InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "PUDDING!"

starwolf_oakley (starwolf_oakley) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-09-23 23:27:00

Entry tags:

publisher: wildstorm, title: the authority

runespoor7's post of Jason Todd talking to Mia Dearden led to a thread discussion about billionaire vigilantes beating up poor criminals.

A panel from THE AUTHORITY: TRANSFER OF POWER shows that at least a few comic creators are aware of this.

"The Authority" was always pretty "out there" for superheroes. But that's Warren Ellis and Mark Millar for you.

For more than a few superheroes, actually being a superhero can be seen as a case of Noblesse Oblige. Noblesse Oblige can be seen as "With great power comes great responsibility... and a really smug sense of superiority."

It came back to Batman, as these things do. After all, we never really go into detail about how "well-off" the Kents were from farming, or how much Clark Kent's Daily Planet take-home pay is. Some seem to think it ties into "Lonely Place of Dying," that since Tim Drake's family is wealthy, Tim isn't as "street" as Jason Todd.

Quotes from users via http://asylums.insanejournal.com/scans_daily/987439.html?thread=27947311#t27947311:

runespoor7 said: "The fact is, 'Oh, Jason was lower class and her turned out badly, and then he was replaced by Tim, who came from a good family the same side of the streets as Bruce and who did very well as Robin' leaves a strange impression."

lynxara said: "In particular, confronting the class issues at work in the Batman stuff is impossible without coming to the conclusion that most of the characters involved are selfish monsters so steeped in white privilege that they've lost all grasp of reality."

icon_uk said: "Dick was suddenly an ethnic Romany with angst about the likelihood of him ending up in jail like so many of his kin."

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	trelas 2009-09-24 05:03 am UTC (link)
	Your second point basically sums it up for me. The first point resulted a bit complicated. Jason didn't turn out badly because they wanted him dead. That just got him dead, with the majority of voters wanting that. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

aaron_bourque
2009-09-24 05:15 am UTC (link)

The majority of voters wanted that because Jim Starlin wrote him as unsympathetically as he could get away with, because he wanted him dead. And it wasn't even Jason Todd he wanted dead, it was just Robin. I don't remember where I read it, and I may be misremembering, but I think he once gave an interview where he said he would have done the same thing if Dick Grayson were still Robin.

Anyway, my less measured thoughts on the subject on my own lj.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	kamino_neko 2009-09-24 05:36 am UTC (link)
	Denny O'Neil is not Jim Starlin. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	aaron_bourque 2009-09-24 06:55 am UTC (link)
	Yes, and? Jim Starlin hated the idea of kid sidekicks and wanted Robin dead. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	aaron_bourque 2009-09-24 07:10 am UTC (link)
	http://www.universohq.com/quadrinhos/entrevista_starlin_eng01.cfm (Reply to this) (Parent)

trelas
2009-09-24 05:43 am UTC (link)

Good points in your journal. I especially agree with you about the fact that people often overlook the fact that Bruce used his vast wealth in those charities and economic programs instead of just dressing up and fighting crime.

The thing is that I did like the Jason brought back by Winick and established after that in flashbacks. I think that it fits the Bat-canon, is even required, for there to be failures, those who did not have what it took mentally. I also think that the fact that Jason was that one had less to do with him poor and of the options available he was most suitable due to his death.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

starwolf_oakley
2009-09-24 06:16 am UTC (link)

Well said.

I might have pressed the issue to far with my "Well, it can't hurt to talk about it" idea. I was trying to see Jason's "intentions" towards Mia, and where "We're from the streets, for reals, dawg" played into it. Which led to Leslie Thompkins talking about Batman beating up the "socially disadvantaged." Which led to... and so on and so forth.

I'm suddenly reminded of a (translated) line from Rififi, the classic French heist movie, where one of the criminals is compared to people who don't go into crime.

Louise: You're not the only one that had an unhappy childhood, there are millions like you, and, in my eyes, *they* are the tough ones, not you!

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

aaron_bourque
2009-09-24 07:00 am UTC (link)

Well, talking about it is okay. It's just the examples specifically cited are wonky out the wing-wang. And the whole argument that "entitled rich people are beating up the poor" is flawed in three ways, at least. Having such a character may potentially make a decent story, but to look at the way comics are and have been and reach that conclusion, you have to either warp the stories and characters out of whack, or have a rather warped world-view in the first place (or are taking the piss, but badly). It's sort of like how Batman and Robin are having a pedophilic relationship in the 40s and 50s. Sure, you can read it that way . . . but to do so seriously, you have to either fail at reading their characterization, or are simply reading waaaaayyyyyyy too much into it. And classism is a pet peeve of mine, as I say on my own journal. So I went from zero to rage in less than 2.6 seconds . . .

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	aaron_bourque 2009-09-24 07:01 am UTC (link)
	And classism is a pet peeve of mine, as I say on my own journal. Actually, it's not so much classism, but false accusations of "-ism" in any sense. Really gets to me. (Reply to this) (Parent)

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