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Tweak says, "fax me bro"

arbre_rieur (arbre_rieur) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-05-07 22:22:00

Entry tags:

creator: mark waid, title: irredeemable

Irredeemable #2: More backstory on the Plutonian
Mark Waid brings up one of the chief complaints people have about the way Superman's secret identity is handled (no, not the glasses), as he provides a little more backstory on the Plutonian, the man who went from the world's greatest hero to its worst villain.

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	arbre_rieur 2009-05-08 01:49 pm UTC (link)
	In the comics Waid wrote, both characters' actions were definitely portrayed as a "bad thing," to use box_in_the_box's terminology. Meltzer's run, which I've never read, might be another story. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

box_in_the_box
2009-05-08 02:08 pm UTC (link)

I'm trying to find quotes from Waid online, because regardless of what he wrote, I could swear that he defended Batman and J'onn's deceptions in interviews - which, if his intent really was to show that Batman and J'onn were still right, does present an interesting, but not at all unusual, disconnect between Waid's intent and his output.

Waid is sort of weirdly schizophrenic about Batman, anyway, because in spite of claiming guys like Superman and Captain America as his favorite heroes, Waid is also the guy who's flat-out stated, "Batman always wins because Batman cheats," which is a weirdly self-loathing attitude for a Silver Age fanboy to have.

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starwolf_oakley
2009-05-08 02:50 pm UTC (link)

Waid was worse with Wonder Woman, and not in a misogynistic way, but in an "I don't understand the Amazons" way.

Waid's Wonder Woman is Fighty McFighterton. Her talk about peace and understanding is just that: talk.

And, as bluefall can tell you, that Fighty McFighterton POV carried on to other Wonder Woman writers. Like the only way to show how strong Diana is is through her fighting prowess.

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box_in_the_box
2009-05-08 03:09 pm UTC (link)

Well, to be fair, with guy writers, the only way that a lot of them know how to show how strong ANY character is is through their fighting prowess, and ESPECIALLY with female characters, where they don't want to be accused of making the character seem "weak" by not fighting all the time.

An acquaintance of mine who read Kingdom Come put it best: "Waid's Wonder Woman is a clueless guy's idea of what a strong woman is like."

Again, Waid's schizophrenia really comes through, because for all his talk about the morally superior person winning, his idea of a positive portrayal for Wonder Woman is to make her a tough brawler. It reminds me of his take on Captain America, in which he insisted that Cap's no-kill policy was what made Cap morally superior to other heroes, but then, in the stories themselves, the only way he's able to maintain it is via incredibly contrived deus ex machinas that Cap couldn't even be credited with.

Every once in a while, I wonder if Waid isn't a Willy Loman of Silver Age fandom, desperately trying to sell himself on a bill of goods that he no longer believes in.

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	starwolf_oakley 2009-05-08 02:42 pm UTC (link)
	Meltzer just did that on one flashback page of JUSTICE LEAGUE AMERICA #0. Superman is all "I understand protocols for me, but why Wally and Kyle?" Diana is all "You've gotten worse since Jason's death, and this proves it." Batman is all "You're just mad they worked. I'm Batman." (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

icon_uk
2009-05-08 03:32 pm UTC (link)

Meltzer's Superman is an arrogant little shit isn't he? The thing is Superman is that it's called "mind control". So yeah, why would Batman consider someone who is technically faster than Clark and could kill a couple of thousand people a second just by poking his vibrating hand through their brains a menace, or a guy armed with a weapon capable of holding a disintegrating planet together...

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box_in_the_box
2009-05-08 05:45 pm UTC (link)

If I was going to be charitable, I'd say that it's part of Superman's Midwestern farm boy apprehension about his own powers, where he's afraid of what might happen if his own powers are turned toward bad ends (if I recall correctly, Superman gave Batman Lex Luthor's Kryptonite ring for safe keeping).

But it was written by Brad Meltzer, so fuck being charitable; you're right, it is prickish.

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