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ALL WORDS ARE AWESOME WORDS!!!! (tryslora) wrote in rp_tutorials,
@ 2010-07-29 13:37:00

Rules
One thing I hate doing when I'm working on a new game is writing up the Rules post. There's such a fine line between saying too much and being too restrictive, to being too laid back about things. So I'm wondering a few things...

1. Can anyone point me to what they think was the absolute perfect set of rules/faq/information that they saw in a game they played in?

2. What rules do you like seeing, or expect to see information about?

3. What rules are a complete turn-off to you for a game?

Thanks to all! And as always, thank you to everyone in this community for all of the wonderful resources.

(Post a new comment)

jonasan13
2010-07-30 12:04 am UTC (link)

1. I think the answer to this question depends on the game itself. I like the set up for my own game. For me, the rules page is kept very simple on purpose. Anything and everything else just goes into the FAQ, which I tried to have flow in order of relevance. (If you'd like to see them, you can view here and here. I'm not trying to plug my game at all. It's actually quite dead. I just thought you might like my examples. =D)

2. I like to see a list of basic rules about how the mods expect players to behave, how often they should be active, and as well as as formats for posting in the respective communities. As far as that, I don't think there is a need for too many rules. A lot of stuff can just go into the FAQ. (Which is basically what I did if you've already looked at my links.)

3. I haven't seen many rules that are a turn off for me. The only thing I can think of is certain mod's requirements for activity. Some of the requirements I've seen are just ludicrous. I mean, if I'm required to post 5 times in the community, post 5 times in my character's journal, comment at least 20 times on other threads, etc. per month... That's a bit overboard. If someone is only posting once a month or something, that's a different matter. I play these games for fun, but some people make it feel like a full-time job, and I don't get paid to do this!

I hope this helped at all... =)

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	tryslora 2010-07-30 12:17 am UTC (link)
	Yes, it helps! And it occurs to me that I actually ought to have answered some of my own questions, too, which I will do after I finish here. Thank you for the examples! They're a good split without overloading the rules, and you have some things in the FAQ that I've put in rules before which just made them seem too long, so I'm thinking about that, too. Thanks! (Reply to this) (Parent)

tryslora
2010-07-30 12:22 am UTC (link)

I'm obviously floundering with writing up rules/faq pages, so I don't have good answers for 1 and 2 myself yet. But for #3, there's one I've run into which actually drives me nuts... I don't like rules which police the length of posts.

But that's because I don't headgame well, and I don't personally like posts which go on for three paragraphs of information with only one line of dialogue to respond to (or sometimes no dialogue). I'm happy with content that furthers a thread, whether that response is 1 sentence or 10, so I tend to avoid including rules which dictate that all posts have to be a certain minimum length.

(Reply to this)

babypickles
2010-07-30 04:55 am UTC (link)

I really like the rules at

seductionmod. They are simple and straightforward. Not a lot of do this ..but don't do that. I adopted them from several games I have modded over the years and things I like.

Personally I don't like rules limiting posting size. Sometimes I can write six paragraphs for my character and sometimes I can write four words. It all depends on the mood and what is happening.

FAQ's I like to cover aspects such as game info..rules. premise...other things all tied in together. And I like when the premise and rules are short and concise but the FAQ's cover other topics not mentioned.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	tryslora 2010-07-30 04:21 pm UTC (link)
	Thank you! And we're totally on the same page on post size rules. (Reply to this) (Parent)

warning tl;dr ahead!

spiffynerd
2010-07-30 07:32 am UTC (link)

1) I ~~may be~~ am definitely biased, but I like the rules at the game I'm currently modding. I personally think the perfect set of rules really depends on how you're running your game. At my game, we're really laid back about things--activity requirements are incredibly easy, we approve almost everything players want to do--it's just the way we run things. I've played in games before with even less rules than we have; I've also played in games with more rules, and I'm usually not turned off or onto a game by the kind of rules they have. The most important thing about which rules you choose is that you set out the rules you think you'll need in the beginning and then stick to them. If you decide later that a rule needs to be amended, post it in a public place, like the OOC community, so all players know about it. Don't expect them to check the rules page after they've joined, except when it comes time for an activity check and they're looking for the requirements.

2) That brings me to my next point. People know that most games are going to have something in the rules about acceptable behaviour, and usually just skim over this section. At my game we've condensed this into "don't be a dick"; some people like to spell this out more, which is probably more friendly to people new to RP. Both appers and existing players are looking at your rules pretty much just for activity requirements, character limits, posting lengths--numbers stuff that they have to stick to. I'd advise bolding this information, so they can catch it while skimming.

I use the FAQ as sort of a catch-all. It's the last thing we did at my game. After writing everything else, when things pop up that you've forgotten and don't fit anywhere else, that's where to put them. Don't expect players to check that either, unless they have a question. New players will usually read it during the app process, though.

3) To me, the tone of the rules/FAQ page is probably more important than the actual information. I've been RPing for a while, and so I know most of the rules that go along with it, so I'm looking for two things--the above-mentioned quantitative requirements for keeping up with the RP, and the personality the mods present. More than any other page, this is sort of a first impression of the mods' personalities OOC. I have been completely turned off of otherwise awesome-looking games by mods who seemed unfriendly or flat-out rude in answering FAQ questions. As said above, I don't like length requirements, but that's a personal thing because my writing style tends to be extremely concise and I have trouble stretching my posts to meet them.

...maaaan that was longer than intended. xD Hope it helps!

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	forgot something :\| spiffynerd 2010-07-30 07:35 am UTC (link)
	One more thing about the FAQ--if a player IMs you with a non-character-specific question OOC, once you've answered it, add it to the FAQ. Chances are if they've asked, someone else is wondering, and if you don't, you might forget what you said and give a different answer if asked later. Or maybe that's just me being scatterbrained. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: forgot something :|

tryslora
2010-07-30 04:25 pm UTC (link)

Oh no, it's not just you being scatterbrained, it's excellent advice. I try to remember to either update the FAQ or go back to the other reference pages (like my settings page) to update it when I'm asked a question. Having a proper FAQ will help for when people ask me questions there's no page for already...

And thank you for the samples, and more importantly, for the advice on tone. Once I stopped trying to be all business-speak and proper, the rules/faq started flowing right out of my fingertips, AND it sounds like me. I like this much better than any rules I've written before. So thank you.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

spacemonkey
2010-07-30 09:47 am UTC (link)

1. i don't have any examples since i'm not currently in any games, BUT

2. the basic rules formats i usually see come in three parts (and i find it easier to divide them this way when writing them): 1) player conduct and expectations, 2) character creation and storyline rules, and 3) world-specific rules, or what is and isn't possible per the game's canon. generally, the fewer the better--a lot of stuff one would be tempted to put in the rules can just as easily go in an faq section. that said, i like it when games have rules that address certain storylines, like "certain topics [rape, self-injury, ed, etc] are very triggering to some players and require mod approval and an lj-cut with a warning when they do get posted about", and have pb requirements--i.e., games that require people use ethnically/racially/age appropriate pbs.

3. when i was 16 games that had an 18+ rule made me so mad :P no but seriously, umm. ridiculous activity requirements, "passwords" you have to put in the app to get accepted, post word length minimums. journal name requirements i hate, although i accept the wisdom behind banning usernames with excessive underscores or random numbers or x's or whatever. i agree about the tone of the page being appropriate--you want to be firm without sounding like a dick. injecting a little humour never hurt.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	spacemonkey 2010-07-30 09:52 am UTC (link)
	oh i lied about not having a set of rules as an example. this is the rules page i'm working on for a game i'm tentatively thinking of opening, if you're interested in copying any of it, haha. it's longer than i would say is necessary or even wise i also really like this set of rules--it's concise and to the point while covering lots of bases. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	tryslora 2010-07-30 04:28 pm UTC (link)
	Thank you for the examples! I've been following the tone advice, and my rules are sounding much less irritating and much more like me, AND they are far easier to write. I'm totally including statements about pb appropriateness. (Reply to this) (Parent)

hammertech
2010-07-31 12:37 am UTC (link)

I don't really think there's such a thing as a perfect set of rules. I went through a ton of RPG's rules and saw what sort of things they covered (godmodding, mary sues, spelling, etc.) before setting up the <a href="http://asylums.insanejournal.com/rp_tutorials/14806.html>rules template</a> here. What turns me off a game is more the <i>tune</i> people take in rules and expecting players to do way too much (i.e. write a 5k entry explaining your character's wedding should such a thing occur!). No one wants to be treated like a three year old and so many rules go at it from that stance. You know what I'm talking about: I AM MOD AND MY WORD IS GOD YOU ARE JUST PLAYERS UNDER ME. MWAHAHHAHAHAAAAAA. Below I'll paste a rules page I was working and planned to post later or I'll do it in another entry. Hopefully it'll come in handy. :D

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	hammertech 2010-07-31 12:37 am UTC (link)
	Fail linking: rules template (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

tryslora
2010-07-31 01:01 am UTC (link)

Thank you! I think I actually have a draft of my rules written now (I hope). I went through your template to see if I missed anything, and the only I can think of is Mary Sue/Gary Stu, but I also think there's a part of me praying that the players who app are experienced enough that I don't have to say it. *wry smile*

I think you're right there on the begging for app length, and weirdly obsessive details. I'm a develop-in-play person myself, so I don't always know those details. I'm hoping to put together a fairly pared down application, but a stronger profile page (not all of which needs to be filled in at the beginning). Also, as a mod, I don't want to read all that detail. If it's important to how the character will be played, or how they will affect the world, I want to know it. If his favorite color is blue, that can be saved for a profile page.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

hammertech
2010-07-31 01:20 am UTC (link)

:D Hey. I honestly think RPers should be familiar with all the rules that tend to carry over (like godmodding) but it helps cover your ass if you have a conflict with a player later to say it up front. I explained my reasoning for having the rules (and having them tl;dr) as follows:

While most players are probably already generally familiar with the rules below, they've been reiterated here so that our expectations of players and the consequences of failing to meet them are clear. Instead of saying "be active", we've tried to make it abundantly clear what we consider being active.

This way, players don't have to worry about being unfairly removed and we mods don't get accused of treating players unfairly.

I actually didn't mean app length. App length can go either way for me. I had when people want word counts but I think paragraphs are fair (as they can be interpreted differently). I'm personally a person who has to develop before play so that might be it. I let players make changes to their application a week after the game starts, however, so people who do like to develop in play have an opportunity to change things. Personally, I love reading that much detail as it helps me establish my character's relationship with someone else's. So, I think that's more a matter of preference.

What's the difference between a profile page and app? I've always heard them used interchangeably.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

tryslora
2010-07-31 08:17 pm UTC (link)

(I have to keep like triple checking to make sure I'm replying here as me instead of an RP account *sighs*)

That's a good segment at the top. I may well adapt some of that for mine, and thank you for the idea!!

In terms of profile and app... often times they are the same thing, but I've been in games where the profile page is actually longer and more detailed than the app, so it'll include more information as the character is developed. The silly little things that I don't care about in app but that someone might want to record later, like descriptions of rooms, favorite food/color, that sort of thing. I don't need them in the original application, but it's good for someone to be reminded that they'll come in handy down the road. That's all.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	Here you go: hammertech 2010-07-31 01:04 am UTC (link)
	Here you go if you're interested. You'll probably have to edit the hell out of the info as I went for the "BETTER TO COVER EVERYTHING THAN NOT ENOUGH" method: http://chap-junk.insanejournal.com/50982.html (Reply to this) (Parent)

nimbuschick
2010-08-07 04:29 pm UTC (link)

jonasan13 said, it really depends on the game.

Here's my system for writing rules and what I've learned.

-Don't number them. Instead have it titled with a keyword or bold a keyword in it. It's easier to find and then your list doesn't look scary.

-Be inclusive. If you have seen it be a problem anywhere, make a rule. It's better to have a rule than to have someone later go "that's not in the rules that I have to play with more than just Draco in this community."

-Sort. It makes things seem less massive and a lot more approachable if you sort things into Icons, Players, Characters, Threads, etc.

-Make sure you address: the Ooc/Ic Line (powerplaying, adlibbing, but also taking IC conflict personally), Activity requirements (there is nothing that scares away a prospective player away more than no activity requirement), where you stand on canon, any specific posting formats you want, but also what belongs IC and what belongs in journals (owls, notices, emails, etc)

-If you're making rules about PBs, avoid banning people and instead make it a rule that PBs be age appropriate. If you ban people, make it a blanket ban (Anyone from the Harry Potter movies rather than a specific list of actors)

-Don't have the "we reserve the right to boot you at any time" rule. It used to be good to cover your ass on things you didn't think people were crazy/dramatastic enough to do. It's out of fashion, I suppose and it makes people think you're just going to start kicking people you don't like.

-Be clear. Take the time to find the right words. Example: "All characters are required to have an IC thread every fourteen days" means you could be hunting through every thread to make sure someone tagged. "All characters are required to ORIGINATE an in character action thread once every fourteen days" means they have to start the thread. It makes your players more proactive and it makes sweeps easier.

Whenever I want to make sure I didn't miss a rule, I look back at my old games. I would say look at games in ad communities if you aren't sure and see what rules you find reasonable and what you see as a turn-off.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	tryslora 2010-08-07 08:33 pm UTC (link)
	Thanks. I've gone with short rule set, and a longer FAQ after, which seems to be working out so far. fingers crossed (Reply to this) (Parent)