InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL"

sherkahn (sherkahn) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-09-03 16:29:00

Entry tags:

char: batman/dick grayson, char: robin/red robin/tim drake

Preview for Red Robin #4
The DCUBlog has the preview Red Robin #4.

The on going quest for the holy Bat-Grail by Tim Drake continues. And Tim sizes up some new opponents.

You are used to going through Intergang squads with higher tech. At least you could drop something distracting and escape soldiers who do not know what you can do. Not to knock the troops in uniform, but Tim is underestimating himself against them.

The rest of the preview feels like the issue will be another set up, unless there is a real fight and conflict with Bat-Grayson with real consequences.

(Post a new comment)

	taggerung301 2009-09-03 11:49 pm UTC (link)
	yeah, it's probably just a nod to the military from DC of course, it is kinda nice that Tim doesn't automatically beat the shit out of the troops (Reply to this) (Thread)

	sinisterlink 2009-09-04 12:13 am UTC (link)
	I'm assuming from the thought boxes of Tim that he actually did steal whatever they are talking about, so seeing as Tim really is in the wrong here, I'd be pretty upset if he started beating up solders who are just trying to do their jobs. I do agree that it's probably a nice little nod to the military too, though. (Reply to this) (Parent)

zippthorn
2009-09-03 11:57 pm UTC (link)

Uh . . . he's not in costume (which ~~is probably~~BETTER DAMN BE armored), he admits he's not mentally in the game, he's INCHES from MULTIPLE MACHINE GUNS, it's BROAD DAYLIGHT, his skin tone and clothing would make it tricky if not impossible to blend into a crowd (maybe if he had tanned before arriving, I could buy it those blue eyes would get him second or even third looks) . . . yeah. Standing down is the smart thing, here.

(Reply to this)

bluejaybirdie
2009-09-04 12:12 am UTC (link)

...Miss Fox? Does Lucius have a daughter?

I like the nod to Tim's YJ alias Alvin Draper. Always nice to see that series acknowledged :)

You know what's funny to me? Tim actually looks rather small here, but Red Robin does not. It seems Tim Drake is still canonically built smaller...my guess is that he puts padding in the costume and a little extra height on the soles of his boots!

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	sinisterlink 2009-09-04 12:16 am UTC (link)
	You know, adding padding and whatnot in your costume would probably help with keeping your ID secret. Anyone ever got curious about who is behind the mask would probably disregard Tim just because he doesn't seem to be the right size. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	toasty_fresh 2009-09-04 12:41 am UTC (link)
	My theory is that Red Robin is actually a completely different person-- a 47-year-old Gothamite who, during a midlife crisis, found the costume in a dumpster and decided to spice up his life with a little crime-fighting. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	bariman1987 2009-09-04 05:56 am UTC (link)
	I thought that Lucius had a wife and a couple kids, but I could be wrong. Tim originally used the Alvin Draper ID when dealing with Stephanie Brown, long before Bruce told her Tim's real name. (Kinda funny that both Steph and Kon immediately knew that "Alvin Draper" wasn't his real name.) Presumably he has a complete set of IDs, passports, and papers for Alvin as well. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	runespoor7 2009-09-04 06:28 am UTC (link)
	A daughter and a son, but she's not old enough tobe the girl there. Maybe a niece? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	jaybee3 2009-09-04 03:59 pm UTC (link)
	No she's the Fox daughter. They rapidly aged her so she can be part of the book (although not by much, she's just a Wayne Enterprises intern). (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	sherkahn 2009-09-04 04:26 pm UTC (link)
	How old should she be? She looks 16? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	jaybee3 2009-09-04 05:09 pm UTC (link)
	Since she doesn't seem to have to go to school and was in Russia as part of a WayneTech executive team when her father called her to go get Tim (or something like that) I'm guessing she's 18? High school graduate but not yet a college student? Comic ages always confuse. Characters are usually as old as the writers need them to be. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	runespoor7 2009-09-05 05:47 pm UTC (link)
	I really hate reading about nepotism. "Oh, you have a daughter, and she wants/needs/whatever an internship? Why, of course WayneTech will get her something!" (Reply to this) (Parent)

	iesika 2009-09-05 06:05 pm UTC (link)
	But you know she's going to be Tim's new love interest. Because, you know, he obviously doesn't have enough yet. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	icon_uk 2009-09-04 12:14 am UTC (link)
	At least they seem to be calling him Tim DRAKE again, the Tim Wayne bit just didn't work. Tim could deal with a couple of soldiers no problem, but for a larger group, he'd probably want his costume with gadgets like his staff, smoke pellets and a grapnel launcher. (Reply to this) (Thread)

jaybee3
2009-09-04 03:41 am UTC (link)

The biggest problem I had with "Tim Wayne" aside from the fact that the old Tim would never drop his dad's name like that. He loved Jack Drake. But the bigger problem was that the "Tim Wayne" didn't roll off the tongue. It just doesn't sound right (neither would "Dick Wayne"). When most people name their babies they usually go with a name that works well with their surname.

And of Bruce's legally adoptive sons, the only one I could have seen taken the Wayne name was Jason - who really never had a father except Bruce. Yet he's still "Jason Todd".

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	(Anonymous) 2009-09-04 05:14 am UTC (link)
	The whole "Tim Wayne" thing screams of unresolved issues regarding Damian. Probably his way of mentally one upping Damian. As I understand it, since Talia and Bruce weren't married at the time of his birth, Damian is technically "Damian al Ghul". (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	runespoor7 2009-09-04 07:08 pm UTC (link)
	Unless Bruce recognized him, which he obviously couldn't have done before he knew of Damian's existence. When did Damian start being referred to as 'Damian Wayne', anyway? If it was after that, maybe strings were pulled to get his name changed. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	icon_uk 2009-09-04 07:35 am UTC (link)
	He had a father up until the year or so before he met Bruce, we've just never seen interactions with him. (Reply to this) (Parent)

iesika
2009-09-05 06:04 pm UTC (link)

I don't think it seems out of character at all, particularly considering how out-of-sorts he's been lately. Tim's relationship with his father was always really difficult, and I think Bruce was filling that role for him for a long time, even before his Dad died.

It's also been used before. I think we first saw it during the story-arc in Robin where he sets himself up for kidnapping bait.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	oath5 2009-09-04 12:47 am UTC (link)
	Maybe the adoption was semi-secret? Idk the writers must be really lapsing if that's the case. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	bluejaybirdie 2009-09-04 01:01 am UTC (link)
	I don't think it was semi-secret. IIRC, there was actually an issue of a magazine published in-universe about it. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	iesika 2009-09-05 06:00 pm UTC (link)
	And he was being referred to as Wayne almost from the start. He's been going back and forth. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	glockgal 2009-09-04 01:42 am UTC (link)
	ZEDDMORE. OMG if we see more of this bodyguard with his Winston Zeddmore Ghostbusters name reference (flailing), I may have to start picking this book up. Also, yay for at least that Tim Drake is drawn looking like...Tim Drake. Despite Red Robin looking like a complete toolbag. (Reply to this)

	lieut_kettch 2009-09-04 02:25 am UTC (link)
	Tim isn't underestimating them, but he definitely won't go all out to hurt troops that are just following orders. (Reply to this)

	jelly_ace 2009-09-04 02:37 am UTC (link)
	Huh? A foundation providing body armor to U.S. troops? Waht? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	zippthorn 2009-09-04 04:10 am UTC (link)
	Obvious fiction, though in at least one comic, the Wayne Foundation also donated bulletproof vests to the Blumlautdhaven police back when Nightwing worked there. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

jelly_ace
2009-09-04 04:25 am UTC (link)

Donating to the Bludhaven PD is kinda logical in some way, since it only involves the local authorities and it involves the safety of citizens, after all. But donating armor to troops in a war...isn't that kinda political for a foundation??? And when did the US run out of military funding, for something as basic as armor???

And I always assumed Bruce Wayne--and hence Wayne Enterprises--to be having a kind of a Democratic bent, and be opposed to the whole Iraq War.

I know, I know. Too much nitpicking for one or two small statements. But are these writers living under a rock or something? Common sense, please!

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

zippthorn
2009-09-04 04:50 am UTC (link)

Bruce and politics are kind of . . . . well, let's put it this way. Batman is opposed to crime, and corruption is a crime.

He doesn't want ANYONE to die unneeded, but the war's happened and doing nothing would be stupid. Donating armor to Iraqis would probably get his company boycotted because not just Bill O'Reilly but also Jack Ryder (although he probably tried to get something to the Iraqi peacekeepers), so his foundation just donates to the troops, huge PR boost, more profits, more embezzlement to equip his secret war on crime . . . .

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

jelly_ace
2009-09-04 05:23 am UTC (link)

That is a major simplification of things. For one, why is he supplying armor, considering the US government has funds allocated for that sort of thing? To the tune of a trillion dollars. Don't tell me the US government is gonna skimp on something as basic as its troops' armor. Two, you just don't "donate" armor or funding of some such. It's gotta pass through the politicians, the media, and the military--not to mention the IRS. Correct me if I'm wrong, but foundations aren't supposed to be not involved in politics and military stuff? That would be a violation of their nonprofit status. Or something. And three, the foundation can do other things besides providing armor to US troops that can boost their PR? Um, hello, starving, injured, and abuse women and children within their peripheral vision much? And with the current anti-war environment in the US, I wouldn't be surprised if Wayne Enterprises' reputation go down a notch.

So yeah, the writers' way of getting Tim out of a jam is kinda stupid.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

masterofmidgets
2009-09-04 06:06 am UTC (link)

1. The US military budget was $515 billion dollars in 2009, which represented an increase from the previous year (although there is/was supplemental funding for the war in Iraq). Of that, $104 billion is allocated for procurement. Armoring our soldiers adequately in Iraq was...less of a priority than you might think.

2. Religious organizations are not allowed to participate in politics, or they can lose their tax exempt status. As far as I know, many non-profits can and do participate in lobbying and other activities that could be termed political (for example I donate money to Planned Parenthood, which I should hope lobbies for pro-choice legislation). I think it's questionable whether donating armor to troops would count as political, but the Wayne Foundation probably isn't going to get in trouble for doing it.

3. As the charitable arm of one of the largest/most profitable corporations in the DCU, the Wayne Foundation can probably afford to donate to many causes. Just from Wikipedia, Bruce uses it to fund free clinics, soup kitchens, medical and scientific awards, artists' grants, and orphanages. It's not an all or nothing game, and protecting soldiers in combat hardly makes him a heartless bastard.

All in all, I don't think the set-up is that stupid. A little far-fetched, maybe, but within the bounds of reasonable possibility.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	sistermagpie 2009-09-04 02:54 pm UTC (link)
	I agree. (Lack of body armor specifically was a public issue.) It actually also makes a nice little nod to the idea that Bruce, as Batman, would have knowledge of body armor and there's no reason he wouldn't want soldiers in combat protected with it. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	thandrak 2009-09-04 04:27 am UTC (link)
	You don't want to know. But yeah. Private individuals have had to be donating body armor to US troops, because the stuff the Government was issuing wasn't all that good. That passes the fact check. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	jelly_ace 2009-09-04 05:27 am UTC (link)
	Private individuals have had to be donating body armor to US troops, because the stuff the Government was issuing wasn't all that good. So what happened to all that military research and all that funding? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

masterofmidgets
2009-09-04 05:50 am UTC (link)

Long version: The armor the US soldiers had wasn't designed for Iraq and wasn't strong enough for the weapons the soldiers were facing, but because they relied on a very small number of manufacturers who weren't capable of producing quickly enough to meet demand, the government had a hard time distributing the improved, stronger armor to the troops in a timely fashion. Other organizations and even (where I live at least) solders' families took up the slack to try to get them equipment that wouldn't get them killed.

Short version: the previous administration was as inept at running a war as they were at justifying one.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

thandrak
2009-09-04 11:09 am UTC (link)

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fsb/fsb_archive/2004/04/01/366633/index.htm
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x847450
http://www.armor4troops.org/
http://lawnorder.blogspot.com/2006/03/body-armor-for-troops-ask-david-brooks.html

I told you, you _really_ don't want to know. It'll just make you sad. Things are a little better now.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	icon_uk 2009-09-04 07:36 am UTC (link)
	Presumably they mean that WayneTech (a component of the Wayne Foudnation) developed the suits. They'd have the WayneTch logo on them somewhere, so the soldiers would probably know who provided the suits. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

zippthorn
2009-09-04 06:04 pm UTC (link)

Point of order: The Wayne Foundation(s)--I think there are actually 2 of them, but I could be mistaken--are not the same as Wayne, Inc. Wayne, Inc is the incorporated conglomerate that makes everything from toothpicks to antibiotics to industrial sealant to . . . well, anything, and owns all sorts of businesses, too. The Wayne Foundation(s) is/are the charitable wing of the Wayne financial empire, providing monies and supplies to free clinics, soup kitchens, secondary education centers, colleges (in the forms of scholarship programs and grant monies), etc. The Wayne Foundation is non-profit. Wayne, Inc. is for-profit.

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	runespoor7 2009-09-04 06:27 am UTC (link)
	I'm in love with the art. Also, the more this goes on, the more I'm convinced I'll end up picking Red Robin up. Tim is being Tim-esque and wrong, and the writer knows it. It's bound to be interesting. I'm waiting for the first arc to come out in trade, though, since I already let the first three issues of RR pass. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	How to write a Tim Drake Cocktail lacunatattoo 2009-09-04 04:29 pm UTC (link)
	This is the recipe of how to write Tim: 2 parts heroic 2 parts self-aware 2 parts resilient 1 part crippling self-doubt 1 part sarcastic/fecetious humor throw in a dash of guilt. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	In other words, Yost nailed it. lacunatattoo 2009-09-04 04:29 pm UTC (link)
	And Nicieza. And of course, Dixon. Bill Willingham just put shit in a sippy cup. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	sistermagpie 2009-09-04 02:57 pm UTC (link)
	Ah, "Tim Drake" is music to my ears. I like how this comic keeps him tied to his family and also out on his own, and I like the juggling of identities, with how being Bruce Wayne's son makes him a important person in its own way. (Reply to this) (Thread)

psychop_rex
2009-09-05 08:06 am UTC (link)

Hey, Bruce Wayne's a big shot in the DCU. There was one issue of JLA a few years ago where it was decided that everyone should reveal their secret identities to each other, to help foster trust between team members. So everyone unmasked, and there were a few 'oh, hey, I've heard of you' moments, like when Supes revealed that he was really a Pulitzer-winning journalist. Then came Bruce's turn, he pulled up the cowl - and everybody's jaws dropped. It was like he'd just revealed himself as Tom Cruise or somebody - Plastic Man damn near had a fangasm right on the spot.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Noirsensei wants to see... (Anonymous) 2009-09-05 11:57 am UTC (link)
	Link plox? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Re: Noirsensei wants to see... psychop_rex 2009-09-05 11:21 pm UTC (link)
	Sorry, I don't have the comic - I read it years ago. If it helps, though, it's in the issue immediately preceding the storyline where the JLAers get their secret identities and superhero personas physically separated into different bodies. They're both in the same TPB. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	sistermagpie 2009-09-05 03:33 pm UTC (link)
	OMG that sounds awesome!!! I can't get over how awesome that is! (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	psychop_rex 2009-09-05 11:24 pm UTC (link)
	It IS a pretty cool sequence. Someone should post it. (Reply to this) (Parent)

iesika
2009-09-05 05:54 pm UTC (link)

Oh, Timmmy, you so crazy. And paranoid. "Soldiers! The JLA must have sent them! The JLA is after me!" Not to mention the way he's slipping up and forgetting his training.

This whole episode, from the moment in Red Robin #1 when he's just sitting on the floor staring at nothing, after breaking all those Priceless Antiques, really really reads as a dissociative fugue to me.

Tim's always been a little...off, at least the way I read him, all the way back to his origin. And he's run away from home, what four times now? After DRAMA with Ariana, then when Steph was in labor, then the Uncle Eddie incident, and now this. Am I missing any? He ran away from Steph the moment he realized she knew his identity, too. I think his default setting for Difficult Emotions is "Run Like Hell."

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Tim's default

dahoughtonuk
2009-09-05 09:53 pm UTC (link)

Completely agree. Both times Tim had a choice between truly thinking about which girl he liked, he ran from the decison so ended up taking the easier path. Both times he had to choose between Steph and the other girl, he chose Steph, more by running from the decison than facing it. And this also explains why he was busy obsessing trying to clone Connor not Steph (Unless Steph had a no cloning clause in her will)

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	(Anonymous) 2009-09-08 11:04 pm UTC (link)
	Okay, when I saw the name Zeddmore my first though was what the bloody hell Ghostbusters....-facepalms- I demand a crossover now. (Reply to this)