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heartless guttersnipe ([info]parsimonia) wrote in [info]scans_daily,
@ 2009-05-13 21:35:00

Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:char: batgirl/oracle/barbara gordon, char: calculator/noah kuttler, publisher: dc comics

Oracle: The Cure #3
Hmm. HMMM! That's all I'll say above the cut. Spoilers and rambling under the cut.



I really do not know what to make of this issue. It's better than the previous two, and it wasn't as bad as I was expecting, but I'm still not too fond of this mini-series.

Anyways, stuff happens, she's in Hong Kong, then realizes she's gotta go back to Gotham, where she goes to the home of the guy who designed the game that the Calculator's high jacked and used to help kill Cheese-Fiend and nearly kill Larry (who recovers, but now has an extremely low white blood cell count and his immune system is almost completely gone, proving that the Anti-Life crystals or whatever-the-hell don't work perfectly to restore life/health).

So, here's the last bit when she's getting help from the game designer:



So she has a sexy new man friend who is actually sort of an old friend! Who hangs out in the shadows! That's nice. (I should clarify that he really didn't hang out in the shadows for the majority of his page time in this comic. I just think it's funny.)

Anywho, she manages to defeat the Calculator by cyber-beating him up, and follows him back to the hospital where he intends to use the Anti-Life crystals to cure his daughter Wendy. Pretty much as soon as he's in the room, Babs is right behind him, telling him how he's a jerk for risking using the crystals on Wendy. She tries to tell him that they're not a cure, but he's still insisting they'll wake Wendy from the coma--when suddenly! Wendy wakes up all on her own.





Okay, so apparently Wendy knew her father was the Calculator? Enough to call him "Daddy"? It's nice that Wendy's not dead, but I have to admit I was shocked at her legs apparently being paralysed. Babs going all "here's how I foiled your evil plan! Also I might kill you!" in front of the cops is rather sloppy, IMO.



And that, my dear scans_dailyians, is that.

If you're like me, you're relieved that Barbara Gordon is not the new Batgirl, but you are also saying "what the hell was that about?" I actually enjoyed bits of this issue, to my surprise. At least it was marginally better than the first two issues, which IMO seem rather useless in retrospect, and I'm still pissed about the way Barbara was written in them. (In issue #1, she's apparently ignorant of a popular Second Life/World of Warcraft-type game, in issue #2 she either killed or almost killed a couple of muggers in Hong Kong, and in both she has other people doing hacking-like things for her, which results in their endangerment and one of them getting killed.)

What's interesting is that the last months of Birds of Prey saw an editorial mandate for a change in tone of the book, as Tony Bedard says in this Newsarama article (read the whole thing, it's interesting):

Platinum Flats served as the backdrop for the second confrontation between the Joker and Oracle in the pages of Birds of Prey. Unlike the first confrontation, this encounter was purely physical. Although the Joker defeated Oracle in the issue, Bedard described that issue by saying, “That story morphed a bit. I originally had her busting out his teeth and he is so horrified that he runs away. It was supposed to be that she really hit a nerve there: he took her legs, so she takes his grin. But then the decision was made to cancel the series, and the whole direction of the book and the tone of the encounter needed to be different, and we ended up making it a much more even match.”


I ranted about this elsewhere, but the second-to-last issue of that Joker storyline genuinely seemed to be setting Babs up for a bigger victory over the Joker than what we got, rather than him throwing her down a flight of stairs. That negative tone with respect to Barbara continued to the last issue of BoP, which ended with her blowing up her HQ, abandoning her team, skipping town and leaving Misfit with a lousy note.

My understanding is that Barbara's part in Birds of Prey had to end off on a negative note in order to set her up for her depressing debut in her solo mini-series. Theoretically, starting off from a point of depression would make for a satisfying read if it ended on a high note. And let's face it, with the Omens & Origins bit from the last issue of BoP (which had Babs looking at her Batgirl costume and obsessing over the Joker's first attack on her), the announcement of a new Batgirl book, and DC's general concern with having their characters in their most recognizable, "iconic" forms, I don't think we were being paranoid for thinking Barbara Gordon might be wearing a batsuit yet again.

It seems odd that DC would deliberately change directions with the last few issues of Birds of Prey, to set Oracle up for her mini-series, with a Batgirl book supposedly to be released in June, then an urgent meeting about Batgirl in March, the Batgirl book being announced as coming out in August and the end of Oracle: The Cure not changing anything in Babs's life. (Additionally, if we're counting the other BftC titles, Oracle is not separated from the Birds or the Bats, but is actively working with them.)

What I'm wondering is, perhaps, DC was going to have Barbara Gordon go back to being Batgirl, but then thought better of it. Because Oracle: The Cure seems pretty useless in terms of plot or character development. It doesn't leave Barbara Gordon in any new place, or sets her up for a new series or with a team. At most, it means the Calculator is effectively defeated, and it changes the lives of the Calculator and Wendy, but I doubt either of them is going to be a major focus in any book (at least I hope not) (well, maybe Wendy'll go back to Teen Titans).

Either DC originally wanted to make Babs Batgirl, and then realized that would be stupid and have had to change things around since then. OR, they never had plans to do it and just went to a lot of effort to make people think that's what they were going to do, in order to generate hype. If it's the latter, then despite the fact that this series has pretty much nothing to do with Batman or the Battle for the Cowl, it is rather fitting that it is a Battle for the Cowl...for in my bitter humble opinion, Battle for the Cowl seems like all it's doing is killing time until the launch of the new Bat-books in June.

In other words, to quote Homer Simpson: "Exactly. It's just a bunch of stuff that happened."

But now that we know Barbara Gordon will not be Batgirl again, I am left with a new pressing question: in what book can I find Oracle in now? Batgirl, I guess?



(Post a new comment)


[info]batcookies
2009-05-13 09:10 pm UTC (link)

But now that we know Barbara Gordon will not be Batgirl again,


You sure about that?

Because on certain boards of a dc-related nature, people are speculating like mad on the significance of Wendy suddenly being paralyzed after a magic gizmo was used in the presence of Babs.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]parsimonia
2009-05-13 09:12 pm UTC (link)
It wasn't used, though. And is there anything to indicate that Wendy wasn't paralysed before this little scene? I had assumed that she had been paralysed this whole time, but her unconsciousness prevented her from being aware of it (and possibly her doctors from confirming it).

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]batcookies, 2009-05-13 09:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pyrotwilight, 2009-05-13 09:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]parsimonia, 2009-05-13 09:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]batcookies, 2009-05-13 09:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pyrotwilight, 2009-05-13 09:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]batcookies, 2009-05-13 09:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pyrotwilight, 2009-05-13 10:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]parsimonia, 2009-05-13 10:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]nevermore999, 2009-05-13 09:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pyrotwilight, 2009-05-13 09:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]parsimonia, 2009-05-13 09:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sistermagpie, 2009-05-13 10:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]parsimonia, 2009-05-13 10:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sistermagpie, 2009-05-13 10:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]parsimonia, 2009-05-13 10:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]felinephoenix, 2009-05-14 05:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ivy_hawthorne, 2009-05-13 11:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]parsimonia, 2009-05-13 11:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sistermagpie, 2009-05-14 08:57 am UTC

[info]milleniumrex
2009-05-13 09:30 pm UTC (link)
....Wow, if the new Batgirl series is about Barbara Gordon retaking the cowl after inadvertently stealing a teenage girl's mobility, that would just be...wow.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]parsimonia, 2009-05-13 09:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]milleniumrex, 2009-05-13 09:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]parsimonia, 2009-05-13 09:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pyrotwilight, 2009-05-13 09:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]merseybeatler, 2009-05-13 09:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]unknownscribler, 2009-05-14 02:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]parsimonia, 2009-05-14 02:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]unknownscribler, 2009-05-14 04:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]parsimonia, 2009-05-14 04:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]milleniumrex, 2009-05-14 10:45 pm UTC

[info]aaron_bourque
2009-05-14 12:55 am UTC (link)
Wouldn't said use imply someone nearby is also . . . comatose?

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]tahngarth
2009-05-13 09:36 pm UTC (link)
I see no indication in any of the scans that Barbara will NOT be Batgirl again. Where are you getting that from?

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]parsimonia
2009-05-13 09:41 pm UTC (link)
Hmm. But if they were going to do it, do you think they'd relegate that event to any of the other bat-books? That's assuming that Batgirl #1 will debut with the new Batgirl, of course.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]daningram
2009-05-13 09:36 pm UTC (link)
My comments from another board about the subject

Lets assume that Babs and Wendy switched spines (that's straight up dead baby comedy, I'm sorry) for the purpose of making Babs Batgirl again and making Wendy Oracle. So what has DC accomplished in that?

They've dropped Oracle from a well regarded position and heroine to a third stringer. There's no way Wendy brings the same credability that Babs brought, that Babs built up after years and years.

In addition, they seem to identify Oracle's position more with disability than say, brains. The chair is an important element of Babs' development, but it's not defining.

They've pushed aside a well developed bi-racial character. Cassandra Cain was a rare, successful minority character in a legacy role and she's been pushed to the side because the writers want to relive their childhood. Not a positive message that.

They've knocked Babs down to third string. I'm sorry, but Batgirl doesn't carry the same weight as Oracle, especially when you consider how far Babs had come as Oracle. If Dick went back to being Robin, I think most people would agree that it'd be a step backwards. The same applies here.

And last but not least, they've needlessly expanded the Bat family. No one else makes as much use of Oracle as the Bat-clan. All the roles needed, and then some, are filled. Another member isn't needed, especially when they have no idea what to do with the members they have now.

Ideally I'm wrong, but DC hasn't been that inspired of late

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]parsimonia, 2009-05-13 09:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kingrockwell, 2009-05-13 11:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sistermagpie, 2009-05-14 08:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]unknownscribler, 2009-05-14 02:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]daningram, 2009-05-14 02:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mysteryfan, 2009-05-17 10:30 am UTC

[info]thokstar
2009-05-13 09:55 pm UTC (link)
If we're going through the process of having Oracle switch body parts with a younger female character, can we get her a Canary cry as part of the deal?

[/very dry sarcasm]

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]pyrotwilight, 2009-05-13 10:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bluefall, 2009-05-13 10:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]thokstar, 2009-05-13 10:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bluefall, 2009-05-13 11:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]parsimonia, 2009-05-13 11:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]parsimonia, 2009-05-13 10:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bluefall, 2009-05-13 11:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]parsimonia, 2009-05-13 11:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]thebigapricot, 2009-05-14 07:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kingrockwell, 2009-05-14 09:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]parsimonia, 2009-05-14 09:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kingrockwell, 2009-05-14 10:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]parsimonia, 2009-05-14 10:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bluefall, 2009-05-14 10:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jarodrussell, 2009-05-14 10:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bluefall, 2009-05-14 11:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]scottyquick, 2009-05-15 04:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jarodrussell, 2009-05-15 04:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kingrockwell, 2009-05-14 11:11 am UTC

[info]nevermore999
2009-05-13 10:07 pm UTC (link)
I flipped to the back of this, saw Babs was still in a wheelchair, said "YES!" and put it back.

I think if Babs was to suddenly become Batgirl because of the crystals in BG #1, they'd have someone other than a guy who wrote a few Smallville episodes writing her return to the cowl. There's gotta be someone in DC who'd be all over that. So I'm cautiously optimistic we won't see Babsgirl. I think your theory, that they were going to but thought better, is correct.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]parsimonia, 2009-05-13 10:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2009-05-14 01:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tahngarth, 2009-05-14 03:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]yaseen101, 2009-05-14 04:49 am UTC

[info]pyrotwilight
2009-05-13 10:10 pm UTC (link)
Y'know the only thing I really want to see now is how this'll affect the Teen Titans soon.

It'd be really weird if they DIDN'T show up after hearing Wendy's alive since they seemed heavily concerned with her.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]bluefall, 2009-05-13 10:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pyrotwilight, 2009-05-13 10:21 pm UTC

[info]jlbarnett
2009-05-13 10:34 pm UTC (link)
I figure that Wendy will regain use of her legs. In the 80's when Babs was paralyzed, paralysis was considered it. You were done. In a chair or bed for the rest of your life. Nowadays you hear about people recovering from potentially paralyzing injuries more often.

Wendy will end up the new Batgirl with Babs teaching her. The purpose of the paralysis is to make us wonder which one will be walking in the new series and which one will be in a wheelchair.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]parsimonia, 2009-05-13 10:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jlbarnett, 2009-05-13 10:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]parsimonia, 2009-05-13 10:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sistermagpie, 2009-05-14 09:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jlbarnett, 2009-05-14 06:01 pm UTC

[info]bluejaybirdie
2009-05-13 11:01 pm UTC (link)
So, the series ends with a girl in her late teens being paralyzed below the waist. That's...subtle.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]scottyquick, 2009-05-13 11:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]parsimonia, 2009-05-13 11:32 pm UTC

[info]foxhack
2009-05-13 11:22 pm UTC (link)
Wendy's the new Batgirl.

Calling it! PLEASE prove me wrong! Please ;_;

(Reply to this)


[info]kingrockwell
2009-05-13 11:30 pm UTC (link)
I got another Birds trade with my weekly pulls today, and my LCS guy asked if I'd been keeping up with this mini. After I told him about my fears for the conclusion of it and the possible return of Babsgirl, he mentioned that he'd flipped to the end and she was still in her chair. I was relieved to hear it, but I've been waiting for someone to post context since. So, thanks.

Also, motto on pretty much everything. It's looking like with Batgirl #1 being advertised as next, my theory is she'll be playing a supporting role, like Bruce was in Batman Beyond. Wendy is looking to be a likely candidate for the cowl if it isn't Cass, though we'll just have to see how it turns out. I wonder if they're still having the "cat-fight for the cowl" (uuuuuggggggghhh) or if that was perhaps also scrapped at the big meeting?

What if we had a new Birds Of Prey, only they were all in Batgirl costumes? Like with Oracle employing Cass, Steph, Charlie, and maybe Wendy as her field ops? And it was Batgirls instead of Batgirl? Wouldn't that be kind of fantastic?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]parsimonia, 2009-05-13 11:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pyrotwilight, 2009-05-13 11:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]parsimonia, 2009-05-13 11:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bluefall, 2009-05-14 12:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]parsimonia, 2009-05-14 12:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bluefall, 2009-05-14 11:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]warpedhand, 2009-05-14 04:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]majingojira, 2009-05-14 08:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]scottyquick, 2009-05-15 05:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kingrockwell, 2009-05-15 09:34 pm UTC

[info]ivy_hawthorne
2009-05-13 11:45 pm UTC (link)
Thanks for the update - I couldn't make it to my LCS yet this week and have been dreading this issue. (Well, the whole damn mini.)

The writing is pretty horrible. I could make excuses for some of the gaping holes, but I'm tired of making excuses for DC. (Also tired of whining about Babs' chair looking like she borrowed it from hospital admissions instead of a sensible sporty model.)

Also, damn Gotham has some nice big hospital rooms. I can usually barely get my chair into one to visit somebody, and this one comfortably holds Babs, two cops wrestling the Calculator, and a doctor or two who somehow got in past the fight.

Also, people who wake up from comas are *always* instantly fully alert and capable! With possibly some helpful amnesia that doesn't affect anything other than a few plot points!

Not sure if I can bother to read BFTCowl. ...oh wait, Secret Six tie-in, gotta have that one. THe rest? Will flip through at the LCS, wince, and wait for the reboot. And continue to make sacrifices hoping for Dan DiDio's removal by the Time Warner folks.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]parsimonia, 2009-05-13 11:51 pm UTC

[info]icon_uk
2009-05-14 03:07 am UTC (link)
Okay, so apparently Wendy knew her father was the Calculator? Enough to call him "Daddy"?

Umm, is there something else in the issue that makes you say that? She calls him Daddy sure (Heck, Steph still calls her father Dad), but that doesn't automatically equate to knowing he's the Calculator.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]parsimonia, 2009-05-14 08:04 am UTC

[info]ex_stig213
2009-05-14 03:22 am UTC (link)
When the CEO of Coca-Cola was asked if the fiasco over the creation of "New Coke" and the breaking of a 'covenant' with America had been an elaborate, calculated stunt to divert consumers from Pepsi back to Coke Classic, he gave a simple reply, one which the DC Editors could easily apply to the recent Batgirl developments: "We're Not That Smart, And We're Not That Stupid."

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]unknownscribler, 2009-05-14 02:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kitty_tc_69, 2009-05-14 04:02 pm UTC

(Deleted post)
(no subject) - [info]parsimonia, 2009-05-14 08:06 am UTC

[info]espanolbot
2009-05-14 05:12 am UTC (link)
Huh, if Barbara really has stolen Wendy's spine (...yeah) in order to be Batgirl, can we start presuming that she's going to turn into some sort of organ/attribute stealing character?

Like, "Hm, I'm now kind of old to be Batgirl now... I'll steal Lian Harper's youth! She's been four years old for the past ten or so years, she won't mind! And I'll take Power-Girl's boobs too, just to mess with her!"

(Reply to this)


[info]kenn_el
2009-05-14 09:43 am UTC (link)
As per usual, there's plenty of excitement over Bart and Barry and Conner all returning from DEATH, but whining and moaning at the prospect of Babs actually using her connection to the wider DCU as a way of regaining mobility. WHERE is it written that she would have to become a 'Bat' character again? Where it written that she couldn't be 'Batwoman", for example? After all, Batwoman is headlining upcoming Detectives, and that was Babs' original title. Or Babs could just not put on a costume at all. BUT she's no longer relegated to Gotham solely and could surely be as resourceful in finding a cure for paralysis in a universe where blindness, paralysis and death are regularly overcome. I know some feel that the wheelchair and paralysis define her character, but it should be determination and perseverance that we get out of Babs' history, rather than her victimhood. Then again, as usual, I have no problem with women who can both walk AND think. YMMV.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]parsimonia, 2009-05-14 10:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kenn_el, 2009-05-14 11:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]neuhallidae, 2009-05-14 02:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bluefall, 2009-05-14 02:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]neuhallidae, 2009-05-14 02:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2009-05-14 02:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kitty_tc_69, 2009-05-14 03:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bluefall, 2009-05-14 10:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kenn_el, 2009-05-14 11:21 am UTC

[info]jarodrussell
2009-05-14 11:20 am UTC (link)
I'd make some comment, but after so many years of seeing Oracle downgraded from cyber-goddess to "I didn't make a back up of my files" to this craziness to being saved by the Nerd Herd to...whatever the hell happened in the last issue of Birds...I don't have anything to add.

(Reply to this)


[info]kitty_tc_69
2009-05-14 02:58 pm UTC (link)
I know it's an unpopular position here, but put me solidly in the "Babsgirl" camp. And if it means taking Wendy, a character who was imported from Superfriends of all damned things and by all rights shouldn't even exist in a sane universe, and sticking her in a chair to become a new Oracle to clear the slate for the return of the one true Batgirl, I'm all for it. Sign me right the fuck up.

Seriously... Marvin Wendy and Wonder Dog. Do any of you even remember them from Superfriends? I do. I was like five years old watching that crap on TV and wishing someone would drop a bus on them or something even then. They always sucked, and I laughed my ass off when I heard that Wonder Dog had gone nuts and eaten them both. I was kinda hoping that would be the end of all three of them, never to be heard of again, but if we get a new Oracle and the return of Batgirl out of the deal I'd call that turning pure garbage into fine wine.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ashtoreth, 2009-05-14 11:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kitty_tc_69, 2009-05-14 11:56 pm UTC

[info]mykie1234
2009-05-14 04:21 pm UTC (link)
This may seem ridiculous but the only reason I dont think Barbara will be the new Batgirl is her hair color.

I know thats crazy but I cant see them having a redheaded Batwoman (who we know will be headlining her own brilliantly drawn comic) and a redheaded Batgirl.

I still say the new Batgirl comic is Barbara as the mentor/handler and Stephanie as Batgirl and if we are lucky Cass still in there either as a Batgirl or combat specialist.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]parsimonia, 2009-05-14 05:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mykie1234, 2009-05-14 07:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kitty_tc_69, 2009-05-15 02:31 pm UTC

[info]mykie1234
2009-05-14 04:22 pm UTC (link)
Also, the ambiguousness of this whole mini was to create just the type of internet discussion and hype that is actually happening right now. Well played DC!

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]parsimonia, 2009-05-14 05:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mykie1234, 2009-05-14 07:11 pm UTC

[info]mysteryfan
2009-05-15 04:01 pm UTC (link)
Hmm. This annoys me. I will go with your exceptional quote:

In other words, to quote Homer Simpson: "Exactly. It's just a bunch of stuff that happened."

I think I'm at the place where I can actually enjoy the crazy rumors, though. Maybe. Maybe not, but today I caught, 'Cass will become the new Huntress' and I was like ahhhh. Whatever. I know what I want, but I don't think you're going to give it to me. Should I just hope for the least collateral damage?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]parsimonia, 2009-05-15 04:18 pm UTC



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