InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "Feel the Rage."

drsevarius (drsevarius) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-10-14 17:20:00

Entry tags:

char: robin/red robin/tim drake, char: superboy/kon-el/conner kent, creator: francis manapul, creator: geoff johns, title: adventure comics

Adventure Comics #3

Tim is helping Conner find one of Luthor's labs.

Conner uses his tactile telekinesis to open the door, and realizes that Luthor hasn't been there in a while.

Meanwhile, Luthor tells Brainiac to drop him off in Smallville.

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	aeolos_sakya 2009-10-15 12:22 am UTC (link)
	I've always liked the Red Robin costume. I don't know why. But to me it seems like something cool. I really don't mind Tim taking the identity, just the fact that he's been pushing people away. I guess that's why this issue is great. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

manofbats
2009-10-15 12:26 am UTC (link)

Well to me Tim is the only sidekick who is thinking rationally. It seemed like Dick assumed Bruce was dead at the end of RIP, Damian's been waiting for Bruce to die so that he can inherit the cowl, and now everyone has just accepted that he's dead even though less clever heroes have escaped death in even more dire circumstances.

Tim's just kind of the only rational mind there going "Uh... hello? People, we're talking about the god damned Batman."

And the funny part is that Tim's right, so he just might be the only sidekick who is in Bruce's good graces when he comes back.

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kamino_neko
2009-10-15 07:40 pm UTC (link)

OF COURSE everyone accepted that he's dead.

Coming back from the dead is rare - even among superheroes - Blackest Night would be far less populous and effective if it weren't - and entirely based on luck (or, rather, writer's whim), not cleverness, rarely even strength of will. Someone who was a Titan would know this better than most. The number of truly dead Titans is approximately twice the number who have died and come back. All of them (including Tim) have dead loved ones.

Yet, Tim thinks Bruce has got to be one of those oh-so-rare lucky ones who manages to crawl back, even before he gets evidence. That's not thinking rationally, that's getting stuck thoroughly in denial.

And I doubt Bruce is going to be happy about Tim abandoning the mission for this.

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manofbats
2009-10-15 08:00 pm UTC (link)

We're not talking about a Titan. We're talking THE Batman. Any rational thinking hero who knows Batman wouldn't immediately assume he is dead. It makes sense with the Green Arrow, Barry Allen, Hal Jordan, or those Titans nobody cares enough about to bring back because they don't have the same reputation of escaping death and impossible situations.

And yes, Tim does have to think Bruce is one of the oh-so-rare lucky ones because he's Bruce Wayne. As a member of the superhero community Tim has seen a few less clever heroes crawl back from death, usually with help. In this case Bruce has the advantage of not actually being dead. Realistically there should be a lot more people in the hero community besides Tim and Conner counting down the days until Bruce comes back because if Oliver Queen can do it, Bruce Wayne can do it with no hands.

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kamino_neko
2009-10-15 08:11 pm UTC (link)

Oh, nonsense.

Batman is a human being. A human being reduced to a skeleton and a costume. Which they buried.

And, again, coming back from the dead has NOTHING to do with being clever.

Far more clever people than Bruce 'I work with magicians, but insist magic doesn't work' Wayne are still languishing in the afterlife. Far less clever people have come back.

Rational absorption of the concept that sometimes the dead come back involves not being too terribly surprised when someone does to come back.

Insisting that someone whose corpse EVERYONE had seen - whose headless corpse you had seen not long ago - is not rational. It's pure insanity.

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manofbats
2009-10-15 10:27 pm UTC (link)

All of that would make sense if the DCU operated the same way our world does.

Yeah, they saw his corpse... right after an epic war fought for the whole of existence involving gods, multiple universes, time travel, multiple versions of heroes, villains, and all sorts of craziness.

Yet it doesn't dawn upon anyone that during that whole mess the corpse they buried might have belonged to a Batman from another universe, another time, or whatever.

Applying normal laws of life and death in this case is insane.

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kamino_neko
2009-10-16 02:24 am UTC (link)

Oh, for Pete's sake.

99.99999999% of people who die do not come back.

The numbers for the cape and cowl crowd are moderately better, but still, the vast majority, when they die, stay dead.

Again, they've built an entire event around that fact.

Tim Drake lives in the DCU, not the real world, so the fact that they won't leave one of their most popular characters dead for long is not something he'd know.

It is NOT rational to think that a man whose corpse you've seen, who has NO special powers, NO divine contacts - not even a belief in the afterlife - is going to be one of that very small handful of lucky ones.

RATIONAL is the speech Superman gave at J'onn's funeral - 'let's hope he's one of the lucky ones'.

'I don't care that I saw the body, he's ALIVE!' is the very definition of IRRATIONAL.

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manofbats
2009-10-16 02:32 am UTC (link)

Again, it's not irrational to doubt that he is dead when you've just finished fighting a war involving multiple universes, multiple versions of heroes, time travel, an actual Deus Ex Machina, and Gods.

Had Batman died during No Man's Land then Tim would be thinking irrationally, but he didn't. He "died" during an event where 50+ Supermen from various worlds fought a vampire.

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kamino_neko
2009-10-16 02:43 am UTC (link)

Yes, it is irrational.

There is evidence he is dead. The body, carried by Superman, after he was killed by Darkseid.

There was, when he began his monomaniacal rejection of everything Bruce stood for in order to search for him, no evidence that he's not dead.

There's a vague possibility that something about the situation of his death could make it non-permanent. But that's not evidence, that's a possible, but unsupported, alternate explanation. and when you compare 'evidence' against 'no evidence', rejecting 'evidence' is not rational.

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manofbats
2009-10-16 02:50 am UTC (link)

A rational mind would think this is Batman, the ultimate escape artist, nobody actually saw him die, we just finished a war spanning multiple universes, I saw 50 Supermen, some of the other heroes are claiming this war was also fought in the future, what if this isn't our Batman?

An irrational mind would think well here's a corpse and it must be our Bruce because it is wearing his suit, let's bury him and call it the day.

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	drsevarius 2009-10-15 09:13 pm UTC (link)
	Except Ollie didn't come back on his own; Parallax!Hal brought him back. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	manofbats 2009-10-15 10:21 pm UTC (link)
	Didn't say he did, he's one of the less clever heroes who needed help. (Reply to this) (Parent)

sistermagpie
2009-10-15 08:02 pm UTC (link)

I agree. Really, if they pull it off, they've done it pretty well the way they've made Tim both right and clearly acting off emotions and denial. He says to Conner here that he's not going to "give up on" Bruce like he did on Conner but...that's just seriously screwed up. You don't give up on someone by grieving them when they've been shot by a gun that left behind a burnt-out corpse.

I would guess that when it comes to bringing Bruce back the family will come back together to get him. But I still wonder how they'll deal with Tim's plan that Bruce comes back and then things go back to the way they were when Tim was a couple years younger.

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	kamino_neko 2009-10-15 08:34 pm UTC (link)
	Really, if they pull it off, they've done it pretty well the way they've made Tim both right and clearly acting off emotions and denial. Yeah, this is my favourite part. He's right, but his reasoning is not. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	stratosfyr 2009-10-16 01:55 am UTC (link)
	Tiny Capt. Canuck III FTW! (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	kamino_neko 2009-10-16 02:30 am UTC (link)
	Yay, someone recognized him! I really wish they'd finished Legacy... (Reply to this) (Parent)

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