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Tweak says, "Up top, Robocop."

arbre_rieur (arbre_rieur) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-11-09 23:16:00

Entry tags:

creator: keith giffen, creator: kevin maguire, group: doom patrol, group: metal men, publisher: dc comics, title: doom patrol

The Metal Men second feature
People have posted from issues of the new Doom Patrol series, and it's good stuff, but so far we've all been neglecting the Metal Man second feature. That's unfortunate because it's also good stuff.

It's Giffen/DeMatteis and Kevin Maguire doing superhero humor. C'mon, there are two or three fans of that sort of thing in these parts, right?

Tin crashed the van during his driver's license test last issue, so the gang's taking a cab...

Tin springs into the building, while Magnus takes the stairs.

And a bit of the Doom Patrol front feature, as well, while I'm at it...:

(Does anyone recognize the name "Teiresian" from anywhere?)

I'm finding that the tonal contrast between the two features makes for a really nice balance.

(Post a new comment)

	drsevarius 2009-11-10 07:32 am UTC (link)
	Four pages were already posted, you should probably rm the DP stuff. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	darklorelei 2009-11-10 07:37 am UTC (link)
	It's 7 total... (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	drsevarius 2009-11-10 07:48 am UTC (link)
	My bad, sorry. :o (Reply to this) (Parent)

	kamino_neko 2009-11-10 07:56 am UTC (link)
	The allowable limit for a typical issue is 7 pages (that is, 1/3 of the book, so longer issues could have more pages), though there's a secondary limit of any one person posting only 4 pages from a new-ish issue, so that other people have a chance to post other bits, which I'm guessing is what tripped you. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	manofbats 2009-11-10 07:54 am UTC (link)
	I love the new Doom Patrol series. They're really doing a great job of showcasing why these guys are so off-center. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	jlroberson 2009-11-10 10:11 am UTC (link)
	Agreed. Good stuff, and these two features are extremely good matches. Also: New Age DeMatteis bad. Very bad. Wisecracking DeMatteis? I can't stop laughing. Why is that? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

thehefner
2009-11-11 03:15 am UTC (link)

I keep hoping someone, someday, will post a retrospective of DeMatteis' SPECTRE, just to see what others here might make of it. Maybe it's better than I remembered? Maybe?

I mean, Hal Jordan and DeMatteis' work like JLI, KRAVEN'S LAST HUNT, and GOING SANE are some of my very favorite comic-booky stuff in the world, but they just... didn't work.

That said, Sinestro's costume there was the most badass he's ever looked. Much snazzier than even his current snazzy gold costume, plus it compliments his magenta skin better.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	icon_uk 2009-11-10 08:08 am UTC (link)
	Does anyone recognize the name "Teiresian" from anywhere? Sure, Teiresias (Reply to this) (Thread)

	arbre_rieur 2009-11-11 08:37 am UTC (link)
	Ah. I was thinking more in terms of an obscure DC Comics alien race, but your idea makes sense. Is there a connection beyond gender-switching being similar to body-transferring/shapeshifting? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

icon_uk
2009-11-11 02:33 pm UTC (link)

Not in general, though there is the case of Cloud, formerly of the Defenders.

An amnesiac, sentient nebula who'd taken imprints from two humans when she crashed on Earth, her assumed form was of a naked human female (naked apart from some discreet clouding up of appropriate body parts for a CCA comic) but on occasion "she" would switch and take on a basically similar but decidedly male form. Whilst at first it might have been meant to suggest that she was mimicking a human form and every now and again just got the XX/XY genes mixed up when constructing a solid form, eventually it was revealed that she just happened to imprint on two young lovebirds who just happened to look almost identical to each other. IIRC she ended up returning to her own part of the galaxy, but kept a human imprint around because she'd enjoyed the experience.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	kamino_neko 2009-11-11 11:01 pm UTC (link)
	it was revealed that she just happened to imprint on two young lovebirds who just happened to look almost identical to each other ... Wow, Narcissus, eat your heart out! (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	icon_uk 2009-11-11 11:13 pm UTC (link)
	It was something of a let down as a reveal, but Cloud's past had always been a bit elaborate, with false memories within amnesia within trauma... (Reply to this) (Parent)

kamino_neko
2009-11-10 08:10 am UTC (link)

I don't much like the Metal Men feature, I have to admit.

Part of it is not really liking Maguire's art on it - it's too...rubbery to read as 'real', yet too realistic to read as 'cartoony', so it falls into a sort of 'uncanny valley' situation - I'm afraid to look back at the old Giffen/Dimatteis/Maguire Justice League to see if it's his art, or my tastes that have changed...if the latter, I don't want to ruin memories of the series.

Part of it is...Giffen and Dimatteis have been pretty LAZY about it. This issue is the first not to feature multiple uses of jokes about nobody remembering that Copper exists and Gold being an egomaniacal jerkass. And in an eight page feature, those jokes have been using up a lot of panel space that could have been used for something actually entertaining.

Now, this issue didn't feature either of those jokes, and used the other running gags that don't involve Tin sparingly, so it's at least a sign that it might shape up. I'm sure hoping it will, since I expect better from the team.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

rdfox
2009-11-10 05:21 pm UTC (link)

Ironically, I'm in exactly the *opposite* situation, going "meh" at the main feature but making sure it's right at the top of the pull list for the Metal Men.

The main feature, to me, feels like it can't decide whether it wants to be a GRIMDARK action/suspense book, or a classic Bwa-Ha-Ha Giffen/DeMatties book. I'm the first to say that you need to have a little comic relief in a grim-and-gritty story, and a bit of darkness in a comedic one (think of it as being like a photograph--no light at all, and you get just a black image with no interest or detail; no darkness at all, and you get a pure *white* image with no interest or detail. It's all about the contrast!), but the main feature just isn't really settling in on what it wants to be. I mean, there's all this dark, grim, horrible stuff (tell me what happened to Rita in the last two issues wasn't horrifying!), but it's constantly snapping off wisecracks, too, and the result is that you end up with a mess where you can't tell what it's supposed to be. Either ease off on the jokes a bit, so we can get into the appropriately dark mood for the subject matter, or back off the darkness and make it more dark comedy, so we can sit back and laugh at it.

Meanwhile, Metal Men is unapologetically in the Bwa-Ha-Ha realm, with a tone like the JLI books had, and it makes it more enjoyable to read.

YMMV, of course, but that's my take on it.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	jamspread 2009-11-10 07:44 pm UTC (link)
	I know what you mean about the art. The Metal Men are shiny, but not in a metalic way, which kind of bugs me. Even though they can stretch themselves out, I don't like them looking like Plastic Man. But I do love Maguire's art, mostly for the facial expressions. It just might not work here. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	Mod Note angelophile 2009-11-10 09:36 am UTC (link)
	Please note that the posting limits are 1/3 of a work. The Metal Man second feature is 8 pages, which would mean that the posting limit is 2.6 pages, not the 3.3 you have here. Please edit your post accordingly. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	Re: Mod Note arbre_rieur 2009-11-10 09:42 am UTC (link)
	It's 10 pages. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Re: Mod Note angelophile 2009-11-10 10:50 am UTC (link)
	Ah, okay, thanks for the clarification. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	mullon 2009-11-10 03:14 pm UTC (link)
	I didn't realize Magnus was such a dick. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	cmdr_zoom 2009-11-10 03:46 pm UTC (link)
	Oh yeah. Almost always. "You're not people, you're just things." Repeat. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	glprime 2009-11-10 04:10 pm UTC (link)
	And yet he goes on to argue the Metal Men should not be referred to as "property." Then again, Doc is crazier than a crazy salad special at the crazy cafe, so I'm more lenient on character inconsistencies. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	jamspread 2009-11-10 07:49 pm UTC (link)
	I think it shows Doc does have a soft spot for his Metal Men. He says here that he could fix Tina's personality by making her a man, but he hasn't. As much as he acts like a dick and claims they aren't people, they do mean a lot to him. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	cmdr_zoom 2009-11-11 05:23 am UTC (link)
	and to be "fair", I seem to recall he isn't all that pleasant to unquestionably sentient and living beings either. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	ex_menagerie993 2009-11-10 04:34 pm UTC (link)
	I like both of these a great deal I think. (Reply to this)

	jcbaggee 2009-11-10 08:10 pm UTC (link)
	Love that Magnus takes time out of his moment of crisis to clarify for anyone listening that he doesn't actually believe in a God. (Reply to this)

	foxhack 2009-11-11 02:58 am UTC (link)
	Wait a sec. Does that mean that Cliff's robotic head doesn't hold his brain anymore? DOES his brain still exist somewhere? O_o (Reply to this) (Thread)

	arbre_rieur 2009-11-11 08:34 am UTC (link)
	I think the idea is that each new head has a clone brain or at least pseudo-brain housed within. (Reply to this) (Parent)

kamino_neko
2009-11-11 12:12 pm UTC (link)

Not a new idea...his original brain was destroyed during Morrison's run and...and...and...crap, it's been so long. I remember it was replaced, but I can't remember HOW. Something weird involving Dorothy, anyway. On the other hand, he was wholly mechanical for the rest of Morrison's run, and part of Pollack's. (ISTR his mind being stored on a floppy disk. For just such an occasion.)

I don't know if Pollack's run was restored with Morrison's (and presumably Arcudi's, since Fever's shown up...and...er...died), and if it's not, it's unclear just when Cliff was restored to...at least something resembling a brain. (Although if Arcudi's is in continuity, it becomes iffy without Pollack's.)

(Reply to this) (Parent)

psychop_rex
2009-11-11 08:08 am UTC (link)

As a big-time Metal Men fan, I ought to be thrilled by this, but I'm... not, really.
For one thing, the artwork is a little weird. As others have mentioned, the Metal Men look reflective, but not metallic - and the one thing that a group called the METAL Men should look like is metallic. For another, the little lines of rivets that used to outline them have been abolished, and while this actually makes sense - after all, they're just solid hunks of metal animated by responsometers; they have no NEED for rivets - it does away with the charmingly old-fashioned look they've always had. Tin, especially, looks more like some sort of an Anime character than a robot created in the early '60's.
For another, something is off about the writing. One thing that has always defined the Metal Men is the interaction between the characters - they each have well-defined roles to play, and the humor comes from them bouncing off each other. Gold is the stalwart leader and team straight man, Iron is the strong, dependable type, Lead is none too bright but gives his all, Mercury is largely an egomaniacal jerk, but has his better moments, Tin is shy and neurotic and obsessed with proving his worth to the team, Tina is bright and spunky and hopelessly in love with Doc Magnus, and Magnus, for his part, alternates between pride, exasperation, and out-and-out craziness. (And then there's Copper, who is new, and who I don't really know much about.)
I'm not seeing any of that here. True, only three of the team show up here, but if this is anything to go by, the dynamic is off. Mercury is OK, but Tin is a bit too passive here. The old Tin would NEVER admit to having a confidence problem - he's convinced that his problem is that everyone else is better than him, not that his confidence is low. And yes, one could call this character development, but the thing with Tin was that, despite his neuroses, confidence was never his problem. Sure, he's shy and timid as all get-out, but he's always one of the first ones into the fray, because he wants to PROVE himself - if anything, his problem is recklessness, not low confidence. He's always beating himself up for past mistakes and promising he'll do better next time - it's this combination of neuroses and resolve that make him an effective character. Tin may be the archetypical shy guy, but he's not a wimp or a milquetoast - he's got guts to beat the band; he just won't admit it.
And Doc... well, the best I can say about Doc is that he doesn't blather on like that. Sure, he constantly brings up the point that Tina can't really be in love with him because she's just a robot, dammit, but he generally does this in response to her coming on to him in some way. It makes sense there; it serves little purpose here. This isn't character interaction, this is Magnus talking while Tin waits humbly for a chance to stick an oar in. It doesn't advance the story, it doesn't do anything except to underline what we already knew. Basically, it's filler - and I've never really gotten a taste for filler.
And on top of all that, WHERE THE HELL IS DOC'S PIPE? Doc Magnus is just not Doc Magnus unless he's perpetually chewing on a pipestem. It's not like he even smokes the damn thing, he just toys with it, but it should be THERE, dammit. Would you change Wolverine's hairdo? Would you give Clark Kent contact lenses? I tell you, the PC police have gone too far this time.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	arbre_rieur 2009-11-11 08:42 am UTC (link)
	Is there any reason the Metal Man ought to look like -- that it'd be desirable for them to look like -- something out of the 60s? We don't expect Superman to look like he stepped out of the late 30s. Anyway, now I'm really curious as to what you'll think of the previous issues, once I post them. I have a suspicion you won't especially fancy their Gold. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

psychop_rex
2009-11-11 10:18 am UTC (link)

They don't have to look EXACTLY like something out of the '60's, no, of course not, but their look should acknowledge their past. I believe that a superhero should retain elements of the era when they were created. Superman was created in the late '30's, as you mentioned, and a number of good Superman stories have echoes of that era - the sort of boy-scout innocence that he has always had at least a vestige of is very '30's. He's all about a sort of idealized version of ourselves that Depression-era America found very appealing. Likewise, Batman was created with a very Noir sort of sensibility, and it shows - look at DCAU Gotham, where everyone still dresses like it's the '40's. The Metal Men were created in an era of science fiction which they in many ways epitomized - giant monsters, aliens, robots, death rays, flying saucers - and they work best, I think when they reflect that era. There's certainly nothing wrong with adding a modern sensibility to the mix, but when you forget where and when a character comes from, then you forget how to make them work.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

kamino_neko
2009-11-11 12:44 pm UTC (link)

To give you some examples of the characterization (and further explain why the writing hasn't impressed me so far)...

Mercury's not particularly egotistical. He's just a jerk. And obsessed with Douglas, Robot Hunter.
Gold, on the other hand...has become a walking ego. In issue 2, he calls himself 'The World's Greatest Superhero'. And seems genuinely shocked when Tina is kind of gobsmacked by that.
Copper's only consistent character trait is being so forgettable that everyone - including Doc and Tin - are quite able to forget she's there, sometimes while talking to her. In issue 1, Tina actually manages to do so while defending her. That got old real fast. (About the third time it came up in issue 1.)

Iron has barely showed up, and Lead isn't too bad...certainly better than the glacial slowness of the version in that Superman/Batman arc with the OMAC.

They, Tina and Tin all have their dominant character notes intact, if not always executed well (Tina actually comes across as a vaguely dangerous stalker, not an annoyance), at least.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	psychop_rex 2009-11-11 01:16 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, sounds a bit off, all right. I own a copy of 'Metal Men Achives, Vol. 1' - one of these days, I'll post something from it. (Reply to this) (Parent)