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tsuki_the_geek (tsuki_the_geek) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-04-06 18:45:00

Entry tags:

char: batman/bruce wayne, char: robin/red hood/jason todd, publisher: dc comics, title: batman

The History of Jason Todd (Part 2) -- Starting in Short-Pants
So here is the long delayed (sorry, computer problems!) Part 2 of my look at post-Crisis Jason Todd (i.e. the second Second Robin). Part 1 can be found here, and thanks to icon_uk who has posted two great posts looking at the first, pre-Crisis version of Jason Todd.

When we last left Jason, he had just "aquired" the Robin suit (in 3 different ways). So now let's see how he uses it...

The 1980s comics don't highlight Robin's "VERY first" night out, so Nightwing: Year One tackles that with Jason running through a Batman-sidekick "test" known as The Gauntlet. As fate may have it, he runs into his predecessor during the run... and Dick had NO idea that the Dark Knight was hiring, let alone giving away his suit:

Best. Panel. Ever.

You know, I'd like to cut Jason a LITTLE slack. I mean, he's a brat but he's not the CRIMINAL that Dick seems to want to paint him as, right? Right...?

*headdesk* Okay, maybe he is... in fact, there's a VERY clear theme of Jason being especially un-Robin-like. Here are some scenes from Gotham Knights 43 to help you see what I mean:

*gulp* Who knew a kid in a blouse and panties could be so threatening?

Huh, AND he can pull off stubbing out a cigarrette in pixie shoes... (and yes, THAT one is a cigarrette)

But both of these examples are post-Death and near resurrection. Going back to the 1980s we won't find anything like that, right?

(from Batman #415)

WTF!? "Hold off" does not mean "pick up a gun and shoot at" last time I checked. Seriously, does anyone know if any other Robin has been pictured using a gun? Jason picks one up a FEW times in the 80s-- for example, I think he uses one in Batman: The Cult as well.

But backing up a bit, Jason's first featured time out in the 80s (Batman #411) also has him flying off the handle in the violence catagory a bit:

Okay, so yelling "I'll kill you" doesn't put a lot of points in the "hero" catagory, but--to be fair--he has an understandable (and common for Robins) reason here. Namely? Parent issues and Batdickery...

But like a good little Robin, Jason does NOT try to kill Two-Face next time he and Batman face him... so one would assume this isn't so different than Dick's confrontation of Zucko or Jason Todd #1s confrontation of Killer Croc. At least it wouldn't be any different if this Jason Todd didn't seem constantly on the verge of killing someone!

Next post-- the famous "Did he or didn't he push him?" scene, more JT violence, and Robin II's time with the Teen Titans!

(Post a new comment)

	merseybeatler 2009-04-06 10:28 pm UTC (link)
	It's hard for me to look at these without stifling laughter. They tried oh so hard for the 'edgy' thing, and look how that ended... On the other hand, that second panel on the last page with Jason gasping in shock is really awfully drawn - it looks for all the world as though he's got a massive overbite and beaver teeth. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	tsuki_the_geek 2009-04-06 11:02 pm UTC (link)
	hands Jason a piece of wood to gnaw on/make a dam out of OM NOM NOM NOM! Yeah, I personally think the "edgy" tone is worse in his first appearance-- "I graduated along time ago... from the STREETS OF CRIME ALLEY!" just cracks me up every time. But yes, as much as I love this Robin I can see WHY people wanted him dead when they were given the choice. ~__~;; (Reply to this) (Parent)

	wheresmything 2009-04-07 12:59 am UTC (link)
	tries to examine scans critically is hopelessly distracted by the awesomeness of Dick's collar (Reply to this)

icon_uk
2009-04-07 02:13 am UTC (link)

Bruce quite plausibly made the case that he shouldn't allow his own phobic reaction to the thought of using guns to prevent his Robin's from knowing how to handle firearms.

Dick apparently aced his marksmanship at Police Academy (Which would have been more interesting if Dixon had ever actually SHOWN us any of it, but let's not go into that)

We saw him train Jason here

We've seen that he trained Tim in how to use an unloaded gun as an impromptu throwing weapon.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

tsuki_the_geek
2009-04-07 02:27 am UTC (link)

Oh I know that they're trained, but have any of the Robins besides Jason used guns "in the field" so to speak?

(Speaking of Bruce's phobic reaction versus actual skill-- I need to find that awesome/implausible comic where Batman is w/ Deathstroke has to fire a gun from a massive distance perfectly in order to stop someone w/out killing them. Batman + gun issues = win)

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

icon_uk
2009-04-07 05:40 am UTC (link)

Actally, no. I can't think of any other Robin who has used guns offhand.

And the "Batman dealing with "heroes" who use guns" moment I like best is in the JLAvengers when the JLA are on Marvel Earth, getting the lie of the land, and Batman has been warning absolutely everybody to NOT interfere with anything that's going on as it might cause damage to the continuum.

He's in the grimmer areas of New York himself when we hear him going offline for a few minutes and when we cut back, an unconscious Punisher is tied up and hanging from a lamppost in typical Bat-style. Of course my real issue was not so much with Batman doing that (I all but cheered) but why more MU heroes DON'T!

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	longhairedlady 2009-04-07 04:41 am UTC (link)
	It really feels like kicking a kid when he's down the way those modern, post death, comics paint him as totally criminal and attitudey, whereas when you see the original, pre-death, he was just bereaved and a little angry. Come on, the guy hasn't suffered enough with all those fans voting to kill him? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	icon_uk 2009-04-07 05:27 am UTC (link)
	The problem with Jason 2.0 wasn't so much that he was "bereaved and a little angry", but that he quickly got to the point that he was never anything BUT angry underneath everything. Seriously, go through some of those old issues and I swear you can't find an image where he ISN'T frowning, and that got old really, really quickly. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	tsuki_the_geek 2009-04-08 12:03 am UTC (link)
	As it got close to DitF, Jason DID get more bratty and near-criminal (not as bad as later versions but close). But I agree overall-- poor 900-death Jason (Reply to this) (Parent)

	parsimonia 2009-04-07 10:22 am UTC (link)
	Poor Jason. I do feel sorry for him, even if he is an angry little snot who grew up into an angry gun-toting snot. I'd love it if they could flesh him out as a little more, though. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	lipsofpoison 2009-04-07 01:54 pm UTC (link)
	Iawtc and srsly love your icon. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	Oh, I meant to say... parsimonia 2009-04-07 10:54 am UTC (link)
	"Shorts riding up?" It's very wrong that it looks like Dick is staring at Jason's crotch in that panel. (Reply to this)

	sistermagpie 2009-04-07 01:48 pm UTC (link)
	Why did this kid have to be so aggressively annoying again? He's most annoying in the most recent version, as if the writers just get less subtle as time goes on. Oh, and nice, Bruce, the way you're so free sharing Dick's history with a stranger. Makes me so happy that Tim is one day going to let him have it for that sort of thing. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	lipsofpoison 2009-04-07 01:55 pm UTC (link)
	Panuniversally, this is like the third time he's done that to someone. I want to kick him for it. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	lipsofpoison 2009-04-07 01:54 pm UTC (link)
	Oh Jason. You are such a teenage boy. You just are not comfortable dealing with things, overconfident and hate relying on anyone but yourself. Looking back at these, I can completely see BftC!Jason in them and it makes me so happy. (Reply to this)

janegray
2009-04-07 03:37 pm UTC (link)

I really dislike the "Nightwing: Year One" version of Jason's origin. I much prefer his original meeting with Nightwing, the one in Batman #416. Jason and Dick argued for a couple of pages, then Jay went all "who is this Nightwing guy again? Wait, ZOMG, HE WAS THE ORIGINAL ROBIN! HE IS BACK AND BRUCE WILL FIRE ME! DDD: ;_; ", and when they next met Jay and Dick got along well and were even friendly with each other.

But after Jason died, all the "flashback" stories portrayed him as angrier than he actually was, and apparently unable to get along with Dick.

...Maybe I should post those pages?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	toasty_fresh 2009-04-07 06:46 pm UTC (link)
	Yes, definitely! I much prefer that to this, as well . . . (Reply to this) (Parent)

	tsuki_the_geek 2009-04-08 12:06 am UTC (link)
	You know, I used to have that issue but got rid of it in the Great Move of 2003. Mostly because it was never my favorite-- honestly I prefer the N:YO version, but that's just me! (Reply to this) (Parent)

jlroberson
2009-04-07 08:35 pm UTC (link)

I find it interesting that the only change the Crisis really caused with Batman was to turn Todd from cipher to creep. Other than that, he seems to have stayed outside it, and his entire history up to and including Dick remained more or less intact and precedes the Crisis. (Year One only filled in detail, and does anyone remember or care about Year Two?) I mean, compare what they did with Superman--Batman was mostly untouched, except to ruin bits and pieces here and there. Classic case of "If it ain't broke."

And Mike Barr had actually developed Jason well, so what was the point of that?

(Reply to this)

	ar_feiniel_ 2009-04-07 08:56 pm UTC (link)
	I'm going to assume that Bruce intended for Jason to use that gun to take some pot shots and hold the attackers back, and Jason decided to mow them all down. Really enjoying these posts BTW. (Reply to this)

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