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sherkahn ([info]sherkahn) wrote in [info]scans_daily,
@ 2009-06-02 09:14:00

Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Week of Doom: Unthinkable Part II
Dr. Doom shows why he's Marvel's TOP villain.

Doom begins his plan against the FF using his new mystic powers.



1st, he taps into his *familiar*, who happens to be the young Valeria Richards.
Talk about traumatizing the kid... strong grown men have fainted under the gaze of Doom's scarred face.

Using her as his mystic eyes and ears, he gets through their high-tech defenses.

He launches an assault on the FF headquarters.
Then he sends their eldest child Franklin to hell. Yup, just like the movie.


Since the Ghostbusters aren't available (and Reed never bothered to think about creating weapons and defenses against inter-dimensional threats).


The FF go to Latveria to force Doom to return Franklin back to them.




The FF throw everything they can at Doom. Nothing works.






Doom tortures the FF in particularly gruesome ways, then tortures Reed with the knowledge that as smart as Reed may be, he doesn't know enough to figure out how to stop Doom.

coming up... Reed gets humbled, and the villain gets his due.

*For the mods, FF Series 3, issues #68-70

(Post a new comment)


[info]cyberghostface
2009-06-02 12:42 pm UTC (link)
Buffalo Bill called. He wants his woman-suit back.

(Reply to this)


[info]bluefall
2009-06-02 12:46 pm UTC (link)
... Wow, Sue is using her powers impressively stupidly.

(Reply to this)


[info]aaron_bourque
2009-06-02 12:53 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, this is still bad. Doom would never let himself be talked to like how those demons are. And what about all of the technological superiority built into his metal armor? Abandoned for leatherfetish sorcery? Doom already HAS sorcerous implements built into his metal armor. This is just EEEEEEEEEEEEVIL wearing the SKIN OF THE DAMNED, OOH SCARY, ARE YOU SCARED, BECAUSE THIS IS TOTALLY SCARY AND EEEEEEVIL AMIRITE?. Bleh.

And Doom wouldn't torture the other FF members to get at Reed, not after all of the character development of the past 40 years. Original flavor Doom, yeah okay. Modern Doom has moved past that. He probably would keep them imprisoned, but in all other respects he'd treat them as honored guests . . . who just can't leave. That would mess with Reed without the added TOTALLY EEEVIL ridiculousness.

The ONLY thing about this that is in character is Doom gloating . . . but again, it rings false. This is Victor kicking a sick, three-legged puppy when it's been hit by a car. Doom doesn't want a victory like this. Doom wants a SCIENCE!! victory that he can show the world, because anything else is playing with a stacked deck, written in invisible ink, soaked in skunk spray, ON THE WORLD'S UGLIEST GUITAR.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]arrlaari.livejournal.com
2009-06-02 06:17 pm UTC (link)
I follow you until you say you don't like the gloating. The gloating is absolutely perfect.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]aaron_bourque, 2009-06-02 10:46 pm UTC

[info]icon_uk
2009-06-02 01:54 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, this is just... TOO much... and certainly too much for one story.

This is showing Doom as being evil for the sake of being evil. ANYONE can be evil for the sake of being evil, Doom can be honourable, and appalingly polite for the sake of being evil, that's his "thing", a damnsight more than this is.

There's no commentary on the fact that Doom already KNOWS magic, and is bloody good at it. If he'd wanted to challenge Reed like this, all he needed was the spell the four year old could handle, but he knows already Reed can't.

He'd also come up with something a lot more elegant as a trap than this. Strand him somewhere without tech or raw materials, and the spell is used to seal the container with the return switch. All the torment and humiliation, none of this OTT Grand Guignol stuff.

(Reply to this)


[info]longhairedlady
2009-06-02 02:15 pm UTC (link)
I've never read this story, so to experience it like this, so shortly after seeing the actually quite touching scans with baby Valeria, is really jarring. Like, letting Reed know he'd saved his kid should have been enough.

That said, I know its never just you on scans_daily, but did anyone else read the panel with "I'll do anything you want" and "this room, why am I here" and think the next panel would pull back and show a bedroom?

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]batcookies
2009-06-02 02:34 pm UTC (link)
That's one of my major beefs with this story. It's built on the premise that Doom is so tired of losing to Reed that he'll do anything to win. The idea that he'd give up on using technology and turn to magic (which is essentially like admitting he can't win using tech, which is just... no) is bad enough, but it ignores the fact that the last two times he'd met Reed before this (including saving Valeria) he'd essentially "beaten" Reed.

Horrible story in every way.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]bluefall
2009-06-02 02:49 pm UTC (link)
to experience it like this, so shortly after seeing the actually quite touching scans with baby Valeria, is really jarring.

The thing that baffles me is, in order to have written this story, you have to have read the other, right? So, like, how is it even possible to read Doom saving Sue and Valeria like that, and even conceive of Doom pausing somewhere in that scene to plant psychic spy magic in the baby? How can you have read that scene and still think the scene that opens this post makes any sense to write, that the Doom in that scene could have or would have ever done something like he does here? They just seem so clearly, drastically incompatible to me.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]arbre_rieur, 2009-06-02 03:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sherkahn, 2009-06-02 03:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bluefall, 2009-06-02 03:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]arbre_rieur, 2009-06-02 03:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]xdoop, 2009-06-02 06:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]arbre_rieur, 2009-06-02 06:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]xdoop, 2009-06-02 06:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]arbre_rieur, 2009-06-03 12:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]xdoop, 2009-06-03 07:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sherkahn, 2009-06-02 03:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bluefall, 2009-06-02 04:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]xdoop, 2009-06-02 03:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aaron_bourque, 2009-06-02 05:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sherkahn, 2009-06-02 05:38 pm UTC

[info]fungo_squiggly
2009-06-02 02:15 pm UTC (link)
What always bugs me about this story is the same thing that bugged me when Hudlin presented Doom as a racist, or when Bendis had Doom direct a juvenile and sexist tirade at Ms. Marvel. Inevitably when Doom fans argue that this kind of thing is out of character for him, there comes the reply, "But Doom is EVIL! Why shouldn't be be a racist/sexist/child-torturing complete monster?"

Thing is, you can be evil without being evil ALL THE TIME about EVERY GODDAMN THING. It is entirely possible to be a very bad person while still having some good characteristics, or at least not having some bad characteristics. How many times has a murderer been captured, and his neighbors say "but he seemed like such a nice guy?"

Unfortunately there seems to be a lot of writers out there who simply can't seem to grasp the fact that a person (or character) can be "evil" without being completely vile in every single detail. And so, my basic problem with this story is that it seems like an obvious attempt to present a Dr. Doom of the later sort of villain, who has no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

And a Doom with NO redeeming qualities... IS NOT DOOM.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]bluefall
2009-06-02 02:36 pm UTC (link)
Well, the Ms. Marvel argument misses the point entirely, because the sexism in that scene wasn't the Doombot calling her a piece of furniture or whateverthefuck, it was that Carol actually cared, and Wonder Man had so little respect for her that he immediately tried to reassure her that no, she wasn't a cow, and then Carol got that much more insecure. The idea that Victor von Doom calling Carol fat was some kind of meaningful blow to her ego and self-confidence was a million times more insulting and sexist than anything Doom himself could have said.

Other than that you're spot-on, though. "What's wrong with an evil character acting evil?" as though all evil were interchangeable is such a shallow, juvenile way to write a villain. See also: Magneto, Deathstroke, and to some extent Barbara Minerva.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]batcookies
2009-06-02 02:31 pm UTC (link)
Trash.

(Reply to this)


[info]arbre_rieur
2009-06-02 03:25 pm UTC (link)
Doom should not be a two-dimensional cardboard baddie. In the reality, statements along the lines of "s/he would never do that" are never absoulutes. People are too nuanced and complex for that. That person who is "always" practical and frugal will be willing to exorbitant prices for one specific thing because of its sentimental value. That person who is "always" level-headed and rational has his one or two sensitive topics that he simply cannot be rational about. Reed has always driven Doom to extremes of behavior. In one of the last Doom stories Lee and Kirby wrote, he was pushed so far off the edge that he even tried to blow up an entire Latverian town full of innocents just to kill the F4.

This is perfectly believable behavior on his part.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]xdoop
2009-06-02 03:49 pm UTC (link)
Doom should not be a two-dimensional cardboard baddie.

I totally agree.

Which is why this story sucks.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]arbre_rieur, 2009-06-02 04:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]fungo_squiggly, 2009-06-02 04:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]arbre_rieur, 2009-06-02 06:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]fungo_squiggly, 2009-06-02 06:28 pm UTC

[info]halloweenjack
2009-06-02 04:19 pm UTC (link)
A buttoned-down CPA blowing the family nest egg in Vegas is not on a par with wearing your girlfriend's skin while you're holding little children as hostage. Nice try, no cigar.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]arbre_rieur, 2009-06-02 04:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]halloweenjack, 2009-06-02 04:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]arbre_rieur, 2009-06-02 06:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]xdoop, 2009-06-02 07:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]arbre_rieur, 2009-06-03 12:11 am UTC

[info]aaron_bourque
2009-06-02 05:31 pm UTC (link)
Doom should not be a two-dimensional cardboard baddie.

Directly contradicts:

This is perfectly believable behavior on his part.

Doom can perform atrocities, but not out of cackling villainy.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]xdoop
2009-06-02 03:49 pm UTC (link)
Do Not Want

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]khamelea
2009-06-02 05:17 pm UTC (link)
Savage Telepathy?

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]halloweenjack
2009-06-02 04:22 pm UTC (link)
The sad thing is that Waid could have easily made this an original character that would have had, or needed, no other motivation than what leather!Doom gave Reed in the third-and-second-to-last pages above, and he would have been praised almost universally for it.

Oh, well. 'Ringo's art is good.

(Reply to this)


[info]kitty_tc_69
2009-06-02 04:41 pm UTC (link)
Someone needs to write a story where the real DOOM finds out about this imposter and what he's done, and vaporizes him slowly.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]aaron_bourque, 2009-06-02 05:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kitty_tc_69, 2009-06-02 06:04 pm UTC
No, THIS is Doom - [info]nefrekeptah, 2009-06-02 07:14 pm UTC
Re: No, THIS is Doom - [info]kitty_tc_69, 2009-06-02 08:43 pm UTC
Re: No, THIS is Doom - [info]broblawsky, 2009-06-02 11:12 pm UTC
Re: No, THIS is Doom - [info]kitty_tc_69, 2009-06-02 11:42 pm UTC

[info]broblawsky
2009-06-02 04:49 pm UTC (link)
I honestly think that this is one of the best recently written Dr. Doom stories. It shows a side of his character that all too often gets neglected: his genuine megalomania. In Doom's POV, he's genuinely doing Valeria a favor by giving her the opportunity to help him. He's so out of touch with reality that he honestly thinks that a horrible death in his service is better than a life lived freely.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]aaron_bourque, 2009-06-02 05:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]arbre_rieur, 2009-06-02 06:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aaron_bourque, 2009-06-02 10:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]broblawsky, 2009-06-02 11:06 pm UTC

[info]lonewolf23k
2009-06-02 05:16 pm UTC (link)
Okay, I am SERIOUSLY tired of hearing the Doom Fan-Boys whine and bitch about how this was "Out of Character" for Doom, that Doom "Doesn't Do this Kind of Things", or that "He's Not a Complete Monster"...

You folks really HAVE fallen for Doom's propaganda machine. You need to stop listening to what Doom says, and look at what he is.

#1. Doom is a Megalomaniac. A man with a serious Superiority Complex. He the guy who knows he's better then everyone else, will continuously remind you of it, and uses it as an excuse to do whatever the hell he wants. Why shouldn't he take what you have? He's Better then You, he deserves it more!

#2. Doom is a Dictator. This is something fans need to remember everytime they talk about how nicely Doom takes care of the people of Latveria. Yes, he makes sure they're all hale, healthy and well-fed. And yes, the latverians "spontaneously" demonstrated their love for Doom on a regular basis. But Doom's rule is one of absolute power, with zero democracy. There is no Latverian congress, no Latverian senate, no Latverian premier. All power flows from Doom, and Doom alone.

The most iconic exemple of this comes from the "Emperor Doom" story, in which Doom uses the Purple Man's power to subjugate the entire world to his will, installing himself as absolute ruler of the world. Yes, his rule is benevolent and filled with admirable achievements... ...If one forgets that he has to rob all humanity of it's free will to achieve this goal.

#3. Doom's sense of Honor is Medieval at best. He sees himself as a monarch, and tries to act as such. This is why he keeps his word, and protects his latverian subjects as he does. Because that's what's expected of a monarch. One should not confuse this with actual honesty or compassion. He's intelligent enough never to make a bargain that he can't turn to his advantage (or at least believes so), and his generosity comes at a serious price.

#4. Doom's hatred of Reed Richards is an obsession he cannot overcome. Moreso then his ambitions of World Domination, the goal that most drives Doom is his obsession with proving he's better then Richards. And let's face it, with his brilliance, he could do it a thousand different ways without being a villain. He could create a solution for Global Warming, a cure for Cancer, desktop-available Cold Fusion for all, and get the world to hail him as a greater genius then Richards. But it's not enough for him to just prove he's smarter anymore. It's not enough for him to just kill Richards anymore. He wants to BREAK Richards. He wants to make Reed's world collapse into ashes, then rub Reed's nose in it before finishing him off.

All of these are NOT the mark of a nice, stable and noble person. They're the mark of an unstable, sociopathic man who plays by his own rules, and will have no qualms about killing you horribly if you stand in his way or just displease him. (to be cont)

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]lonewolf23k, 2009-06-02 05:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aaron_bourque, 2009-06-02 05:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kitty_tc_69, 2009-06-02 06:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]broblawsky, 2009-06-02 11:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]psychop_rex, 2009-06-03 08:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]fungo_squiggly, 2009-06-02 05:53 pm UTC

[info]nefrekeptah
2009-06-02 07:21 pm UTC (link)
This is the best Doom story I've ever read.

(Reply to this)


[info]zechs27
2009-06-02 08:28 pm UTC (link)
Honestly, there's only one thing I hate about this story that's so OOC for Doom everything else is about in character for him. The only truly OOC think is him making a deal with demons for more power.

Doom is a man who takes power never make's a deal for it unless he must ala Iron Man: Legacy of Doom (he needed the shard of Excalibur Mephisto possessed that he got from Morgan Le Fey and the only way to do that is to deal Iron Man to Mephisto). No harm or foul to Doom. Here there's obviously a price Doom will pay for this deal. In fact it's his downfall in this story.

Time and time again we've seen Doom do what most men in his possession do.. crave more power. But it's the fact that Doom take's it for himself than make bargain level deals for it. And to me that's the big flaw in this story.

There was no real need for Doom to do what he did to Valeria. Nor make the demon deal for a power increase. At this time it's well known Doom is second human only to Stephen Strange himself when it come's to the magic arts. But his power should already be up there. The dude's learned from the best magicians in the world (Morgan and the dude from Iron Man #149 being the best examples). And as we learned in the 90s Thor Annual if there's a sorcerer as powerful as he? He'll go out of his way to grab that power for himself which HE HAS. The fact is Doom already has the power. It's just the fact writers seem to think nah he has to crave more and think it's not enough. Then if it's not enough how come he has unlimited ammount of robots, yet he always seems to be lacking in magical creatures when it's known he's the best of both?

Still, the moment with him just rubbing it into Reed over try and learn magic is classic Doom. The man would absolutely rub it in his great enemies face that he has great knowledge of something the other does not.

(Reply to this)

The villain for Unthinkable should been Diablo.
[info]proteus_lives
2009-06-02 10:28 pm UTC (link)
Doom would not kill Valeria.

Doom would not make such a bad deal with demons.

That is all.

(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2009-11-24 04:26 pm UTC (link)
Doom is willing torisk the lives of children to get his revenge ?
This isn't the Doom I'm familiar with

(Reply to this)

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