InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "but we can't do it here"

queenursula (queenursula) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-04-28 23:18:00

Entry tags:

char: hardball/roger brokeridge, char: komodo/melati kusuma, char: scorpion/carmilla black, char: taskmaster, char: typhoid mary/mary walker, creator: christos gage, creator: humberto ramos, publisher: marvel comics, title: avengers the initiative

Avengers: The Initiative #23

Also, Justice and the other New Warriors blow the lid on the Initiative's cloning of MVP, giving Norman an excuse to take it over. Good job, assholes.

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	ghosty732 2009-04-28 11:09 pm UTC (link)
	Komodo :( Do we see what happened to her? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	pyrotwilight 2009-04-28 11:34 pm UTC (link)
	Nah, her story ended there in the issue. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	mullon 2009-04-28 11:09 pm UTC (link)
	Uh oh, Norman can see the captions now. Only a matter of time before he sees us. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	greenmask 2009-04-29 09:14 am UTC (link)
	That honestly makes me a little afraid. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	thanekos 2009-04-28 11:25 pm UTC (link)
	oh, Hardball. you just HAD to plunder the SPIN canister Tony would try and use on rampaging Hulk, didn't you? (Reply to this)

	ex_menagerie993 2009-04-29 12:17 am UTC (link)
	Wow. Dear lord in hell, the New Warriors are just getting lamer and lamer. Playing into everyone's hands. Also, reptile girl becomes amputee girl? I can practically hear the sonic boom of some Japanese otaku as he masturbates to it. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	(Anonymous) 2009-04-29 02:00 am UTC (link)
	Lame? They just did what was right. It's those criminals Gauntlet, Gyrich and Blitzschlag who are to blame if Osborn closed the Camp Hammond. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	queenursula 2009-04-29 05:27 am UTC (link)
	No, it's their fault; Osborn wouldn't have known about it if they didn't tell everyone. I mean, fine, tell MVP's parents and whatnot. But the entire public? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	daningram 2009-04-29 05:49 am UTC (link)
	Because that'd be a coverup and the people responsible would never be held accountable? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	queenursula 2009-04-29 06:09 am UTC (link)
	When the other option results in Norman taking over, it's the lesser of the two evils. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

daningram
2009-04-29 06:20 am UTC (link)

Taking over? Norman already *took* over. All Justice did was give him a reason to sell closing the camp to the public. Hell, Clor was probably all he needed, MYP's death is just more sympathetic.

And honestly, if Norman had to engineer a reason (as he's done in the past), does anyone really think that there wouldn't have been a bodycount? MVP's death happened a while ago and there was still no accounting. Sometimes you have to do the right thing no matter who benefits. At least this way it's Justice revealing the truth and not Norman, who would spin it as best would help him.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ashtoreth 2009-04-29 09:49 am UTC (link)
	The problem is that comics need irony. Justice would never do the right thing unless there is an ironic bad side. Now that doing the right thing causes harm, oh yeah, that's when the writers decide to let the characters act civic-minded. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

daningram
2009-04-29 10:10 am UTC (link)

Justice has been acting civic minded for a while, actually. He was the one who uncovered the MVP cover-up, and he was the one who organized the current New Warriors team and saved the MVP clone from being mind wiped. Not only that, but he also confronted the last New Warriors team to make sure that they were competent.

Justice has hardly been sitting on his butt this entire team. I can't think of a time he's been better since New Warriors.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ashtoreth 2009-04-29 10:41 am UTC (link)
	I know, but.. due to this being a story, he waits until a really bad time to expose the death. Irony! (Reply to this) (Parent)

	xdoop 2009-04-29 09:50 pm UTC (link)
	I sent Gage an e-mail. He responded, "I think Norman would have found another excuse to do what he wanted to, but who knows how exactly it would have played out? This is definitely something Justice will be thinking about in the future!" (Reply to this) (Parent)

icon_uk
2009-04-29 06:54 am UTC (link)

Yes, how DARE they expose shady dealings, cover-up and breach of just about every civil liberty notion imaginable.

As noted, Justice and the NW did the RIGHT thing, it's originally Gyrich's team and now Osborne who did the WRONG thing.

That doesn't make what the NW did any less right.

That'd be like saying Batman shouldn't bother stop the Joker this time, because he's only going to get away and do horrible things NEXT time. He might, but at least if he does stop him, he helps the current group.

Or is it better that kids like Cloud 9 continue to become battle hardned soldiers against their will?

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

daningram
2009-04-29 07:00 am UTC (link)

Word.

I mean hell, it's not as if Norman couldn't have found out the crap with MVP by himself anyways. The coverup is what led to Gyrich being removed and I doubt that there wasn't a report filed about that (odd though, that they neglected to return MVP's body).

And hell, it's not like Justice revealed the worst of it, like how they strapped an unknown WMD onto a clone that then went insane as a result of memories he got from the original.

If anything, Justice saved Stamford from any attempts to close the base that Norman might have engineered. Norman shot down a passenger plane to test out Pepper Potts' spiffy new armor. Can we say collaterial damage?

(Reply to this) (Parent)

queenursula
2009-04-29 08:27 am UTC (link)

Yes, how DARE they expose shady dealings, cover-up and breach of just about every civil liberty notion imaginable.

Yes, which led to the replacement of people with good intentions to people like Norman Osborn. Things are going to be worse, not better.

That'd be like saying Batman shouldn't bother stop the Joker this time, because he's only going to get away and do horrible things NEXT time. He might, but at least if he does stop him, he helps the current group.

If anything, that's just an argument for why he should kill the Joker.

However, Batman not stopping an immediate threat is not comparable to Justice keeping quiet about something that if revealed would only lead to more problems.

Or is it better that kids like Cloud 9 continue to become battle hardned soldiers against their will?

And things will be better for her now that Norman's in charge?

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

icon_uk
2009-04-29 08:51 am UTC (link)

Yes, which led to the replacement of people with good intentions to people like Norman Osborn. Things are going to be worse, not better.

They were always going to get worse. AFAIK Osborne already controls everything to do with the Initiative, this doesn't imapct on that one way or the other, excpet highlighting to the population the corruption in the system they so embraced.

If anything, that's just an argument for why he should kill the Joker.

No, it's really not, because that's not Batman's mission statement and never has been. If the Police and Arkham can't contain the Joker, despite the funding he supplies as Bruce Wayne, that's not HIS problem per se.

However, Batman not stopping an immediate threat is not comparable to Justice keeping quiet about something that if revealed would only lead to more problems.

"more problems" which were already there and waiting to pounce.

And things will be better for her now that Norman's in charge?

Who knows, he shut the camp didn't he? Have we seen what's happening to the inmates?

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ashtoreth 2009-04-29 09:53 am UTC (link)
	He said elsewhere they'd be given the chance to work with his people. I think the scene of the instructers quitting came awhile ago, didn't it? (Reply to this) (Parent)

tavella
2009-04-29 03:16 pm UTC (link)

fiat justitia ruat caelum

Rhodey, Gyrich, and the rest of the Initiative staff are loathsome slugs who have helped create this world through their disdain for law, justice, and humanity. They and the other pro-regs created Norman Osborne, emperor of the world, and it is only just that they should be destroyed by him.

Not, of course, that they'll get what is coming to them, since they are, per Marvel, Great Big Heroes for said contempt for law, justice, and humanity.

But what shit they are forced to eat is certainly enjoyable.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	strangething.livejournal.com 2009-04-29 12:31 am UTC (link)
	She lost her powers and her legs fell off? I believe the term is "No Ontological Inertia (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NoOntologicalInertia)". (Reply to this) (Thread)

	liliaeth 2009-04-29 02:29 am UTC (link)
	Actually no, it was revealed previously, that she took the lizard formula specifically because of the missing legs. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	vignettelante 2009-04-29 05:59 am UTC (link)
	As that page puts it, Connors' arm has No Ontological Inertia. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	statham1986 2009-04-29 01:27 am UTC (link)
	Wasn't it already established that in her human form, she had no legs? I was under the impression her powers were based on a derivative of Curt Connor's Lizard formula, which, in the same fashion as Komodo's legs, brought his arm back. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	comicoz 2009-04-29 08:29 am UTC (link)
	I'm really confused, actually. I need to go back and look, but I know Hardball has seen her in non-powered form before (when she fell asleep on a plane or something?) and the only comment was that she was hot? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	queenursula 2009-04-29 08:34 am UTC (link)
	I think the point was he didn't care that she had no legs. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	comicoz 2009-04-29 09:26 am UTC (link)
	I thought she had legs then and only recently lost them. I could have completely missed that though. Gives me a good excuse to roam through a few early issues. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

demonomicon
2009-04-29 08:43 pm UTC (link)

Having read Initiative from the start, I'll try clearing this up.

Komodo (Melati Kusuma) has always been missing her legs (she lost them in a car accident). Because of this, she studied to get taken on as a research assistant by Dr. Connors (I believe there's a panel of her working in the lab in a wheelchair). She worked out a revised version of the Lizard formula and used it to assume her Komod form, restoring her legs. In fact, Connors praises her to the Initiative staff at one point for improving his formula, removing the rampaging supervillain problem (though it only works for Melati).

This is why in issue #3 (I believe) she deperately begs War Machine not to use the SPIN tech on her, and why she's initially so upset that Hardball saw her untransformed state.

Hope that cleared things up.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

comicoz
2009-04-30 07:25 am UTC (link)

Yup, you're dead on.

The first time the reader appears to be told is in #8 when she turns human so she can do the nasty with Hardball. He then says he "saw ALL of her" in issue 3 when she switches to human mode, although in issue 3 you do not see the missing legs. Even in #8 it's not easy to tell. I didn't notice until I looked that the pants she's wearing are now deflated. The characters never actually say "Wow, no legs!"

(Reply to this) (Parent)

tahngarth
2009-04-29 02:36 am UTC (link)

Scorpion went evil? Sigh, I -liked- her. With that and Komodo looking like she's far up crap creek without a paddle, it just goes to prove that being a newcomer in a Marvel or DC superhero comic is more or less a death sentence. Maybe the New Warriors franchise can be Marvel's answer to the Titans, where young heroes go to be fridged?

Second, Mary dropped her "Mutant Zero" moniker and outfit as soon as she was outed, didn't she? Because the readers finding out means the MU at large does too, right? Oh comics.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	daningram 2009-04-29 07:42 am UTC (link)
	Actually, she went back to her old uniform because they're in Mandipoor, where shanky outfits draw less atention than paramilitary outfits. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	icon_uk 2009-04-29 07:46 am UTC (link)
	Though the DO refer to her out loud as Typhoid Mary, rather than, say, "Zero". (Reply to this) (Parent)

	long_silence 2009-04-29 06:57 pm UTC (link)
	I don't even understand why Scorpion would be with HYDRA other than the green hair. Wouldn't AIM make more sense for her? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	outlawpoet 2009-04-29 07:29 pm UTC (link)
	she hates her mother, who is in charge of AIM. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	long_silence 2009-04-29 07:59 pm UTC (link)
	I know that, but I think it would be more interesting to have the character join AIM, an organization she at least has a connection with, than randomly joining HYDRA. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	trueredorion 2009-04-29 09:39 pm UTC (link)
	No, her mother is dead. She got blown up real good by the Living Laser and MODOK is once again in charge. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	xdoop 2009-04-29 09:48 pm UTC (link)
	It was revealed she was still alive in New Avengers: The Reunion #2 (the Hawkeye/Mockingbird miniseries) . (Reply to this) (Parent)

	Scorpion? Nah. proteus_lives 2009-04-29 02:42 am UTC (link)
	It's a double-cross. $10 says that Hardball is deep undercover, stranded when SHIELD dissolved and that SPIN round is short-term. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	Re: Scorpion? Nah. majingojira 2009-04-29 03:59 pm UTC (link)
	Hell, the fact that Scorpion is there makes it all the more likely, IMO. If it's played straight as "EEEEVIL" I'll be soorly disappointed. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Re: Scorpion? Nah. demonomicon 2009-04-29 08:50 pm UTC (link)
	This is my guess as well - both Hardball and Scorpion are doing some kind of complex deep-cover double agent operation. At least I hope, because Scorpion's a character I like and randomly making her evil would be completely stupid... ...which actually makes it likelier given how Marvel does things these days. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	greenmask 2009-04-29 09:19 am UTC (link)
	As a little capsule of story, I actually rather enjoyed that. To my surprise! Cool. (Reply to this)