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- ([info]appended) wrote in [info]rp_tutorials,
@ 2011-12-17 16:30:00

Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:etiquette



This is not written about one person, game, line, friendship or concept in particular. If you find yourself to be questioning who this is about, my answer remains the same. Cyberbullying is something serious, and if you are a victim of any type of bullying and feel like you're alone or that there is no help, please go to this website and get help.

I’ve been writing for over 10 years now and nothing that I’ve written has been published. Most of my writing has been fan fiction which is really fun to write but it does nothing for any sort of portfolio. Through the years I’ve had chances to write with some really incredible people and create really fantastic relationships, but more days than not lately I’ve felt very disgusted with the way things are going in the world of RP. Lately, my biggest problem and source of frustration is the role of cyberbullying in the RP community.

            I know that this is a very sensitive subject and it leads to many controversial debates, often leaving two good friends on opposite ends of the spectrum but it is something that needs to be talked about.

            Many of us role-play as a form of entertainment and a way to keep our writing skills in check, regardless of fandom. It’s something that is supposed to be relaxing and fun, but for some people, the people you meet in games can often make you feel more isolated and alone than you were before you joined the game. I myself have felt this way recently and instead of taking a step down and being intimidated, I am standing up for myself and taking the risk to talk about it. I realize now that there may be a considerable amount of backlash for this post but at this point in my life, I’ve realized that there are things that you have to do to be more honest as a person, as a writer. As a friend.

            When I started to write this morning, I asked myself what I wanted to accomplish by posting this here and the truth is that there’s a difference between intent and accomplishment. All that I ask you to do is read this post and take in what is said here. I’m not looking to change the mind of anyone but if that happens, fantastic. If you yourself have been bullied and are too shy to say something (either online or in real life), you are not alone. If you yourself are a bully, maybe it’s time for you to cut the shit. Bullying only makes you feel better and there’s got to be a reason why you’re doing it to other people. “You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar.” This is so true! Also, “Treat others the way you want to be treated.” This is also true! People, we only get to live once! If you want people to love you, you have to love yourself first, and then love others first!


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From Wikipedia:
        “Cyber-bullying can be as simple as continuing to send e-mail to someone who has said they want no further contact with the sender, but it may also include threats, sexual remarks, pejorative labels (i.e. hate speech), ganging up on victims by making them the subject of ridicule in forums, and posting false statements as fact aimed at humiliation.


Cyber-bullies may disclose victims' personal data (e.g. real name, address, or workplace/schools) at websites or forums or may pose as the identity of a victim for the purpose of publishing material in their name that defames or ridicules them. Some cyber-bullies may also send threatening and harassing emails and instant messages to the victims, while other post rumors or gossip and instigate others to dislike and gang up on the target”.
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           There are so many avenues that we have to contact each other in this day and age that things travel quickly. The differences between OOC and IC can be crossed so easily that it can become hard for writers to distinguish the difference between a writer not liking a writer or conflict between two characters. For example, “Sally uses her Frank to attack other characters when she doesn’t like the player” is a very good example of a character being used as a weapon against other players, and Frank’s player thinks that it’s acceptable to act this way because it did not cross the OOC/IC line. Regardless of her intentions, what she accomplished was making another player feel as though they were being attacked. In high school, Sally may have a problem with you but she doesn’t want to tell you, so she’ll have her friend Frank tell you instead. Well, thanks a lot Sally but I’d rather just hear it from you.

        Furthermore, as players we have to constantly remember that everything that we say on the internet is permanent. I have chat logs from 1997 where people are attacking other people – anyone that you complain to about another person has that log and if they want to, they can and will use it against you. I’ve not only seen it happen, but it’s happened to me and I’ve done it to other people. When you’re part of a large group of people you can offend them without intention but again, it’s what you accomplish, not what you intend.

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        From Cyberbullying Research Center’s Cyberbullying Identification Prevention Response Fact Sheet:
            “Estimates of the number of youth who experience cyberbullying very widely (ranging from 10-40% or more), depending on the age of the group studied and how cyberbullying is formally defined. In our research, we inform students that cyberbullying is when someone “repeatedly makes fun of another person online or repeatedly picks on another person through email or text message, or when someone posts something online about another person that they don’t like”. Using this definition, about 20% of the over 4,400 randomly-selected 11-18 year old students in 2010 indicated they had been a victim at some point in their life. About this same number admitted to cyberbullying others in their lifetime. Finally, about 10% of kids in this recent study said they had been both a victim and an offender.”

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            I would be a liar if I said that I’ve never posted in a venting community. I would also be a liar if I said that I’ve never said a bad thing about another person in my entire life. The truth is, none of us are perfect – we all have things that we like and don’t like and those things can be found in other people quite often. The difference between disliking someone and picking on them because you don’t like someone is vastly different and is often overlooked because of the anonymity that the internet gives us. For example, Judy smells bad because she doesn’t shower enough is greatly different than Judy smells like shit so I’m going to give her a gift basket of body wash from myself and my three friends to get the point across. You could just as easily tell Judy that she needs to take a shower. Sure, it’s not easy, but it’s a hell of a lot nicer than giving her a gift basket with your three best friends.
           
Speaking of friends, there is another very important part of this subject that a lot of us have undoubtedly faced at one point in our lives: I know you’re friends with so-and-so, but she’s such a (insert something here). When I Googled “Defending a friend that is being bullied,” there were over 2,000,000 results. Two million results. There are two million instances on Google alone about people who have experienced this situation, or need help defending their friends. This often can be just as hard as being bullied because you don’t want to be bullied in return. I get it, I do. I’ve been there. At what point do we fight or flight? At what point is enough going to be enough to where we stick up for our friends? Do we get bullied or do we pray to god that it just stops and the bully goes away? Unfortunately, the bully does not go away. Unless a bully is stood up to and is told that they need to stop, they’re going to find another victim. Yes, you are safe for another round but they may come back. Bullies are relentless.
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         From Bullystatistics.org ‘s Facts on Bullying
            Facts on bullying:
            -Imbalance of power.Typically those who engage in bully-like behaviors use their strength, popularity or power to harm, control or manipulate others. They will usually target those who are weaker in size or may have a difficult time defending themselves.
            -Intent to cause harm. A bully is a person who does not do things by accident. The bully intends to physically or emotionally injure a person or group of persons.
            -Repetition. Typically incidents of bullying are not a one-time thing. Bullies target the same person or group over and over again.

            and:

            The facts on bullying also provide information on what types of signs to look for in children who might be bullying others:
            -Becomes frequently violent
            -Has trouble controlling anger
            -Is manipulative and controlling of others and situations
            -Is quick to blame others
            -Does not accept responsibility for their actions
            -Needs to win or be the best at everything

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Through research, it is shown that bullies often have more than one victim and do it for reasons that are more psychological than they are physical. When you say that you hate someone, why do you say it? Say it’s someone you don’t know: You see a pretty girl/guy walk by on the street. Her/his boyfriend/girlfriend is totally hot. ”What a bitch.” Why is she/he a bitch? Because she/he is walking down the street with her boyfriend/girlfriend? No, because she’s/he's pretty and her/his boyfriend/girlfriend is hot and you wish you had a hot boyfriend/girlfriend. Most people pick on others when they are feeling low about themselves and find a rise in hurting others. Think of all of the times when you said something mean to someone else: Why did you do it? Did you want them to feel bad about themselves? Did you feel smarter or more intelligent when you said that to them? How would you feel if someone did the same thing to you?

            “With cyber bullying, you can't escape from it. Fifty-four percent of the kids who were bullied said they didn't know who was bullying them on the Internet.”
                                                                                                            - Robin Kowalski

            As I said earlier, the only thing I wanted from this piece was to bring awareness to our community about the reality of cyberbullying and the effects that it can have on each other. If one person takes away something meaningful from this, I have done my job as a writer, sister, daughter and friend. Bullying will never go away but we can choose to rise above it and not let it happen to ourselves and each other.

            Thank you. Sorry if this got a little preachy.






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[info]jammiedodger
2011-12-18 05:16 pm UTC (link)
I don't know what caused you to post this, but it makes me sad to see it. I'm not sure what's prompted it, but I do have to say this: there are a lot of people who can't take in character conflict AT ALL. I'm not saying cyber-bullying doesn't happen in RP. It does. I've been a victim of it. However, there are also people who take any form of conflict to the extreme and freak out over it. There is a thin line here and as an RP community we need to make it clear: IC conflict is GOOD, OOC bullying is not.

That being said, to use your example above, "Frank is mean to my character, therefore Sally (as Frank's writer) is OOC bullying me", is NOT a valid conclusion. Characters shouldn't have to get along all the time. I don't get along with everyone in my life. Conflict (if handled properly) can help characters grow. Not all conflict should have to be pre-planned as life isn't pre-planned.

But again, IC conflict and OOC bullying ARE two different things. I just get tired of hearing the above example CONSTANTLY. Some people do need to learn to pull up their big girl panties.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]droa
2011-12-18 05:40 pm UTC (link)
I think the point appended was trying to make is that there are role-players who deliberately cross that line. Which is true -- just as the point you made is definitely, without doubt true. And between point A (appended's 'Frank's player thinks I'm a [whatever insult you'd like to apply here], so Frank-the-character is being used as a way to bully me') and point B (your 'Frank-the-character doesn't get along with my character, so they will butt heads IC with no OOC insult meant') is the attempt to determine which is what.

I've encountered situations where a player was not looked upon fondly by OOC cliques inside a game, and IC harassment was used as part of the aforementioned cyber-bullying. It happens, we all know it happens. And because the stereotype of RPers as passive-aggressive socially awkward penguins is often at least a little bit true, it is easy for that sort of shitty behavior to spiral out of control if someone doesn't step in. What it comes down to is a serious examination of the situation, and then handling it like adults. For some people that means hiking up their big girl panties and dealing with the much-dreaded confrontation -- 'I have noticed X. This makes me feel Y. Let's hash this out and put it to bed.' For others it means putting the catty schoolyard behavior away. And sometimes it's just reminding people that OOC ≠ IC. Everything is situational, subjective, but what it invariably comes down to is acting like empathetic human beings who share a love for the same hobby.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]jammiedodger
2011-12-19 02:16 am UTC (link)
I agree with you 100%. I know the original author's example happens. I also know my example happens and that needs to stop just as much. I've had people take a character of mine who was aggressive and confrontational, decide that I had OOC intent and use THAT as a reason to cyberbully me by posting things about me OOC and attacking my characters/writing. Meanwhile, their characters are bffs with other characters of mine and they don't even realize it.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]appended
2011-12-18 09:18 pm UTC (link)
My example above was not that "Frank is mean to my character, therefore Sally is OOC bullying me". The point of the example is that it is very hard to differentiate between the IC/OOC line, especially if someone feels like they are being attacked.

Look at it this way:

Player Jane has had OOC conflict with player Sally. Bob (Jane's character) has conflict with Frank (Sally's character), but there is no reason in the game or the previous posts for Bob to be rude to Frank. Bob has asked Frank to leave him alone, or go away, but Frank continues.

---

At this point, would you (as Jane) feel that the conflict that is happening because it is IC for Bob and Frank or because of the previous OOC history with Sally?


Yes, it would be easier to say that all IC conflict is not related to OOC conflict but as [info]droa said below, IC harassment due to OOC conflict does happen and that was the point that I was trying to illustrate here. I'm sorry for the confusion.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]darkwingduck
2011-12-19 12:13 am UTC (link)
No, we see the point you're trying to illustrate, certainly. I don't think it's possible to argue that it doesn't happen. At the same time though, it does require a lot of speculation and it also means that Jane is taking things said IC to be OOC attacks. Of course, the line is often blurred between OOC and IC but if 'Sally' assumed that 'Jane' was doing that then isn't the correct answer to speak to the player about it? Communication, when it comes to RP, is so important and it's often miscommunication and assumptions that lead people to believe they're being mistreated or bullied in the first place.

I don't know. To me, bleeding IC/OOC is bleeding IC/OOC and speculating that someone is attacking you just because you don't like them or you assume they don't like you is often times just as bad. Especially if it leads to 'Jane' using rpvents and similar communities to complain about the way she's being treated when, in all honesty, Sally might have seen it as an IC thing for the conflict to occur. (Like, sure, maybe Bob asked Frank to leave him alone, but maybe Frank wouldn't. That's all IC. It would be an entirely different story if Jane were to OOC ask Sally to leave her alone, I would think. It isn't fair to assume that a character's player gets your OOC intention, really.)

Additionally, RP is a game and that should be remembered. I think it's unfair to compare RP comments (and speculating about them) with things like Facebook 'hate' communities, or horrible comments and insults circulating on someone's personal blog, youtube account or anything else, all of which have lead people to do terrible things to themselves and others. I also think that, if someone feels particularly pressured or abused in a game or by certain players, they have choice and opportunities to take it to moderators or to just step away from the game but in real life, those options don't really exist.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]jammiedodger
2011-12-19 02:18 am UTC (link)
This. So hardcore. I think I love you.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]darkwingduck
2011-12-19 02:21 am UTC (link)
Aw, shucks.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]jammiedodger
2011-12-19 02:24 am UTC (link)
I understood exactly what you were trying to say. I was trying to point out how it happens the other way.

I was cyberbullied by people taking my IC actions to be OOC without them EVER having spoken to me OOC. I had a character who was aggressive and confrontational They decided I didn't like them OOC and I was a big meanie poo-poo head - even though we'd agreed our characters wouldn't get along in some cases. They proceeded to essentially RP-blacklist me. They tore me down FOR YEARS whenever they could find me and posted OOC information anywhere they could. Eventually, I hid myself well enough IC or they just stopped caring and it stopped. The irony of this being, they had characters who were bffs with mine IC, and they didn't even know it.

My only point is: assumptions in RP need to STOP. NEVER assume that because there is IC conflict someone's writer doesn't like you. If it's a pattern, then you should address it and has it out OOC, potentially with a moderator present. If it's all IC driven, then it isn't cyberbullying, no matter how much your feelings are being hurt. Especially if the writer doesn't know your feelings are being hurt.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]darkwingduck
2011-12-19 02:46 am UTC (link)
It's crappy that that happened to you, and I'm really glad that you're taking the time to point out that it happens the other way because I find that it happens the other way a lot. I feel like, honestly, everything would be so much better if people just took the time to communicate before they jumped to conclusions.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]jammiedodger
2011-12-19 02:52 am UTC (link)
Agreed. I was just saying to someone that I know there are some crazy writers who do use ALL of their characters to attack one writer or one character OR one character to attack all of another's characters, but those seem to be few and far between compared to the people who just assume you're one of those writers after some IC conflict. It's bad on both parts and line-blurring on both parts.

But it's now why I tend to not talk to people OOC, and I tend not to join games where everyone knows who everyone plays. That way if IC conflict does happen, my ignorance is my bliss. I don't even know you OOC; how can I have a problem with you? It's all IC driven.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]darkwingduck
2011-12-19 03:13 am UTC (link)
I've been accused of attacking people because of the things my characters have said or commented on IC in the past, and felt a lot of backlash for it which both shocked and floored me because I thought it was pretty understood that certain characters of mine were aggressive/mean/whatever. It sucks.

I totally understand what you're saying about not talking to people OOC and joining games without like, 'contact lists'. I think it's something I might look into in the future.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]darkwingduck
2011-12-19 12:30 am UTC (link)
I entirely agree with you. I also think it's unfair to 'Frank's writer' if the conclusion is immediately that one character only has a problem with another character because of OOC issues. There are assumptions being made, and a lot of players can't seem to handle any conflict and so immediately assume that there is something OOC involved rather than admit that characters may have reasons for responding and acting the way that they had.

What it boils down to, is assuming that someone is OOC bullying you makes you guilty of blurrying the IC/OOC lines--which is exactly what you're accusing someone else of doing and which is just as unfair.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]appended
2011-12-19 01:07 am UTC (link)
[info]darkwingduck, you seem to think that the examples that I am using are from my own experience and that is not true. Yes, I have faced drama in previous games but this post is not personal to me.

As I said earlier and will continue to say, this post was made for the entire community to become more aware of what Cyberbullying is and how it can and does effect roleplay as a community. It is not fandom specific nor is it website specific.

Earlier, you said this:
"I think it's unfair to compare RP comments (and speculating about them) with things like Facebook 'hate' communities, or horrible comments and insults circulating on someone's personal blog, youtube account or anything else,"

Why is it different if it is posted on someone's RP comments as opposed to someone's personal blog or youtube? Surely that person who is receiving hate comments on their blog or youtube has put a piece of themselves into their work, as do many roleplayers. To say anything else would be a great discredit to the creative process that many writers who roleplay go through when they publish something publicly for others to see, whether it be fan-fiction, RP or in a CDJ. It is no less personal to them than it is to someone posting a song on youtube that they wrote or a column in a blog.

I think to say that assuming makes you guilty of bullying is not fair - I never once said that every situation was the same and every person had the same experience, and I'm sorry if you read it that way. People are always going to perceive things differently and that's the beauty of an opinion. Opinions change as they become more full of information, which is all I intended to deliver with this post.

Thank you for taking the time to respond, I think you had very good points.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]darkwingduck
2011-12-19 01:30 am UTC (link)
I don't think it has anything to do with you or your experiences actually, I don't know you. I'm merely pointing out the danger of assumption and deciding your perception of another person's intentions is correct.

I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean by this: Why is it different if it is posted on someone's RP comments as opposed to someone's personal blog or youtube?. Because the difference, clearly, is that RP comments are characters speaking to each other whereas the opposite is, well, a person attacking another. These two things couldn't actually be more different. I think assuming that the person leaving the comments is doing so as a personal attack is, actually, doing that person a discredit--because you're jumping to the conclusion that they are uncreative and not capable of separating 'Real Life' from 'A Game'. I'm not talking about comments left on a CDJ, comments left on fan fiction or posts in RPvents. There is a difference between talking to a player and characters talking. There is a difference between one character attacking another and one player posting nasty comments about another, because there is a chance that these things are being done in character, no matter what you perceive.

And no, assuming along doesn't make you guilty of bullying. But assuming and doing something about it, like posting about the assumed bully on RPvents certainly does make you guilty of being a bully yourself, I think. I think there is a very delicate balance between actually being a victim and victimising someone else when you're acting on what you perceive and not what was intended.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]appended
2011-12-19 01:34 am UTC (link)
These are certainly all things to consider when looking at a situation like this and yes, I agree with you on quite a few things but this isn't about either of us.

As I said above, I've acted as a bully and the bullied and it's not a good feeling for either side. This post isn't for me, it's for the world. I'm not trying to have a debate over specifics - this was just a post for people to read and comment on with their opinions.

I'm not asking you to change your opinions, I'm not asking you to agree with me. You read it, you commented and you took the time to point out the things you agree/disagree with. Beyond this point, I'm not sure I can answer any of your statements because our opinions are different on a few things and [info]rp_tutorials isn't the place for us to try and hash out our differences.

Have a great night.

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