The last list was TRYING to say what I just said - I just phrased things differently. It's not my fault if these things always seem a lot more obvious inside my head. And yes, 'Batman is a martial artist and he uses other skills too' is a fairly accurate description - which is why I don't think of him PRIMARILY as a martial artist. Batman's primary skills, to my way of thinking, are his skills as a detective and master manipulator - he can kick crooks' asses, yes, but he wouldn't be the major crimefighter that he is if he couldn't also outwit them, intimidate them, and track them down. To my way of thinking, that makes him a detective first and a martial artist second - if you took away the martial arts skills, he'd still find a way to do what he does. This is opposed to someone like Iron Fist, whose whole THING is that he's a martial artist - if you took that away, he wouldn't be able to function as a crimefighter. Basically, my way of thinking is this - if you're known first and foremost as someone who can kick ass in combat, minus conspicuous super-strength, etc., then your basic definition is going to be that of a martial artist. If, on the other hand, the martial arts are just one of a number of different skills that you can pull out of your hat at a moment's notice, and you are known more for those skills than for the martial arts ones, then 'martial artist' is not going to be the first thing that comes to mind when people think of you. Sherlock Holmes knew Judo, but that doesn't make him a martial artist - it makes him a detective who knew Judo.