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little bird (oldmancoyote) wrote in rp_tutorials,
@ 2011-08-28 17:27:00

Entry tags:

etiquette

Question on PB etiquette.
This is possibly a sensitive subject, but we've been discussing this for a few months now and haven't really come up with a decisive opinion, so I was hoping it's okay to ask for people to weigh in here (if not, I'm terribly sorry).

How long do you figure it's respectful to wait after an actor, actress, musician, model, etc. passes away before it's acceptable to PB them? I know there are some people who still get upset at seeing Heath Ledger PBed in a game, so what would you recommend in an event like this? Similarly, what is the best course of action to take if someone you're currently using as a PB happens to pass away?

(Post a new comment)

	staceywacey 2011-08-28 10:34 pm UTC (link)
	I think this is one of those situations where someone will always be upset, so there isn't really a right answer. For me, it depends on the PB and whether or not I was an actual fan of that person. I've used Ryan Dunn as a PB before, and I probably will again, but I couldn't imagine using him right now. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	oldmancoyote 2011-08-28 10:36 pm UTC (link)
	It's funny you should mention Ryan because that was what actually started the conversation at large. We also have someone who has been using Amy Winehouse for a character for quite a while in another game. As a mod, I've told people to do what makes them most comfortable, but I'm not entirely certain if this holds with the common opinion. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	staceywacey 2011-08-28 10:45 pm UTC (link)
	Ryan =( If someone has been using a PB, I don't see a reason for them to stop because of the RL circumstances of that PB. But I completely agree with you- People should do what makes them feel comfortable. If they feel enough time has past and are all right with using the PB, they should. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	oldmancoyote 2011-08-28 10:49 pm UTC (link)
	It's still really hard to believe. :/ I think that's fair, yeah. It's just always hard when the player in question gets flack from other players who think they're being insensitive or something. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	staceywacey 2011-08-28 10:52 pm UTC (link)
	I'm still shocked over it. Things like that, imho, are on par with god-modding. It's essentially dictating what another person does with their character and should be avoided. There are characters and PBs that I don't like for various reasons, but it's not my place to tell anyone not to play them or not to use them. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	oldmancoyote 2011-08-28 10:53 pm UTC (link)
	That's actually a really good point. I never thought of phrasing it quite that way, but the next time it comes up at least now I know what to say to resolve the situation! (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	staceywacey 2011-08-28 10:55 pm UTC (link)
	Glad I could help! (Reply to this) (Parent)

	pemberley 2011-08-28 10:53 pm UTC (link)
	Like staceywacey said I think it comes down to what makes people comfortable. I know for me straight away probably not? But even now I could probably use Amy as a PB. I also think it depends on the situation/character ie if they played that character in a film and that's the char you're playing. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	oldmancoyote 2011-08-29 02:47 am UTC (link)
	Definitely, yeah. I'm actually really glad I asked this now because it seems we have come to a mostly common consensus on the topic and it'll be helpful in the future. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	pemberley 2011-08-29 05:48 am UTC (link)
	Exactly and it is good to know what other people think really. (Reply to this) (Parent)

bluebox
2011-08-28 11:39 pm UTC (link)

I don't think you should or have to wait. Your character is your character and the pb that best represents them shouldn't be impacted by the death of the actor no matter how recent. And if the actor of your pb dies then that's the way it is. That's life. People die.

Now if it's celeb stuff where you are playing the actual actor and he/she dies irl then...you're sort of out of luck there.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

oldmancoyote
2011-08-29 02:46 am UTC (link)

I completely agree with you, personally. The problem for a mod in my position is explaining to other players why a player should be allowed to use a PB who's died recently or continue using a PB without changing, since these are conversations that actually have come up a couple of times recently. But you're completely right.

There was a meta discussion in a RPF community a while back about that - whether or not it's disrespectful to continue on with a celeb line as an AU or do past plots after the person in question has died.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	bluebox 2011-08-29 02:51 am UTC (link)
	Mod problems...do not envy you...:\ (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	oldmancoyote 2011-08-29 02:58 am UTC (link)
	Fortunately all my players right now are really awesome, so we haven't had any problems in a long time! (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	bluebox 2011-08-29 03:19 am UTC (link)
	Well that's good :D it's rare to have a comm full of levelheaded people lol (Reply to this) (Parent)

elfflame
2011-08-29 02:23 am UTC (link)

For both, I say it's best to ask. If you're already using them, post to the game OOC journal and ask if everyone's okay with it. If it's a new character, I'd say ask the mods if that's okay, then once you're accepted, let everyone in the game know in the OOC to make sure they're all okay with it.

There's no great answer on this, because some definitely won't be, but...if you're polite about it, people will be more inclined to let you, particularly if you've already been using it.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	oldmancoyote 2011-08-29 02:49 am UTC (link)
	That's what we've been doing so far and it's mostly seemed to work out well enough but it seems to be a topic that's coming up more and more. Yeah, with something like this it's definitely best to try to be as respectful of the other people involved as possible. (Reply to this) (Parent)

fromamerica
2011-08-29 03:52 am UTC (link)

I was using Heath Ledger in a game when he passed away. I was ordered to immediately change my PB. I was not pleased, mods were not pleased that I was not pleased.

I dunno, I guess I don't see the big deal any way around it. I mean, we're using an actor/model/singer/famous person to play a part. Heath played a part in Batman, they didn't cancel the movie or even delay it because of his death. Maybe I'm an odd case study, but I'm not using them as a PB because I zomfg luv them 4evah!!! but because they physically fit the look of the character I'm playing. I know absolutely nothing at all about some of the PBs I use. I don't care if the "face" of a character is dead or alive, just like I don't feel "guilty" for watching a movie with a deceased actor in it, or listening to Nirvana albums. ...coincidentally, when they told me I had to change my Heath PB, I suggested Kurt Cobain instead and got a reply of that being fine. I headdesked, just a little.

That said, when I did try to app Heath to a game recently, I did ask before hand if the mods would mind to be polite. Got an A-okay. So...

(Reply to this) (Thread)

oldmancoyote
2011-08-29 04:09 am UTC (link)

I guess I can understand wanting to be sympathetic to people who are upset about it, but at the same time I think there's a line between being respectful and going overboard. I was in a game at the time too and I don't recall the character getting dropped or changed even if the player was a huge personal fan of his.

I guess I'm glad the general consensus has been that there's not necessarily any cause to immediately change things in these situations.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

fromamerica
2011-08-29 04:14 am UTC (link)

I can be sympathetic to a point, but being told "Oh you now have to change the entire appearance of your long-established character because this guy died" struck me the wrong way. I guess I could understand it more if it was an "unknown" small time person, or if movies were canceled or delayed, but we're doing the same thing the movies are. Using a face to play a role. Maybe we're blurring things a little more on the legality end of it all, but to me it's the same difference.

Maybe the death of someone makes a fan want to play the face more, out of tribute? Why should they be punished, especially if it's a game that's already open to/dealing with/welcoming darker topics.

Just my opinion. :D

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

oldmancoyote
2011-08-29 04:20 am UTC (link)

Exactly! When Ryan Dunn died, one of the girls I play with regularly who'd been playing a (minor, easily dropped) character with his face for years asked me, as a mod, if I wanted her to drop him or change the face and I told her absolutely not, that I could deal with his death better if she kept playing him exactly as she had. No one was bothered by it, in the end, and everyone has handled it very maturely. I don't mods give their players enough credit sometimes.

I come from a culture that treats death a lot different, I guess, so I'm never sure if it's the way my head works or it's a normal-ish opinion.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

fromamerica
2011-08-29 04:25 am UTC (link)

Yeah, trying to wipe his existence away isn't respect to my mind... it's a big dishonor. I'm obviously jaded, though. I'm a huge Vampire Hunter D fan, and while I was sad when D's voice actor died, I did not at all agree with the Japanese tradition of no sequels because the voice actor died, despite the fact that there were over a dozen novels not yet made into movies. I cheered when America made Bloodlust year slater and had it dubbed into Japanese after the fact.

I'm going with the MIB explanation here. A person is smart, people are dumb, panicky cattle. All it takes is that one person to throw a fit and everyone else follows, sadly.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	oldmancoyote 2011-08-29 04:38 am UTC (link)
	I think you have to move on through acceptance in a timely manner in order to be respectful because either way you cut it, if you tilt too far in one direction or the other, it gets iffy. Yeah, I've definitely had issues with that before. None as a mod - well, none that couldn't be handled by my expert stare of doom - but plenty as a player. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	fromamerica 2011-08-29 04:45 am UTC (link)
	Yeah, while I can see die hard fans getting their feathers in a ruffle over someone applying that face a day later, when it becomes a few months or a few years later, it's time to move on. My best friend got flack for applying River Phoenix a year or two ago. Really, people... if it's been a decade, you can unclench. Really. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	oldmancoyote 2011-08-29 04:47 am UTC (link)
	My only concern with someone playing River would be whether they could find enough good icons of him. Which is, obviously, a relatively minor concern. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	beehivedharlot 2011-08-29 08:28 am UTC (link)
	It unnerves me and I wouldn't do it but I wouldn't go so far as to tell someone else they can't (Reply to this) (Thread)

	oldmancoyote 2011-08-30 05:47 am UTC (link)
	I think that's fair. It's really a matter of player comfort in the end, I think so definitely. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	hammertech 2011-08-30 05:26 am UTC (link)
	Personally? I'd wait a year at least. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	oldmancoyote 2011-08-30 05:46 am UTC (link)
	What if someone's already using a PB and they pass on? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	hammertech 2011-08-30 05:46 am UTC (link)
	I'd personally ask the person to change the PB, but if no one is really bothered by it, I don't think it's a big issue. I mean it's already kinda creepy to use PBs to begin with. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	oldmancoyote 2011-08-30 05:48 am UTC (link)
	The issues of PBs is a whole different can of worms, but I can see the logic in the rest. (Reply to this) (Parent)