InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "Shut up!!! Not you, them!"

Doop (xdoop) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-11-05 17:08:00

Entry tags:

char: green goblin/norman osborn, char: mystique/raven darkholme, creator: leonard kirk, creator: paul cornell, title: dark x-men

Dark X-Men #1 preview

You can see the rest of the preview over here.

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	okkult3000 2009-11-06 07:14 am UTC (link)
	You're right; murdering Moira MacTaggert, trying to murder her own children, and trying to wipe out the human race was wrong. But her heart was in the right place, I suppose. She only kills so much because she loves SO MUCH. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

angelophile
2009-11-06 10:06 am UTC (link)

To be fair, as Doop says, the motivation behind those actions was to try and save the mutant race. She couldn't give a rats ass about humanity certainly, but she's definitely more in the terrorist/freedom fighter mold than just some random psychotic who runs around killing people for no reason. She has a cause.

What's interesting about Mystique is that, like Magneto, it's possible to sympathize with her motivations, if not her methods. I personally find that makes villains much more compelling than someone who just kills for the sake of killing.

Anyway, she's more sociopathic than psychopathic, in my opinion.

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icon_uk
2009-11-06 04:17 pm UTC (link)

To be fair, as Doop says, the motivation behind those actions was to try and save the mutant race. She couldn't give a rats ass about humanity certainly,

She actively tried to wipe them out, that goes beyond "doesn't agree with their outlook" IMHO.

but she's definitely more in the terrorist/freedom fighter mold than just some random psychotic who runs around killing people for no reason. She has a cause.

Or an excuse, depending on how you look at it.

What's interesting about Mystique is that, like Magneto, it's possible to sympathize with her motivations, if not her methods. I personally find that makes villains much more compelling than someone who just kills for the sake of killing.

Up to a point yes, indeed, I thought probably the best line of the X2 movie was her reply to Nightcrawler when he asked why she didn't just use her powers to pass as human all the time; "Because I shouldn't have to". She's absolutely right, but that doesn't excuse her casually murdering people.

Anyway, she's more sociopathic than psychopathic, in my opinion.

Perhaps, though I'm not sure that makes her any less of a monster.

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xdoop
2009-11-06 01:31 pm UTC (link)

I'll just repost what I told you in noscans_daily.

I noticed most of your examples are from the "Dream's End" storyline; I don't think that should really be considered as representative of her character. I mean, a lot of the stuff she did there was worse than anything she had done before (Mystique wouldn't try to kill Rogue like she did). And even then it was clear she wasn't in her right mind.

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	okkult3000 2009-11-06 03:40 pm UTC (link)
	It's in continuity. If Spider-Man tried to wipe out the human race, people would hold it against him. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	xdoop 2009-11-06 03:44 pm UTC (link)
	So you're judging the character based on one storyline, and nothing that came before or after. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

icon_uk
2009-11-06 03:59 pm UTC (link)

When the action is as important as attempted worldwide genocide, and has not been invalidated or contradicted, then yes, I think we don't really have much choice in the matter. It happened, deal with it.

Do I like when Chuck Austen wrote the Draco, or that one about the exploding communion wafers being used to try and fake a Rapture that Catholics don't believe in? Hell no, but it happened.

Do I like the fact that Bruce Jones had Dick Grayson cruise bars and pick up a woman whose name he didn't want to know to indulge in meaningless sex? Hell no, but it happened.

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xdoop
2009-11-06 04:21 pm UTC (link)

When the action is as important as attempted worldwide genocide, and has not been invalidated or contradicted, then yes, I think we don't really have much choice in the matter. It happened, deal with it.

And yet that didn't stop Xavier from having Mystique be his agent, or the X-Men from giving her a probationary place on their team.

And Thanos has done far worse, and that didn't stop him from redeeming himself.

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icon_uk
2009-11-06 05:20 pm UTC (link)

And yet that didn't stop Xavier from having Mystique be his agent, or the X-Men from giving her a probationary place on their team.

This is true, but I also recall many, many X-Fans at the time reacting with disbelief about those decisions, with much facepalming and WTF-ing.

And Thanos has done far worse, and that didn't stop him from redeeming himself.

If she DOES redeem herself fine, though it'll have to be pretty impressive redemption.

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	xdoop 2009-11-06 05:21 pm UTC (link)
	I recall Mystique's series being pretty well-received. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	icon_uk 2009-11-06 06:45 pm UTC (link)
	The series was, the concept behind it was not, and indeed it went out of it's way to ignore then events. Xavier using the woman who had murdered the woman he had loved in his youth was a REAL "Hunh?" notion. (Reply to this) (Parent)

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