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sailorlibra (sailorlibra) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-10-31 16:21:00

Entry tags:

char: batgirl/oracle/barbara gordon, char: lois lane, creator: gail simone, creator: nicola scott, publisher: dc comics, title: birds of prey

When Babs met Lois Lane
From Gail's run on BoP comes one of my favorite Lois showings in a non-Superman book.

Context: Babs is in trouble with a government agent she used to know who is seeking to control her. While she's talking to Katarina--the government agent--someone interrupts them. (Note that the first two scans are from BoP 101, whereas the rest are from BoP 102, thus staying within the scan number limits.)

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	bluefall 2009-11-02 08:37 am UTC (link)
	You're saying that Lois, given the information "Oracle has connections to the Justice League," wouldn't pursue that lead, and couldn't find out the truth behind the rumor? And you think I'm underselling her. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

gailsimone
2009-11-02 09:21 am UTC (link)

Because you ARE. You're again talking about her as an adjunct to Superman with no resources or function of her own.

The quote is, "supposed to have ties all the way up to the JLA," which is pretty vague, for a start, but secondly, if Lois had a file with evidence that, say, Plastic Man, had taken down a senator and caused an international incident by organizing a Mexican prison break among other things, why WOULDN'T she investigate on her own? It is what her character was created to do, her original motivation for living. Again, you have made connections the characters don't have...Lois doesn't know Oracle, and Superman isn't going home saying, "Oh, by the way, we have this supersecret master hacker in the JLA now, named Oracle," to his nosy mega-reporter wife.

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thandrak
2009-11-03 12:19 am UTC (link)

You know, I swear that Princess Leia grabbing the blaster is a direct copy of Lois Lane with the machine gun in that Fleisher cartoon. SOMEWHERE on the internet is a kick-ass article with an analysis of Fleisher Lois in regards to the Progressive movement of the time. (See also: Nelly Bly. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nellie_Bly ) who could very probably be considered the Real Life Lois Lane.)

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01d55
2009-11-03 06:45 am UTC (link)

You seem to think Bluefall is arguing that Lois couldn't have done what she did here. Bluefall is saying that she wouldn't, because she could have known more going into the dinner and on the basis of that extra knowledge would have taken a friendly approach from the start.

She's not saying that, absent the Superman connection, she would have been stymied for lack of resource. The argument is as follows: A. "Just ask Superman" is an easy and obvious step that could tell Lois that Oracle exists, is a valuable member of the JLA, and is specifically connected to the Batman and B. Lois Lane is not Rube Goldberg. So she asks Superman and goes into the dinner with a preexisting confidence in Barbara's upright moral character (Could Lois have possibly failed to connect Barbara and Comissioner Gordon? Could she be ignorant of the fact that Gordon is the GCPD's strongest link to Batman?) which isn't evident in the scene.

Telling us that the one who's saying, "Lois shoulda known a bunch of stuff she would easily have known but apparently didn't know" is the one who's selling Lois short is a hard sell, Gail.

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gailsimone
2009-11-03 12:40 pm UTC (link)

"You seem to think Bluefall is arguing that Lois couldn't have done what she did here. Bluefall is saying that she wouldn't, because she could have known more going into the dinner and on the basis of that extra knowledge would have taken a friendly approach from the start."

Huh? No, I'm not. I don't even get why you would have that impression. I understand what Bluefall is saying and the canon doesn't back her up, nor does the story in question.

"She's not saying that, absent the Superman connection, she would have been stymied for lack of resource. "

WTF? Who said that?

"The argument is as follows: A. "Just ask Superman" is an easy and obvious step that could tell Lois that Oracle exists, is a valuable member of the JLA, and is specifically connected to the Batman and B. Lois Lane is not Rube Goldberg. So she asks Superman and goes into the dinner with a preexisting confidence in Barbara's upright moral character (Could Lois have possibly failed to connect Barbara and Comissioner Gordon? Could she be ignorant of the fact that Gordon is the GCPD's strongest link to Batman?) which isn't evident in the scene."

And I'm saying Bluefall made a common logical error, in that she already knew both players so she made a connection they have NEVER shown in the comics, ever. And "not evident in the scene" is intentional, we don't show Lois' dialogue.

It's not a big deal, but it IS repeatedly making a leap that makes no sense when talking about Oracle, an espionage agent, and Lois, a fearsome investigator to her very core.

"Telling us that the one who's saying, "Lois shoulda known a bunch of stuff she would easily have known but apparently didn't know" is the one who's selling Lois short is a hard sell, Gail."

I repeat, I know what the continuity is with those two books, having written them both. It makes absolutely zero sense that Superman would be telling Lois JLA secrets, particularly about an agent who works undercover. Superman wouldn't tell Lois anyone's secret identity, either. But more importantly, it's a fundamental misjudgment of what Lois is about. Lois doesn't drop a story this size on ANYONE's say-so. She did the investigative work, then talked to the subject at hand, and decided not to take Spy Smasher's bait. Thinking that all these people know everything we know isn't really thinking of the characters.

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