03:18 pm UTC (link)
	I know that that's why I mentioned his name. Moreover, I also love his meta stuff as long as it doesn't occur in mainstream Batman titles. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	comicoz 2009-09-17 08:46 pm UTC (link)
	Anarchy? (Reply to this) (Parent)

	lipsofpoison 2009-09-17 12:42 pm UTC (link)
	Loving this. It's showing a compassionate side and I'm with Dick - the only way it could be more Under the Hood would be if he'd brought the guys heads with him to the meet. (Reply to this) (Thread)

benicio127
2009-09-17 02:38 pm UTC (link)

I know. Say what you will about Morrison, but he does like to write complex characters AND he does his homework.

I mean the MOTORCYCLE for God's sake. Pretty much his mode of transportation throughout UTH.

But LOL'ing at Scarlet twittering and the end bit of "Are you getting this, Scarlet? Batman aiding a known felon?" as she films it on her iPhone.
Jason... totally up on today's trends.

Except for the helmet, which reminds me of a vibrator still and now it's all I can see...

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	04nbod 2009-09-17 03:12 pm UTC (link)
	I love this for 2 reasons 1) I get Robin vibes from this girl 2) I get Harley vibes from this girl she's a wonderful mix and as much as I love Harley, I would have never forseen the joker's main associate being as hot as she is. I love that now in Gotham there is a character as deformed as the Joker and 2 face that is a woman rather than the hotties like Ivy. (Reply to this)

	skylands 2009-09-17 05:20 pm UTC (link)
	I wonder if it's possibly Nite-Wing/Tad Ryerstad, but I'm not sure. I don't think he's been seen since pre-Bludhaven kablooey. Either way, seeing as Dick's Batman, it'd have a couple decent interactions if they brought him back. (Reply to this)

milleniumrex
2009-09-17 09:12 pm UTC (link)

Argh. I love the characterization here, but something bothers me.

We all know comics have a bit of a "physical deformity = EEEEEEEEEEVIL" theme going on. It's more than a little annoying.

The character of Scarlet is pretty ripe for a redemption arc, and she seems pretty interesting...but thanks to Morrison mutilating her, it'll probably never happen. It all but ensures she'll never be used outside this storyline either, assuming she survives.

I can't help but feel the character could have been done without the perma-mask, considering she did see her father tortured and mutilated in front of her.

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	darkknightjrk 2009-09-18 12:12 am UTC (link)
	I don't get the idea that she's evil in this--she sounds like a scared and traumatized as all hell young girl who's being manipulated to someone else's ends. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	kingrockwell 2009-09-17 11:49 pm UTC (link)
	Oh, I dunno. I'm still getting Joker vibes. But more importantly, it awesome that he's practically wearing a color-changed Red Mask costume! Animal Man #7? Anybody? Come on! (Reply to this)

	lyraeinne 2009-09-18 02:08 am UTC (link)
	I've been clinging to desperate hope that that isn't Jason, but alas, I'm starting to get the feeling that I'm going to be disappointed. But I like Scarlet. I'm actually really looking forward to seeing what they do with her. (Reply to this)

psychop_rex
2009-09-18 05:03 am UTC (link)

If I had to pick between the two of them, I think I'd pick the Joker, rather than Jason - but really, who says it has to be either of them? Why be so predictable? Why not someone completely different? Black Mask, perhaps - yeah, I know, he's supposed to be dead, but all that talk about masks making you special and how it's revenge 'of one crazy man in a mask on another crazy man in the mask'... I dunno. I'm getting a Black Mask sort of vibe. Sure, there was the 'this is Black Mask's skull that I keep on my desk' moment a little while back, but this is comics. In comics you are alive until proven dead - and that's not always a problem, either.

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