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bluefall ([info]bluefall) wrote in [info]scans_daily,
@ 2009-03-24 23:44:00

Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:char: wonder woman/diana of themyscira, creator: bryan hitch, creator: mark waid, group: justice league of america, series: when wondy was awesome, series: world of wondy

When Wondy was Awesome, part 12 (Against the Id)
Well, we've seen a lot of Diana beating up her friends with our last couple arcs, so let's go back to JLA proper for a bit and watch her save all her friends instead. We're into February of 2001 here (continuity-wise, contemporary with or perhaps a little after Hiketeia, though few years shy of that story by publish date), during the Waid run of JLA v3, and the glory years of the Big Seven League.

Now, despite being one of the strongest JLA writers I've read, Waid has done Diana an injustice or two in his day. (And he wrote "Fairy Tales," which I am not inclined to ever forgive him for). But by the time we get to this point in the JLA, Waid was well past his Kingdom Come foibles and hitting some very good notes with her character - such as during the "Id" arc that I bring today. In which there actually isn't much Diana, but when she is, it's damn well worth noting.




Place and time: The Batcave, soon after the events of "Babel." Despite the fact that the JLA functioned just fine for years without Batman's help, several of the remaining Leaguers apparently feel he's essential to the formula (hooray authorial fiat); at any rate, there's some idiocy happening where they've all fractioned into two groups, "yea" voters and "nay" voters, and everyone's being suspicious and stupid and teamwork has fallen apart (and frankly the idea that Diana and J'onn would ever come into conflict over something Batman did is an idiocy I can't quite wrap my brain around, but it's what we're given, so we'll roll with it). So Supes has come to hang out in the 'Cave and beg Batman to fix it.



Ignoring the silly histrionics here, pay careful attention to Clark's words in the second panel. (And how cute is it that Bats thinks he deserves an apology?)

Anyway, Clark spins this story about how the League (sans him, he was elsewhere) went to fight Dr. Destiny, and J'onn split them into teams to try to reconcile their differences and everyone bickered yadda yadda this is all an unimportant out-of-character-for-everyone subplot. Eventually they find Destiny and realize that he's swapped his dream-self for his real-self somehow, and the only way to defeat him is to take the fight to him on the astral plane.





Stuff like this is always cool (allowing for the crappy Top Cow-esque art) for what it says about a character's self-image. This is how they all see themselves in battle; J'onn as a full-on Martian, Wally as a blur, Kyle as the whole Lantern Corps with the world's best set of brass knuckles. And Diana, who sees herself as exactly as she is, except fifteen feet tall. That strikes me as reasonably accurate and entirely appropriate.



So they kick Destiny's butt (Supes calls Diana's plan an "unintentional masterstroke," which is to laugh - like Bats is the only guy on the team with any tactical comprehension whatsoever? I mean I get that she probably didn't anticipate the bonus effect of the dream-world on their teamwork, but still. It's not like she was just chucking darts blindfolded, here).

But that doesn't really make things better.



Insert comment about Supes who wasn't there and Bats who isn't even a member talking about what's wrong with the League and how they're going to deal with it here. Patronizing? Patriarchal? Who, the World's Finest? The devil you say.

Regardless, Bruce catches Clark's drift and calls the whole League into the Batcave, where they look for Bats and discover Bruce.



And also Clark.



Interesting that they're both looking at Diana when Bruce says "That's what you wanted, correct?" (And for that matter, so is Arthur.) I mean, I get that this is a big deal for the boys, but Diana already knew both their IDs and obviously didn't have a problem with them keeping them from the others. That wasn't her complaint with his behavior at all, and I don't see why this should placate her or suddenly renew her trust in him. On the other hand, it does make perfect sense for them to appeal to her as the team's default leader here - if she buys in on this gesture, the rest will follow - so while it's odd from her side, it does work from theirs.

Then everyone else hops on the meme.



Look, Diana's friendship with J'onn in evidence! It's always so subtle, but it's there, people, and strong. I maintain they got badly cheated in FC: Requiem. (Also neat: that Diana knows everybody's secrets. She doesn't have Clark's x-ray vision or Bruce's detective skills, but she doesn't need them; people tell her the truth.)

Then Batman shows up.



Things get wierd fast after that.



Through use of the lasso and some fancy telepathy tricks, the League ascertains that everybody is legit. Mysteriously, the whole JLA has been split into two; their secret IDs and hero IDs are now separate people. Further, Clark Kent and John Jones are human; Eel O'Brian can't morph; Wally West has no speed.

It's all very strange, but for the time being, they decide to send all the alter egos back home to their normal lives while the heroes keep heroing and try to figure out what's wrong.

Meanwhile, similarly weird things are happening all over the world.



The League gets called in to respond to some weird happenings in Washington.



I am all about Supes getting randomly teleported to Saturn, but it's kind of annoying when you consider the science of it. He's not supposed to be faster than Wally, and Wally's not supposed to be faster than light (or at least not without becoming part of the Speed Force), and in that case it should take Supes at least an hour and change to get back to Earth. But he shows up again right away, which means he's flying superluminal, which means he's faster than Wally. Considering that's all Wally has while Clark also gets to be strong enough to pull the moon out of orbit and sturdy enough to fly through the sun, that doesn't really seem just.

Anyway, they bring down the homeless dude.





Diana, it should be noted, has been somewhat skeptical of the heroes' behavior since this started. I can't say I blame her, since here they are going all Justice Lords on her and it hasn't even been two days since the split.

Things get worse pretty quickly, too. Lantern seems to forget how to use his ring as anything but a literal weapon, while Kyle flips out and obsessively draws, everywhere, on every flat surface he can find (although it does make his room look really cool). Plas becomes more and more useless comic relief, while Eel is fighting criminal impulses. Bruce is steadily becoming an angry psycho. And John Jones gets in a car crash.



John begs Arthur to let him stay John, stay separate, when the League finds a way to fix everything. Clark, too, seems satisfied with his new lot.



Good of her to check on her friend Clark. Shame she didn't stop by Kyle's place, although I give her some leeway here. This may be her first stop, and she can't exactly sonic boom into Kyle's neighborhood in full uniform without raising suspicion.

(Diana's "good hands" also seems a little optimistic, considering, but in her defense, she wasn't there for the green goo fight where her team went *really* off the rails).

Huh. Time for an explanation for all this, doncha think? Okay then. Introducing: the freaky 6-D bug guys.



See the little kid on the big cube face in the second panel? He's this kid:



This is the signal alert that Diana was recieving. We're looking at Metamorpho's son Joey, here - the arguing family he speaks of are his mother Sapphire and his grandfather Simon Stagg who, to be quite frank, could not stop arguing about Metamorpho if the sky fell, regardless of what Rex himself is or is not doing. However, in this instance, they are ostensibly arguing because, at this point in continuity, Metamorpho is dead. (Sort of.)



Hey, the bug guys are here! And know what the hell is going on! To save you the headache of trying to parse their speech bubbles, I will summarize the next couple pages of exposition for you. It seems that they created what they call "Id," a runaway "sentient energy" from the sixth dimension that, when brought to our dimension, has the ability to grant desires and wishes. So when Joey wished for his dad back, freaky Metamorpho showed up. Operative word "back," not "alive." The bugs then tell the League to give them a couple minutes to get into the kid's head and fix things.

I bet you can all guess what happened to the League now. Nice one, Supes.

The League holds off Metamorpho for a couple pages, and the bugs manage to access the part of Id that's lingering in Joey's brain and reverse the wish.



Y'know, it'd be a good moment no matter who said it, but coming from Diana, who doesn't lie, that line becomes about a hundred times more powerful.

Anyway, the 6-D bugs explain that they're trying to recapture the Id and recruit the JLA to help them.

Also, Supes, impressively, manages to strike upon a design that looks even dippier than his normal suit.



Kal, honey. Of all the kryptonian motifs you could have incorporated, you had to pick the ruffles? Really, big guy? Really?

Elsewhere, John Jones is playing with matches, and Eel O'Brian comes to talk to him in one of the best Plas scenes on record.





That had nothing to do with Diana, but it was too good not to post regardless. The point is basically that Eel is hardcore, and knows this needs fixing, and so he starts rounding up all the other alter egos and strongarming them into playing along. He starts with Bruce, who just flipped out and beat some thugs bloody before Eel pistol-whipped him.



I don't know how much I buy this read on Bats, but I suppose it's an interesting concept.

So Eel gets the whole gang together, and they charge off to the scene of another wish-gone-bad, where the League and the 6-D bug dudes are trying to get Id under control (with fair success).





Oh NOES, a 6-D doublecross!

Fortunately the alter egos show up right about then. Eel gets the bright idea to grab the little thinking band the bugs were using to fix people's heads before and put it on Supes, since it was his wish in the first place.





The half-merged identities go to war with each other, unable to accomplish anything. Arthur talks J'onn and John into getting over it, though, for the good of everyone, and they wade into the lasso-bound Id in an attempt to reason with it (remember, it's sentient). The bugs get pissed by this and zap J'onn/John, then split Arthur.





Is it just me who finds it equally badass and hilarious the way Diana just saved Arthur?



What is Diana's dichotomy? Where is the split, the contradiction in her nature?

(Don't worry if you can't read the bugs' word-bubbles here, they really aren't important.)


She's a mortal, a simple woman made of dust and returned to dust like any other. And she's Truth, so elemental that she was once its goddess.





Boo-ya.

Then J'onn sets up a mindlink and they beat the bad guys.



So this whole story sort of exemplifies, for me, why Diana's such a good fit for the Justice League. Yes, she's one of the most powerful heroes on the planet, both as a matter of raw scale and in terms of tactics and battle prowess, but it's more than that, and maybe not even primarily that. It's that she's fundamentally a team player, and that she makes the team a better team by being there. When they fight with each other, she calms them; when they're acting weird, she picks up on it first; when they're incapable of acting as a unit, of agreeing even with themselves, she puts them back on the right track. She makes it easier for the rest of them to do what they have to, and she pulls her own weight as an individual. Of the others, only J'onn is as aware of and as beneficial to the cohesion of the group. (Which is no small part of why I think it's incredibly stupid to have the two of them, of all people, who've respected and trusted each other since years before Bats came into the picture and who are the most conscious of unity, the least judgemental*, the least upset, and the least prone to projection, to be at odds over Bats leaving, but again, whatever.)

* Usually. Not counting J'onn's periodic "humans suck, you're all hateful bastards and I don't know why I even bother with the lot of you assholes" cycles.

It's worth noting that this is not the first time Wondy's clay/spirit nature, combined with fundamental awesomeness, saves the entire JLA; and in fact of the two stories I can think off offhand (the other being Primeval), this one isn't even my favorite. She's written better in Primeval, too, without the burden of the "Babel" stuff hanging over the League. But as a Wondy spotlight, "Id" gives her more throughout - and since part of my goal with this series is to show as many different facets of Diana's character as possible, I couldn't leave out the Metamorpho lie. That always sticks with me as one of Diana's defining moments - it hits on her compassion, her decency, her honesty, and the burden she's willing to shoulder all in two tiny syllables. It even gives me chills sometimes.

All scans from JLA v3, #50-54, collected in "JLA: Divided we Fall."


Next time: Diana faces down Darkseid in an OW@W interlude, with pretty, pretty Jimenez art.


(Post a new comment)


[info]magus_69
2009-03-25 12:32 am UTC (link)
Look, Diana's friendship with J'onn in evidence! It's always so subtle, but it's there, people, and strong.

I never thought about it that way, but you're absolutely right. Only Kyle and Eel wouldn't have known about John Jones, so in essence he gave up nothing. Diana let him keep the rest of his secrets because she knows how important they are to him. Given how important truth is to her, and given that Bruce and Clark* finally let their guard down, it's telling that she let J'onn keep his up.

*-- Moreso Clark; Wally should have known Bruce but could plausibly not have known Clark.

I maintain they got badly cheated in FC: Requiem.

Yes they did. J'onn has usually gotten along best with those Leaguers who are also aliens in some fashion. Diana certainly qualifies; in many ways she's more of an alien that Clark ever could be.

Is it just me who finds it equally badass and hilarious the way Diana just saved Arthur?

Indeed. Total shout-out to the water weakness. Also, I will say this for the bathing suit costume: in the hands of a competent artist, it shows off Diana's muscles. Very few artists actually bother drawing women with actual muscle.

There: the one redeeming quality of the bathing suit.

She makes it easier for the rest of them to do what they have to, and she pulls her own weight as an individual.

In conclusion, Warlord. Multiclassed with Paladin when all is going well, but Warlord notwithstanding.

I'm happy that the Eel/John scene was kept. I think that it was the best moment in the arc, and one of the best in Waid's run period.

Finally: congratulations on the voice acting debut!

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]bluefall
2009-03-25 01:01 am UTC (link)
J'onn has usually gotten along best with those Leaguers who are also aliens in some fashion.

Very true and a strong point of commonality between them. But they're also very fundamentally compatible even in the non-far-away-from-home ways; they're both very thoughtful, self-contained people who see and consider much more than they ever say, they both take after their mothers (second coolest thing Ostrander ever did), they're both very passionate about nature and the living world as a virtue unto itself. And they share the gift and burden of knowing, intimately, mankind's true nature, he through telepathy and she through the lasso; that level of empathy is pretty rare, and to have someone who gets it would be a relief to both of them.

In conclusion, Warlord.

You know, if you keep saying that, I'm going to have to actually familiarize myself with 4e.

Finally: congratulations on the voice acting debut!

rrgh don't say that it never happened i'm not here. >.>

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]unknownscribler
2009-03-25 12:38 am UTC (link)
The comment about the lasso is interesting in the context of what Gail's been intimating over in Diana's book.

Insert comment about Supes who wasn't there and Bats who isn't even a member talking about what's wrong with the League and how they're going to deal with it here. Patronizing? Patriarchal? Who, the World's Finest? The devil you say.

Admittedly, given that it's in large part Bruce's fault, Clark discussing how he's going to make things better is appropriate. How did the team split, anyhow? Given Wally's bitching about being yanked by a lasso I'm guessing he was on the anti-Bruce side

So they kick Destiny's butt (Supes calls Diana's plan an "unintentional masterstroke," which is to laugh - like Bats is the only guy on the team with any tactical comprehension whatsoever? I mean I get that she probably didn't anticipate the bonus effect of the dream-world on their teamwork, but still. It's not like she was just chucking darts blindfolded, here).

The problem is, as we've discussed before, that Batman has to be the irreplacable tactical genius for him to justify his presence in the League, operating on a plane beyond even the champion of Athena.

Og course, had it been me I would have simply had Diana lasso the dream catcher to expose its falsehood, but I guess we wouldn't have gotten the story.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]bluefall
2009-03-25 12:48 am UTC (link)
Well, every writer sees the lasso differently. The party line since Byrne has pretty much been "it's just a focus for her inherent Truthiness," but if Gail wants to mess with that there's certainly no iron-clad "Bruce doesn't kill" level of canon to stop her.

How did the team split, anyhow?

Last time around I posted the Babel arc before League of One, which I probably should have done this time too, just for context. Oh well. Basically Bruce had Contingency Plans to take out all the other Leaguers, which he didn't bother to tell them about; Ra's got his hands on said plans and used them against the League. In the aftermath, everyone was seriously pissed off at Bruce and they voted him off the satellite, four to three. J'onn, Wally, and Kyle voted for him to stay; Diana, Arthur, Plas and Clark wanted him gone. The League then split along those lines and were pissy at each other until he came back.

I would have simply had Diana lasso the dream catcher to expose its falsehood

Well, the dreamcatcher's not exactly a falsehood. One's astral self is, on the astral plane, as legit an entity as one's normal self in the real world.

The problem is, as we've discussed before, that Batman has to be the irreplacable tactical genius for him to justify his presence in the League, operating on a plane beyond even the champion of Athena.

See, most of the time that works, but he wasn't even there for that one. Surely there's no need to downplay her talents when doing so doesn't even do anything to boost up anyone else.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]perletwo, 2009-03-25 01:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kamino_neko, 2009-03-25 02:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]perletwo, 2009-03-25 02:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kamino_neko, 2009-03-25 02:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]enerprime, 2009-03-25 08:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kamino_neko, 2009-03-25 07:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]perletwo, 2009-03-25 11:36 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bluefall, 2009-03-25 11:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]perletwo, 2009-03-25 11:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kamino_neko, 2009-03-25 06:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]perletwo, 2009-03-25 07:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jlbarnett, 2009-03-25 04:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]arbre_rieur, 2009-03-25 02:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]magus_69, 2009-03-25 05:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]warpedhand, 2009-03-25 08:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]perletwo, 2009-03-25 11:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]icon_uk, 2009-03-25 05:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bariman1987, 2009-03-25 11:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]icon_uk, 2009-03-25 11:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]oddpuppets, 2009-03-25 04:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kamino_neko, 2009-03-25 09:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aaron_bourque, 2009-03-25 03:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]unknownscribler, 2009-03-25 01:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bluefall, 2009-03-25 11:17 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kalanyr2.livejournal.com, 2009-03-26 01:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]icon_uk, 2009-03-25 05:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bluefall, 2009-03-25 11:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]icon_uk, 2009-03-25 11:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bluefall, 2009-03-25 11:55 am UTC

[info]magus_69
2009-03-25 12:48 am UTC (link)
How did the team split, anyhow? Given Wally's bitching about being yanked by a lasso I'm guessing he was on the anti-Bruce side

It was the fallout to Tower of Babel. The League discussed the matter of Batman's continued membership. J'onn, Wally, and Kyle were on the side of keeping him on the team. Diana, Eel, and Arthur wanted him gone. We don't know which way Clark voted because when they went to talk to him they found that he had gone.

Basically, it was like Shayera's departure in JL, only she had the decency to formally make her departure to their faces.

Of course, had it been me I would have simply had Diana lasso the dream catcher to expose its falsehood, but I guess we wouldn't have gotten the story.

I don't think that would have worked. The rest of the story showed that the dreamcatcher altered reality; its effects may have been based out of dreams, but that didn't make them any less true in that specific context. The dreamcatcher's true nature would have been revealed, but they already knew what it was.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]bluefall, 2009-03-25 01:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]starwolf_oakley, 2009-03-25 12:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bluefall, 2009-03-25 01:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]starwolf_oakley, 2009-03-25 12:58 pm UTC

[info]noahbrand
2009-03-25 01:08 am UTC (link)
This was such an uneven storyline. (Of course, I'm the guy who thought "Tower of Babel" was the worst thing Waid's ever written, Impact Comics included.) Great stuff and embarrassing stuff right next to each other, though the art's uniformly lovely.

I'm not sure I quite agree with your premise that Diana's what holds the JLA together. In my opinion, that part is played by J'onn. Every incarnation of the League only starts working when J'onn pitches in. He also, unlike Diana, usually doesn't have his own title, so he has no CHOICE but to be a team player. :)

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]bluefall
2009-03-25 11:29 am UTC (link)
I don't think she's what holds the League together, I think she can hold a League together. It's a part either of them can play, which is why both of them had a League in the Era of A Thousand Justice Leagues (which was entirely hilarious, because they got along so well and totally met each other as equals whenever there was a cross-League bash, while Atom usually flipped out and jostled for Alpha). It's also a role that isn't really needed much with the Big Seven, which I think causes it to be overlooked a lot as a primary strength in both their cases.

Man, now you've gone and made me miss Ostrander on Manhunter.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]bariman1987, 2009-03-25 11:43 am UTC

[info]gwalla.livejournal.com
2009-03-25 02:16 am UTC (link)
While Diana's essential nature does save the day at the end, I think this storyline is mainly notable as Plastic Man's crowning moment of awesome (in the modern era). The scenes where Eel is trying to convince John Jones that everything is going horribly wrong were dynamite.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]kamino_neko
2009-03-25 02:27 am UTC (link)
It's actually the story that made me actually LIKE Plas.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]perletwo, 2009-03-25 11:46 am UTC

[info]cmdr_zoom
2009-03-25 04:50 am UTC (link)
Word.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]jlroberson
2009-03-25 02:18 am UTC (link)
Beautiful art. (and I like the "cube" balloons) But, as I said last time some of this was posted, the problem I have with Waid's writing isn't lack of intelligence, certainly, but rather the opposite: his approach is so cerebral that it comes off more a thesis on the characters than a story. He explains what the characters are but it never seems to gel into anything immersive. And I'm not sure distancing is Waid's purpose here.

It also plays to one of JLA's worst faults, historically: a plot that structured by going down the character list.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]gwalla.livejournal.com
2009-03-25 03:33 pm UTC (link)
Simultaneously cerebral and shallow.

He gives good action scene, though.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]jlroberson, 2009-03-25 10:01 pm UTC

[info]arbre_rieur
2009-03-25 02:26 am UTC (link)
"Place and time: The Batcave, soon after the events of "Babel." Despite the fact that the JLA functioned just fine for years without Batman's help, several of the remaining Leaguers apparently feel he's essential to the formula"

I'd say they aren't so much arguing he was essential as arguing he's very, very useful, which I'd say is a fair point. I'd say the absence of any member would, or perhaps should, make the missions a lot tougher for the rest.

(Reply to this)


[info]cmdr_zoom
2009-03-25 04:54 am UTC (link)
Love Clark's bashful smile on the "reveal" page.

Operative word "back", not "alive".

Classic Monkey's Paw.

(Reply to this)


[info]bariman1987
2009-03-25 07:15 am UTC (link)
The secret ID reveal is one of my favorite scenes ever. And Kyle's reaction is what I always think of when people say the glasses aren't a good disguise: "He doesn't even wear a mask!" No one thinks Superman even has a secret ID, so they don't look for one. Someone might notice a resemblence between Clark and Superman, but a lot of people look like celebrities.

I love Diana's scene with human!Clark, and Eel's scene with John. Very excellently written.

Diana simply dousing Arthur with water is both funny and awesome. "Dude, seriously, it's a major city, there's water freakin' everywhere." And then becoming Truth Itself to save everyone? Very awesome.

(Reply to this)


[info]longhairedlady
2009-03-25 07:42 am UTC (link)
Kick ass. I love Wondy's defeat of the 6D things, and the way all the heroes react to giving away their secret identities (Clark is so cute, and it's awesome how proud Kyle looks to reveal himself!)

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]bluefall
2009-03-25 11:31 am UTC (link)
I love how polite the other Leaguers were to not be like "uh, who?" when Kyle drops his name.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]http://users.livejournal.com/_dante_sparda_/
2009-03-25 08:42 am UTC (link)
AMAGAD BASHFUL CLARK SMILE SO KYOOOOOT *heart bubbles*

Also, I love love love you dearly for posting all this Wondy goodness. It's so informative on so many levels and your commentary has me in stitches most of the time. I think I shall weep when you run out of material.

(Reply to this)


[info]statham1986
2009-03-25 09:00 am UTC (link)
Regarding your issues with Kingdom Come (And though it's been a while since I read it, I do think that out of the three of them, Diana's the least well-represented by the book. To me, she's little more than Clark's floozy in that story, turning stupidly vicious at the story's end and completely negating the idea she represents), might that not be more an issue with Alex Ross, rather than Waid? I was under the impression that Ross had much of the story set in stone and it was just up to Waid to provide some half-decent dialogue, which Ross is truly awful at.

That, to me, explains more why Diana gets a decent showing here than she did in Kingdom Come, purely because Ross doesn't respect the character as much as Bruce or Clark.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]bluefall
2009-03-25 11:43 am UTC (link)
Well, Waid has made public statements to the effect of regretting what he did with Diana in KC; if he feels he could have done better by her, that implies a degree of influence and therefore culpability in the way she turned out. And he had a few rocky moments with her in JLA as well (Fairy Tales, again), that seemed to echo some of the problems from KC (namely, something that looked like her story and affected her more than anyone but in the end was actually about someone else). I will readily agree that Ross probably carries the lion's share of the blame, though; if it were up to me, he'd never touch her, while I'd cheerfully, at this point, give Waid a one-shot or mini or Elseworlds or a Superman/Wonder Woman weekly or what-have-you to play with her as he wished.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]jarodrussell
2009-03-25 10:02 am UTC (link)
Resolution and authorial intent aside, this story pretty much sums up my growing tiredness with super-heroes, and goes on to explain why books like Guardians of the Galaxy, Doktor Sleepless, and to some extent Blue Beetle appeal to me; to mangle a phrase: secret identities are dead, get over it. Perhaps in the past, before Internet and phonecams and Google, the idea of the warring duality of a secret identity would have been fun and meaningful, but in today's world...it's kind of dumb. Who doesn't live a certain level of duality these days, with an online persona and a real life one?

Not really awake enough to make my point...and I offer my apologies to [info]bluefall for hijacking/subverting her post...but these pages are the best example I've seen in a while that show just how antiquated and ill-fit the JLA are for being role models in today's world where super-powers are rapidly becoming a reality.

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(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2009-03-25 03:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jarodrussell, 2009-03-25 04:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2009-03-25 04:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jarodrussell, 2009-03-25 04:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jlbarnett, 2009-03-25 04:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jarodrussell, 2009-03-25 04:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jlbarnett, 2009-03-25 05:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jarodrussell, 2009-03-25 05:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jlbarnett, 2009-03-25 06:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]janegray, 2009-03-25 05:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jarodrussell, 2009-03-25 05:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]janegray, 2009-03-25 06:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jarodrussell, 2009-03-25 06:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]janegray, 2009-03-25 06:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkknightjrk, 2009-04-02 07:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jlbarnett, 2009-03-25 04:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jarodrussell, 2009-03-25 04:45 pm UTC

[info]mullon
2009-03-25 11:37 am UTC (link)
That part where they introduce themselves to one antoher was always one of my favorite JLA moments. I always felt they ruined it though when its shown that they're clones.

I know they explain that they were just mimicking an earlier scene where that actually happened, but it still felt ruined to me.

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[info]janegray
2009-03-25 05:29 pm UTC (link)
Regardless, Bruce catches Clark's drift and calls the whole League into the Batcave, where they look for Bats and discover Bruce.

Wait a minute... I always assumed the JLers knew each other's secret identities since almost the very beginning. Instead they apparently worked together for years before finally unmasking?

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(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2009-03-25 09:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bluefall, 2009-03-25 10:22 pm UTC

[info]neotoma
2009-03-25 08:23 pm UTC (link)
He starts with Bruce, who just flipped out and beat some thugs bloody before Eel pistol-whipped him

Actually, I'm pretty sure he *ends* with Bruce, having collected all the other alter egos, who show up while Bruce is still being sick in the alley.

And Eel re-enacted the murder of Thomas and Martha Wayne by first demanding Bruce's date's necklace, and threatening them with a gun. Which is brilliant and *vicious*.

I love that Diana was able to goad the 6-D aliens into giving her the ability to rescue her friends. That's the spectacular tactical thinking she *should* be capable of

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About Plastic Man
[info]jlroberson
2009-03-25 10:05 pm UTC (link)
How was turning first into a fireplug, then a cup, supposed to help?

Also: is it just me that notices Diana's defiance of all laws of overlapping and perspective on those pages? (One of them is #27, the other's not numbered, but it's in the work of that terrible Top Cowish guy above) Or is she a giant here?

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Re: About Plastic Man - [info]bluefall, 2009-03-25 10:18 pm UTC
Re: About Plastic Man - [info]bariman1987, 2009-03-26 05:30 pm UTC


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