InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "wouldn't you like to know"

anyusa0030 (anyusa0030) wrote in qaf_coffeeclub,
@ 2010-04-08 19:30:00

i was reading a fic and it hit me how alike justin and lindsy are ,i mean they are both blond ,both alittle pale,come frome relatively similar background'upper middle class',the private prep school thing though we dont know for sure if lindsy went to private school in high school.anyways in thinking about this i started analizing the fact that brian slept with lindsy once if you believe season 5 or more if you believe season one ,despite brian no fucking your friends policy and the fact that he and lindsy were already friends when they slept together, and i know they were drunk but brian also has been drunk and high as a kite with micheal and never crossed that line.so why did he crossed the line with lindsy ,could it be that brian wondered if it could be more than just frienship with lindsy.i dont know about a gay man but i know that sometimes you can have such a good relationship with a friend that you wonder if the feelings are purely friendship and what could come out if you go futher,could it be that brian felt this and if it is so does that mean he questioned his sexuality.i know he told lindsy he never thought of them as a posiblke reality but brian usually say a lot of thiks he does no mean and i find it had to dismiss the fact that brian slept with a woman that he loves more than once because he was drunk.so what do you guys think?

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lilacwine10
2010-04-26 02:59 pm UTC (link)

This is a little old, but I will add my 2c'-worth anyway.

From episode 101 when this was first alluded to, I've always assumed that Brian and Lindsey just "fooled around" once or twice in college while drunk/high. It was just a little experimentation which meant next to nothing.

Brian is portrayed for 5 seasons as your archetypal gay hero/anti-hero/superhero. I'm positive the producers/writers never wanted to suggest that Brian and Lindsey were once romantically entangled. That would have compromised the character they were trying to portray.

In fact, for five seasons Brian shows *no* interest in the opposite sex unless you count maybe one sexy kiss with Lindsey and a little flirting with Daphne. He doesn't even seem to like effeminate men.

The other thing I have against your premis is that Justin is meant to be the first person, male or female, Brian has ever had any romantic interest in, and even that was against his personal moral code. Remember: "I believe in fu[k1ng, not love...).

All sorts of things in QAF are open to interpretation, but it's pretty clear that Brian is meant to be gay, through and through, and Justin is the only person he ever fell in love with.

I believe that Lindsey did have a thing for Brian once, but that she accepted long ago, that they could never be anything more than friends.

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anyusa0030
2010-04-26 09:33 pm UTC (link)

it suprised me the way this was understood,i never meant to suggest that brian was straight or bi not for a second.am glad you responded and it is never too late i posted this because i needed people opinions .as i have already said my thought process here might have been infuelced by luck of knowledge about what is common and uncommen in gay community.i think i was trying to aply straight person view.as a straight person the only way i would have sex with the same sex is if i had some questions.its already been pointed to me that in gay community this is very common and even those who are 100% sure and comfortable with who they are still at times have sex with the opposte sex,i did not know this and that changes significantly my view know.having said that i do not agree with you that justin is the first person brian ever had romantic interest in,we know very little about brian before the show that we cant really say this for sure.

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I don't agree
(Anonymous)
2010-04-26 09:59 pm UTC (link)

I think it's pretty clear that Justin is intended to be the first person Brian ever had romantic interest in. Remember this: Brian doesn't have very many friends, and if he had someone he was interested in prior to Justin, I'm almost one hundred percent sure the show would have touched on it. I don't agree with you about knowing "very little" about Brian before the show. We actually know quite a bit. We know his parents mistreated him, he practically lived at Michael's and, at least I assume, after going to Babylon for the first time at age 18, that this is where he started his rules of only sleeping around. If Brian had a first love before Justin, don't you think it would have been mentioned? There are countless references to Justin being the one Brian loves "more than he's ever loved anyone", and that he's the only one who's "gotten under the wire". Also, when Michael asked if he had ever been on a date, he said, "One. I ended up f***ing the waiter." I think that's a pretty good indication that he has never been romantically interested in anyone before. This is what makes the story so meaningful to me: Brian was 29 when he met Justin, and, up until then, had never felt something for someone else, making Justin all the more special as a character and a person in Brian's life. I think if Brian had a previous love interest, it would have definitely been discussed.

This is just my opinion. Feel free to disagree.

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Re: I don't agree

anyusa0030
2010-04-26 11:18 pm UTC (link)

"Brian doesn't have very many friends"brian has four friend this is not few, most people have 2-4 people they will call friend and the rest just aquitances, and maybe one best friend. brian actually have two best friends,so i think he is actually well rounded in friend factor. "and if he had someone he was interested in prior to Justin, I'm almost one hundred percent sure the show would have touched on it"well other than emmet and melenie the show is preaty quite when it comes to the characters romantic past,did ted ever have a boyfriend before blake?,was dr dave micheal first boyfriend?,yess emmet had acrush on some guy in high school that he meets again in season five but did he ever have a boyfriend in high school?,is mel lindsy first love ?.we know of the brian tearcher but did he have any experiences with any body else in high school before that prom night at babylon,was his experience with the teacher one time thing? we dont know answers to this questions we can only gues."he practically lived at Michael's"i dont see brian living at micheals he will rudher take his fathers beating than be depedent on someone am sure he was there a lot though.as to when he stated the one time policy as you say "I assume"we have no way of knowing and in the current discussion going on know in this forum someone made a very valid point that what brian say is not always necessarily what he does you have to take brian proclamationd with a grain of solt if he really have no repeats why did justin feel the need to add that to their rules.now notice am talking about interest whether or not brian acted on that interest is debate for another day,a good case can be made that brian was interested in justin in season one but had justin given up and moved on in the begining ,its likely brian would have just let him go,brian and justin happen despite of brian not because of brian.not going on a date does not prove anything the only date we know he went to with justin was to the baths.deb says he got under the wire not that he is the only one that ever did,we know that brian has broken some hearts the idea that several guys have fallen in love with him from just one fuck doest seam true .the most telling scene for me is where brian is trying for that job in ny in season one do you doubt that he would have went and left justin behind if he did get that job?because i think he would have gone,even though we know he already loved justin by then.last i love this couple, that is not to say i dont like pocking holes in the biggest love story ever told.

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Re: I don't agree
(Anonymous)
2010-04-26 11:27 pm UTC (link)

I see what you're saying here, but your points about Emmett or Ted having boyfriends before doesn't seem relevant to me because they are not the main character. Also, we know that Melanie was not Lindsay's first love; she mentions a girl named Rebecca Tucci who she dated in college, and there's also Brian. I honestly doubt that Brian had a boyfriend in high school, considering he probably wasn't out at that time, and not out to his parents, so I doubt he'd have a boyfriend. Also, he spent most of his time with Michael, so he probably had little time or interest in having a boyfriend. About the rules, Brian has made exceptions where he has had sex with the same person twice (such as Kip), that doesn't mean he's romantically interested in them. He probably thought they were especially good or maybe he didn't know he had done them before (except for Kip, since he mentions that Kip wasn't "very good" LOL). And please elaborate on the supposedly telling New York scene, since I don't know what that has to do with anything. Also the Brian breaking hearts thing you mentioned after your "getting under the wire" statement. Do you think Brian had a love interest before Justin? I think it's unlikely, but I'd like to know what you think.

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	Re: I don't agree (Anonymous) 2010-04-26 11:29 pm UTC (link)
	Also, keep in mind that this is my speculation. I'm not saying you're wrong or right. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: I don't agree

anyusa0030
2010-04-27 12:16 am UTC (link)

a said this above its worth repeating "now notice am talking about interest whether or not brian acted on that interest is debate for another day,"yess its unlikely brian had a boyfriend before justin,and acording to brian in season 3 he still claiming he never had aboyfriend .interest does not equal boyfriend.thanks for the lindsy remind i seam to forget a lot of things when it comes to the girls.you can not dismiss ted and emmet the show is about a group of friend not brian and justin,i think that the producers were sketchy on puposse they give us tid bites and we are to fill the blanks .the scene at the loft when justin says dont go,and brian says among many things that he will not look back and that justin should not either.deb tells jen that everyone want brian he fucks them break their hearts and they wise up,and she predict that she will break justin heart too,none of brian friends other than micheals is suprise that brian is sleeping with justin more than once and he even micheal is more jelouse than suprise so i dont think this was the only time brian was with someone for more than one fuck.brian telling kip he was not that good waqs just brian being an ass hole.last i know this is your oppinion that you are entitled to and one that i love earing so dont worry about me and dont if you ahve something more to say i would love to hear it ,i actually love it when people desagree with me they force me to consider different point of views and sometimes they even change my mind.

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Re: I don't agree
(Anonymous)
2010-04-27 12:22 am UTC (link)

I agree with you on the last point :). Friendly arguments are a favorite of mine. It's fun to see two different opinions on a situation. I have a friend who I argue with constantly, and I actually love it. It's pretty entertaining.

Don't worry, I know the show is NOT just about B/J, they're definitely the most interesting but what I was saying was not that Ted and Emmett aren't important, but that they're not AS important. Regarding Brian's rules, he doesn't seem to have a strict rule of not having sex with people more than once until season two. In season one, he doesn't usually do it but he's known to sleep with the same person more than once on occasion.

Also, I like hearing your opinion and others. It makes me think about my own, even though I rarely change my mind, it's interesting to know what other people think of certain situations.

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Re: I don't agree

lilacwine10
2010-04-27 04:05 pm UTC (link)

As I said before, lots of things in QAF are open to interpretation e.g. the ending for Brian and Justin is ambiguous. You can argue that they've broken up forever ("it's only time"), or that they never broke up (Brian kept the rings) or that they broke up but only temporarily (while Justin built his career in NYC).

And some things aren't open to interpretation such as : Brian was *never* romantically attached to another person before Justin. This is canon, as they say. You can't argue that he was, or might have been, when there is absolutely no evidence of it. Otherwise we might as well argue something as silly as : Brian was possibly a vampire in his spare time.

I won't be able to list all the evidence against the idea that Brian might once have had romantic feelings for someone else aside from Justin, but here is some of it:

- Brian says in 102: "I believe in fvck1ng, not love".
- There are at least two scenes where Brian tells Michael and others that men are not monogamous by nature. That they aren't meant to be with one other person for life. You can be friends with someone for life (Michael), but you can't be romantically attached to someone for life (or even briefly attached, in Brian's case).
- He does not "do repeats". He does occasionally, but that isn't because he has sentimental feelings towards those tricks. It's only as they were particularly good in bed. Brian doesn't even have the least interest in being friends with any of his tricks. No f-buddies for him.
- Brian despises "imitation heteosexuals", "Stepford fags", etc. Part of that is his distaste for "romantic love".
- Though he loved Justin in S2, he refused to make the slightest romantic gesture towards him, despite the fact that that is what Justin craved. Brian despises Ethan, partly as he took Justin away from him, but also as Ethan is the epitomy of romantic phoniness.
- He takes 4 and a half years to tell Justin he loves him. It took a bombing for him to do it.
- Brian denies his love for Justin to others and himself over and over again, but we can see that he loves Justin by the things he does for him, and the way he treats Justin sexually compared to *every* trick over the whole five years.

You might argue: "maybe he fell in love with someone and had a bad experience" - wrong. As I say, you may as well argue that Brian is a vampire in his spare time, has a loving relationship with his mother off screen, has developed a cure for the common cold, etc. We hear about Brian's sexual experiences while growing up, and how he found a second home with Debbie and Michael, but there are no vaguely romantic tales.

The bad experience Brian had was being brought up by parents who hated one another. He saw romantic love as fakery as a result.

As Lindsey says somewhere, Justin was the one person to put up with his bs. As Debbie says: Justin was the one "who got under the wire". Justin thawed out his cold, cold heart" (I can't remember the exact words from the comic). This is one of the major themes in QAF. I can't accept your point of view at all anyusa0030.

Normally I'm open to others' POVs, and as I say many things in QAF can be understood in more than one way, but this isn't really one of them !

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Re: I don't agree

anyusa0030
2010-04-27 07:37 pm UTC (link)

- Brian says in 102: "I believe in fvck1ng, not love".- Brian says in 102: "I believe in fvck1ng, not love".he did love justin so again what he says and what he does are not the same.
- There are at least two scenes where Brian tells Michael and others that men are not monogamous by nature.he was not monogamous with justin does that change the fact that he liked him?. That they aren't meant to be with one other person for life. You can be friends with someone for life (Michael), but you can't be romantically attached to someone for life (or even briefly attached, in Brian's case).he did get attached .
- He does not "do repeats". He does occasionally, but that isn't because he has sentimental feelings towards those tricks. It's only as they were particularly good in bed. Brian doesn't even have the least interest in being friends with any of his tricks. No f-buddies for him.justin is more a fuck buddy in the begining than enything else,they are not a couple,brian is not his boyfriend they have no commitment to each other yess brian likes him but they are friend who are having sex,not only does brian say they are not a couple but he treats him as such.
- Brian despises "imitation heteosexuals", "Stepford fags", etc. Part of that is his distaste for "romantic love".so?.
- Though he loved Justin in S2, he refused to make the slightest romantic gesture towards him, despite the fact that that is what Justin craved. Brian despises Ethan, partly as he took Justin away from him, but also as Ethan is the epitomy of romantic phoniness.my point exactly just because brian likes somebody does not mean he is going to date them ,be their boyfriend or even let them be part of his life.i never said brian had a boyfriend before justin read my last three responses have reaped this point.
- He takes 4 and a half years to tell Justin he loves him. It took a bombing for him to do it.here is more it took a bat to the head for brian to give an inch ,it took cancer for him to give more inch and even after everything they had been through for four years brian still choose to let justin go in season five and it took a bomb yess for brian in my opinion to give up the life he wants in order to give justin the life he wants.
- Brian denies his love for Justin to others and himself over and over again, but we can see that he loves Justin by the things he does for him, and the way he treats Justin sexually compared to *every* trick over the whole five years.

- give me your thought on this ,deb says to jen "they all want brian but the good news is no one can have him ,he fucks them ,breaks their hearts and they wise up "

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	Re: I don't agree (Anonymous) 2010-04-27 09:49 pm UTC (link)
	This doesn't really support your view that Brian could have possibly been romantically interested in. I don't really know where you're going with this argument, so I think we should just agree to disagree. I don't believe it's possible but you do. (Reply to this) (Parent)

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