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girl inform me (onherwings) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-03-03 22:21:00

Entry tags:

char: deadpool/wade wilson, char: lady bullseye/maki matsumoto, char: white tiger/angela del toro, publisher: marvel comics, title: daredevil

one more for the fridge
So back in 2006 I heard that Tamora Pierce (most famous for the Tortall series beginning with Alanna: the First Adventure) was collaborating with her husband, Tim Liebe, on a limited series run for Marvel that would detail the origins of a new White Tiger in the Daredevil cosmos.

Cool, I said, because even with her faults (this poster likes to pretend the Immortals quartet did not happen) Pierce writes some pretty genuinely kick-ass heroines.

Excited to see what she would do with the super-heroine trope, I picked up the whole run of White Tiger.

I should also make it clear at the get-go: I'm primarily a DC fangirl, so my knowledge of Daredevil and the history of the White Tiger character is slim to resting solely on the firm conviction that Ben Affleck looked terrible in a red rubber body condom.

I'll spare you all the full-blown Wikipedia summary, but the gist of the new White Tiger's story is that Angela del Toro, FBI agent, is given her uncle's mystical amulets, endowing her with superhuman strength, speed, fighting prowess-- basically the typical superhero power-up.

And naturally, she fights crime-- in this case, with a little, er, help from a friend:

The new White Tiger was a strong, competent, capable crime fighter-- who also happened to be a woman. By the logic of comics, this means that her next appearance after the end of the White Tiger limited series came in Daredevil #113-- with her murder by Lady Bullseye (and later resurrection as an evil assassin, natch).

Yeah.

Pierce's reaction is pretty much in line with mine.

Dead ain't dead in comics, and evil ain't evil for long, I know, but it's still-- one more dead super-heroine, you know?

When's that going to get less fun?

(Post a new comment)

	pyrotwilight 2009-03-03 10:27 pm UTC (link)
	Well crap. They killed her? I thought she wasn't being used is all. Godammit. And that Deadpool meeting was gold. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	foxhack 2009-03-03 10:48 pm UTC (link)
	They made her a Hand zombie. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	onherwings 2009-03-04 11:01 am UTC (link)
	Yeah, it's just kind of... seriously? That's the best you can come up with, Marvel? Bleah. (Reply to this) (Parent)

bariman1987
2009-03-03 10:58 pm UTC (link)

Three pages. You make me like a character in three pages. And then you tell me she's dead and evil. Goddammit Marvel.

How many times has Electra been killed then raised as a Hand assassin? Or hell, just say that her mystical amulets provide her with anti-evil protection, so she gets rezzed, kicks much Hand ass, then escapes.

I see a new character and like her, find out she was killed, then immediately start imagining ways she can be alive and not evil. What is wrong with me?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	foxhack 2009-03-03 11:01 pm UTC (link)
	"What is wrong with me?" You try to fix the mistakes other people make? (That said, if White Tiger doesn't get fixed after this Daredevil story arc finishes, I'm going to be PISSED OFF.) (Reply to this) (Parent)

	mykie1234 2009-03-03 11:12 pm UTC (link)
	Dont worry. The Hand did the same thing with Wolvie, Elektra, and Northstar. All are normal now... or as normal as they were before death... (Reply to this) (Parent)

	aaron_bourque 2009-03-03 11:54 pm UTC (link)
	dead and evil You know why I love comics? Because you can have that sequence, in that order, and actually have it be a valid character arc. Aaron "The Mad Whitaker" Bourque; valid, but usually stupid. And that's why I hate comics, sometimes. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	onherwings 2009-03-04 10:58 am UTC (link)
	The rest of the limited series is just as good! I promise it's worth the 10 or 12 bucks for the TP. (the mystical amulet evil-protection might work, only Daredevil #113 shows her taking it off before her murder... so maybe if someone could put it back on her? I'm right there with you, trying to make this work somehow) (Reply to this) (Parent)

	bwmedia.wordpress.com 2009-03-04 07:36 pm UTC (link)
	I felt the same way when I picked up the second half of the Superman/Lantern team-up against Mongol in back-issue, fell in love with Alex (not that way), and then heard only a few issues later she named the worst trope in modern comics. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	scottyquick 2009-03-05 10:15 pm UTC (link)
	I strongly recommend the trade, it's awesome and funny and has fight scenes that make sense! (Reply to this) (Parent)

kosaginolegion
2009-03-04 07:15 am UTC (link)

I got to hear a few comments from Tim on the matter at Confluence. He wasn't unpleasant about it but from the sound of things, I wouldn't have blamed him if he had been.

As for Realms of the Gods, that's one I tried to re-read recently and was noting how close to the edge the main character came to Mary-Sue-dom. (Okay, she walked over a few times, too.) But there were some good characters in there.

(Though she killed off my favorite. I've liked stormwings ever since because of him.)

(Reply to this) (Thread)

onherwings
2009-03-04 10:46 am UTC (link)

It seems like they're being pretty classy about the whole thing, even if it seems like White Tiger's murder was almost a deliberate slap in the face (especially considering that Pierce is known for her strong heroines), so good on them.

I can read and re-read the Protector of the Small books and her new Terrier series, but the Alanna and Immortals books are best left as relics of my adolescence.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

kosaginolegion
2009-03-04 04:41 pm UTC (link)

Tamora is involved with a group that helps young would-be writers. I don't know the details, as I'm long past the age that I could be involved as a student, but she's cool people, even when I don't always agree with her.

As for Tim, he's really fun to talk to. I'm looking forward to seeing them both this summer.

The Ring of Magic series is pretty good, too. But I can see your point about the other two. They're better mind-candy than some I could name.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

morgana006
2009-03-04 07:36 am UTC (link)

Yeah, that was one of the first reactions I had when I saw the final scan. That and "Jeeze. You guys didn't even try to use her!"

I thought she should've had a great team-up with Hellcat.

One of the weirder things about the original mini was that I was so familiar with Tamora Pierce's writing that I could tell it was her even if it didn't have her name in GIGANTIC LETTERS on the cover. */random side-note*

(Reply to this) (Thread)

onherwings
2009-03-04 10:42 am UTC (link)

Yeah, it just sticks in my throat that they basically forget all about White Tiger for two years or so (?) and then finally bring her back into the Daredevil 'verse... and stick a sword in her chest first thing.

And what REALLY irritates me is that later in the same storyline, White Tiger lures another Daredevil ally into sharing her fate as a Hand zombie, and his presumably similar murder happens entirely off panel.

So showing a) a woman with a sword sticking out of her chest, b)the same woman with wide, fearful eyes and blood gurgling out of her mouth and c) that woman's bloodied corpse is a-OK with Marvel, but if the victim happens to be a dude? Off panel! Nice.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

joysweeper
2009-03-04 10:16 am UTC (link)

I liked the Immortals quartet. More when I was younger than now, yeah, but I liked the various immortals, and I wish other books had featured them as prominently. Intelligent nonhumans make things interesting.

It's the two big Trickster books that I despise. Gods, I hated Aly, despite having a name similar to mine. Look, I hate a heroine who's always uncertain, liked by people for absolutely no reason, and who has to lean on everyone, but apparently I also hate a heroine whose self-confidence is never, ever shaken. At least when she's the viewpoint character. I think I'd have liked her from the viewpoint of someone with some doubts. At any rate, those are my least favorite of Pierce's books, and I love Pierce.

Protector of the Small was my favorite series. *sigh* White Tiger seems cool. Naturally they couldn't use her.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

onherwings
2009-03-04 10:29 am UTC (link)

I think I'd like the Immortals quartet better if Daine didn't get a ridiculous power-up in every freakin' book: she can talk to animals! she can turn into animals! she can make dead things come back to life! ...she's a (half?) goddess! That and her hooking up with Numair really squicked me out.

I'm actually in the middle of reading the Trickster books for the first time, and I'm inclined to agree with you about how annoying Aly is--I'm just not sure if Daine or Aly rates higher on the Mary Sue-O-Meter.

Kel's my favorite too! I'm also liking the Terrier books so far.

As for poor White Tiger, yeah, her murder just reads like such a slap in the face to Pierce and almost everything she's known for as a YA author.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

joysweeper
2009-03-04 11:14 am UTC (link)

Dinosaur zombies wasn't her power, it was what the Graveyard Hag lent to her. And Daine didn't realize she and Numair were mutually attracted until she was sixteen or seventeen, I think. Still, it's annoying how Pierce's heroines practically always end up with men that are so much older than they are. When I first read those books I was so convinced of the rightness of Daine being so special, and subsequent re-readings are a little tinged by nostalgia.

Heh. Alanna just might top them both. I really like Alanna as a supporting character, though. A lot of the time a Mary-Sue is made more palatable when she's fleshed out and not the main character.

I loved Kel. She was awesome. And Badass Normal, which was nice. I'm convinced she had a touch of Wild Magic, little enough that there was no use in training it, and the Chamber liked her, but otherwise... Besides, I liked her supporting cast. I just think that those books are maybe the most powerful yet. No idea how Pierce went from Kel to Aly. It was like a night-and-day shift. Becca seems cool too. The next book comes out this month!

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

onherwings
2009-03-04 01:21 pm UTC (link)

Oh, that's right-- it's been so long since I read the books, I'd forgotten about the Graveyard Hag. Thanks for the catch! And yeah, I thought their relationship for most of the books was in a father/daughter kind of place, and then almost literally out of nowhere Pierce took it from that type of family-analogous relationship to a romantic one.

...and that's probably about 40% of the reason why I like Kel so much-- she doesn't get a Romantic Interest attached to her purely for the sake of being paired off before the end of her series.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

neuhallidae
2009-03-04 02:29 pm UTC (link)

This may just be me, but my favorite thing about the Lioness Quartet is that it didn't follow the "you'll only ever be with one person ever" plot, and had multiple members of the main cast having more than one romance before finding someone they wanted to settle down with. Even with all the other Sue elements to it, that made me feel so much better as a teenager, because my first 'love' had ended badly, and this was the first series I'd read that didn't have "one true soulmate" as a big part of it.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

kentsplace
2009-03-04 12:57 pm UTC (link)

I enjoyed the white Tiger TPB. I probaly would have stuck with the character because the trade felt like her Tortall novels, very much the intro to a trilogy or possibly a four book series.

But, crap what a waste to kill her off in a single page. Marvel is even worse than most companies for dead does not mean dead, but as they have not asked for Pierce to come back and do more work for them it feels like this character will not be back.

I echo many of the other post that Protector of the Small is excellent, and that Trickster was annoying.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

onherwings
2009-03-04 01:36 pm UTC (link)

I really wish Pierce had gotten the chance to do more with White Tiger-- it would've been really neat to watch her continue to fight crime and the story arcs that would've developed. Instead, Marvel first ignored White Tiger's existence, and then randomly reintroduced her for the sole purpose of killing her off.

After that, I wouldn't blame Pierce if she pulled a Whedon and stayed away from comics for good.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	goblin1138 2009-03-04 09:49 pm UTC (link)
	seriously, way to attract the female fanbase there. she'll be back, but it still pisses me off. (Reply to this)

	scottyquick 2009-03-05 10:04 pm UTC (link)
	Cheebus Maleev, was the OMGSEXY pose at the end necessary? At all? I'm still pissed as hell about this. Bendis really set her up with the potential to be a long-term supporting character in Daredevil, and Brubaker only uses her to kill her off. Yeah, wtf? (Reply to this)

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