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cyberghostface (cyberghostface) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-03-31 18:49:00

Entry tags:

char: batman/bruce wayne, char: spider-man/peter parker, creator: alex ross, creator: david michelinie, creator: erik larsen, creator: paul dini, in-joke: context is for the weak, in-joke: herodickery, publisher: dc comics, publisher: marvel comics

Batman and Spider-Man on dealing with urban crime
Two differing scenes in which Batman and Spider-Man deal with young urban criminals. As you know, both Batman and Spider-Man have incredibly different worldviews, so it should come to no surprise that their encounters will have different results...

Batman's scene is from Batman: War on Crime, which was written by Paul Dini and illustrated by Alex Ross...

(Prior to this scene, Batman had intercepted a robbery in which Marcus's parents were killed, which is how he knew about them.)

Spider-Man, on the other hand, takes a different approach when dealing with young criminals. The following scene comes from Amazing Spider-Man #349. It was written by David Michelinie and illustrated by Erik Larsen.

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	darklorelei 2009-03-31 06:24 pm UTC (link)
	Blergh to photorealism. Straight to the Uncanny Valley. Brrr. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	parsimonia 2009-03-31 06:41 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, I'm not fond of it, either. I mean, it can look nice, but in a comic, it either makes the word bubbles look goofy and pasted-on, or you have to have the text right on the image, like here. I find it kind of disruptive. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	inaworldofsong 2009-03-31 06:44 pm UTC (link)
	That was my problem with Serious House on a Serious Earth. I ended up reading the script in the back of TPB. I liked the script better than the finished product. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	jasper_stars 2009-03-31 07:38 pm UTC (link)
	Huh, I guess see your point. Though I do LOVE Alex Ross' work. Absolutely amazing. But in a comic... the word bubbles would completely ruin it. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	icon_uk 2009-03-31 06:32 pm UTC (link)
	Alas for your contrast, the Spider-Man picture is coming up as in "moved or deleted" (Reply to this) (Thread)

	cyberghostface 2009-03-31 06:36 pm UTC (link)
	Should be working now. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	toasty_fresh 2009-03-31 06:42 pm UTC (link)
	Aww at the Batman story, but DNW at the art. Realistic Batman just looks ridiculous to me. (Reply to this)

	taggerung301 2009-03-31 06:44 pm UTC (link)
	I like the art used here for batman . . . realism is kind of nice every once in a while (Reply to this) (Thread)

	darklorelei 2009-03-31 07:24 pm UTC (link)
	See, I don't mind realism per se, but this is just too far for me. It pings my Uncanny Valley squick. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	taggerung301 2009-03-31 08:53 pm UTC (link)
	The main reason I really like this here is because batman looks extremely human - he's not some brooding cartoon man in a mask, you can see how human he is - he doesn't have unnatural muscle, and it's obvious he's just a man in a costume I think that really works well with the message they've got going here (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	darklorelei 2009-03-31 10:08 pm UTC (link)
	I'll freely admit that it's a one of my myriad personality quirks. I think the backgrounds are absolutely gorgeous, but the second I see a person I get really creeped out. I don't really mind his covers, but there's just something about it that bothers me in dynamic art. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	retro_nouveau 2009-03-31 07:06 pm UTC (link)
	Dini <3! Ross <3! I don't think we're being fair to Pete. If the situation was reversed, I think Bruce would have punched knife boy into next week. (Reply to this) (Thread)

psychop_rex
2009-04-01 01:46 am UTC (link)

Also, there is a good deal of difference between a scared and grief-stricken young boy just starting on the path of crime and an active teenage delinquent who carries a bowie knife and snatches purses from fat women. The one hardly knows what he's doing, the second knows all too well. He deserved the webbing.
Incidentally, is there any possibility of someone posting some scans from the Batman/Spider-Man crossover - the initial one, the one with Carnage and the Joker? That was pretty good stuff, and showed pretty well how similar the two heroes are in certain respects. (And how different in others.)

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	liliaeth 2009-04-01 04:11 am UTC (link)
	I could also point out several stories prior to BND, where Spidey is very understanding and listening to young delinquents, rather than webbing them up. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	starwolf_oakley 2009-04-01 10:59 am UTC (link)
	Even after BND, with the two-part Hammerhead story. (Reply to this) (Parent)

psychop_rex
2009-04-01 03:44 pm UTC (link)

Well, sure, but there's a difference - I don't know what those other delinquents were like, but this guy is obviously faking it. In narrative terms, nobody trots out the 'I got a sick mother' story unless they're trying to play on someone's sympathy - were it investigated, one would find out that the story holds about as much water as a leaky bucket. Clearly, young or not, this guy is a nasty piece of work who fancies himself a slick operator - I think the webs were justified.

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	liliaeth 2009-04-01 05:09 pm UTC (link)
	Oh I totally agree with you. Was just saying that Spidey does have a thoughtful side, he's just not enough of an idiot (prior to BND that is) , to take any sobstory at face value. (well unless the thief looks like uncle Ben or Felicia Hardyeg) (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	psychop_rex 2009-04-01 05:22 pm UTC (link)
	Is there something which he did during BND which labeled him as a chump? I haven't read it. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	liliaeth 2009-04-01 05:52 pm UTC (link)
	Pretty much every issue. They've turned him into an incompetent, sleazy, moronic and utterly worthless loser who fails at pretty much everything. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	cyberghostface 2009-04-01 10:39 am UTC (link)
	Well I was being snarky...that being said, if I was Spidey, I wouldn't have let him carry on with the robbery but I would have at least verified as to whether or not he had a sick mother to begin with and maybe try change his ways. Not the whole "I got a sick mother!" "Sucks to be you! Thwip!" routine. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

psychop_rex
2009-04-01 03:53 pm UTC (link)

Well, but let's be realistic here - Spidey is a nice guy, sure, but he's also a busy one. At a certain point, he's got to make some sort of a judgement call as to whether or not a budding criminal needs help, or just needs stopping. He's got bad guys to fight, after all - and after all the thousands of malefactors he's stopped during his career, he probably has a pretty good idea which crooks can be reasoned with and which crooks are just crooks.

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	ashtoreth 2009-03-31 08:22 pm UTC (link)
	All I can think about is a scared straight speech BND Spidey delivered. (Reply to this)

	bluejaybirdie 2009-03-31 08:54 pm UTC (link)
	This is one of the things I love about Batman: that he's fundamentally good with kids. He can't form a normal adult relationship to save his life, but he gets kids. And empathizes with them much, much better. (Reply to this) (Thread)

psychop_rex
2009-04-01 02:12 am UTC (link)

Indeed - while this has never been directly confirmed that I can think of, one of my pet theories about Batman is that part of him never really did grow up. He's been stunted emotionally ever since that night in the alley - a good part of his emotional makeup is still that of an eight-year old. He covers it up behind a mask of icy professionalism and a big-scary-man alter ego, but every now and then the mask slips, and we see the little boy underneath, the emotions still as raw and unhealed. It explains a hell of a lot about the character, both good and bad - for the good, it explains why, as you say, he's so good with kids, and how he has managed to successfully train three different generations of young sidekicks. (Note also how strained his relationships with said sidekicks have gotten as they grow older - they have progressed beyond him; they have grown in a way he never can. He doesn't understand them anymore.) For the bad, it explains why, especially in recent years, he can be so, well, childish at times. His attitude towards his fellow heroes - especially those in Gotham, such as the Spoiler - frequently displays a sort of pouting unprofessionalism which seems incongruous until you translate it into the language of the playground. ('No, no, NO! You're not playing by the rules! This is MY game, and I make the rules! I'm not playing with you any more!')
So yeah, it's just me playing armchair psychologist, but it makes sense, wouldn't you say? I'm not the only person to think so, either - Joe R. Lansdale, in his short story 'The Joker's Trick-or-Treat', has Batman's favorite snack being a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, which does not exactly thrill Alfred, as you may imagine. (He also makes reference to how Bruce used to run around the house in a homemade Zorro costume as a kid.)

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	foxhack 2009-03-31 08:55 pm UTC (link)
	And the following day the Daily Bugle had this as a headline: Spidey hates Australia! Declares war on Paul Hogan! (Reply to this) (Thread)

	taggerung301 2009-03-31 08:56 pm UTC (link)
	nice (Reply to this) (Parent)

	taggerung301 2009-03-31 08:55 pm UTC (link)
	lol, taking a second look at the spiderman scans, Spidey's butt is now the focal point of the page for me sigh . . . what have you done to me scans daily? (Reply to this)

	Just an excuse to use this icon. ex_octopusso248 2009-03-31 10:27 pm UTC (link)
	The realistic Batman looks like it was based off Keaton IMO. (Reply to this)

	janegray 2009-04-01 07:31 am UTC (link)
	Coincidentally, just today I received my copy of Batman: War On Crime (and Wonder Woman: Spirit Of Truth). What were the chances? XD For the record, I love the art. I don't even like photorealistic art in general, but for some reason I utterly adore the one in these comics :D (Reply to this)

mysteryfan
2009-04-01 01:16 pm UTC (link)

Wow! Post-crisis Batman like this? Mmmmm. Thanks for posting!

That's really, really something amazing, the first story. (About the second, is Spidey's butt always so visibly sculpted?).

Back to the first: I will seek this out. What year is this?

I don't like photorealism in some cases, but in this case, I love it. I like the dreamier panels better than the Batman closeups, because, you know. Specific closeups are a tricky thing, in my opinion, because everybody has a different take on what the character looks like. Some art styles make it easier to superimpose one's own take (imo) and certain styles make it harder.

Still, love. Think it works perfectly for this. Wish Batman's teeth weren't so visible in that one panel -- not that there's anything wrong with them, just--that's not my favorite panel, and I wonder if this is the same model he uses for Superman.

Anyway, gorgeous. Story and art. I found it emotionally compelling and... yeah. Like. A lot.

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