Daily Scans - One more page from Gotham City Sirens
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07:54 am [kamino_neko]
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One more page from Gotham City Sirens My reasons for posting this page are twofold....firstly, to illustrate a point I made in the last Gotham City Sirens post about the way the artist draws faces - specifically, the blandness of the female faces, and relative cartooniness of the male faces.
Secondly...I'm a Riddler fan, who's been rather....distressed by his recent jobbing. For everyone. Former victims, supposed friends...it's one thing to have the Bat get one over on him, but Eddie's played the chump for everyone pretty constantly for a couple years, and this...bugs me. Eddie finally manages to get some back in GCS. Sort of.
OK, to set up - a newbie Z-lister named Boneblaster is trying to make a name for himself by taking out Catwoman. After tracking her - to Riddler's place, specifically - he's delighted to find he's found not only her, but Poison Ivy, Harley Quinn, and the Riddler - what better way to make a name by taking out 4 big names like them? He's forgotten, of course, that the reason they're big names is they're not exactly easy to take down - except, in this case, for Eddie, who Ivy has pretty much zombified at this point. So, just before Selina puts Boneblaster down, a stray elbow brings Eddie around. Yeah...how sad is it that the last few years have made Eddie such a chump that kicking the crap out of an already subdued no-name putz like Boneblaster in the ruins of his home is an improvement? It's cathartic, if nothing else. And, as to the faces...look at Eddie and Boneblaster - taken on their own, they're not bad - pretty good even - I love the look on Eddie's face just before he lays into Boneblaster. But taken in the context of the rest of the art, they're oddly cartoonish, and that pulls me out of the story. And contrast them to the girls' faces, and...well, I'll take inappropriately cartoonish over indistinguishable and bland. I can't really add anything I haven't already said, or you can't see for yourself, so I'll leave it at that. And, randomly, the biggest proof to me that Boneblaster's a loser, to my mind? He doesn't know how to paint his face up like a skull, doing an inverted V over top of his nose, instead of doing it all black, making him look more like a Star Trek alien's skull than a human skull.
Tags: char: catwoman/selina kyle, char: harley quinn/harleen quinzel, char: poison ivy/pamela isley, char: riddler/edward nigma, creator: paul dini, title: gotham city sirens
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Kids today, I tell ya. Don't want to pay their dues, start with knocking over a convenience store and working their way up. Taking on your own kind, is that the way to get cred with the others? I guess being beat up by Catwoman is better than by the Spoiler.
"Oh my goodness, yes"? Eddie, you been hanging around with Jervis too much, c'mon. How about "What's black and blue and red all over?" :)
To be fair to Eddie, he's just woken from several weeks of Ivy-induced zombification, so he can't really be expected to be firing on all cylinders, just yet.
Eddie doesn't look like David Tenant anymore. This makes me sad.
![[User Picture]](http://www.insanejournal.com/userpic/8591858/412362) | | From: | stig |
| Date: | June 26th, 2009 09:20 am (UTC) |
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Dini has really ruined this character. Even when he got a boost of competence and style in "Gotham Underground", under Detective he's seen as an incompetent money-grabbing loser...and now as an idiot who simply beats people with a stick like any thug. All the charm is gone; I long for the days when the Riddler was one of the few Gotham criminals who seemed merely fun-loving and eccentric, as in that Neil Gaiman story written all those years ago.
Gotham Underground is EXACTLY what I'm talking about with the jobbing. The only reason he's still alive right now is the Penguin took pity on him.
![[User Picture]](http://www.insanejournal.com/userpic/8591858/412362) | | From: | stig |
| Date: | June 26th, 2009 10:10 am (UTC) |
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Yeah, but then at least in that series he was a capable Detective. Thusfar, under Dini he hasn't shown himself intelligent enough to figure out one crime, and has spent most of his time being jobbed either by Batman or by simple civilians. Dini could have made him into a respectable rival for Batman; instead, he turned him into a laughable non-villain, who does little more in the series than annoy everyone around him; essentially, Batman's Geraldo Rivera.
Making Riddler into a respectable rival would have involved two things; one, actually respecting the character by making him a legitmately brillaint decipher of puzzles and quizes, and two, actually make him a rival to Batman. Not some celebrity PI who not once stood a chance in outsmarting Batman.
GU was, next to Detective, actually better for the character because it showed that he and Penguin - who also suffers under Dini, becoming a slightly uglier version of Max Bialystock - share a bond of friendship and respect, like the Flash Rogues, even if it is slight. Similarly, in TRINITY he was shown to at least have the intelligence to go into hiding in order to prove his innocence from crimes perpetrated by Enigma. Had Dini been writing, the story would have ended with him being dragged into jail, comically protesting his innocence.
I have to admit, I'm falling out of love with Dini, and I think you just hit one of the many reasons why. I still think he's a 'good' writer who produces some exceptional character moments, but he no longer has my unquestioning trust as a writer...which is probably a good thing (what writer really should?).
![[User Picture]](http://www.insanejournal.com/userpic/8591858/412362) | | From: | stig |
| Date: | June 26th, 2009 10:26 am (UTC) |
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Indeed. The only writer I can really trust with anything at this moment is Warren Ellis, as I feel that - like me - he isn't hugely fussed and obsessive about characters and continuity because his mainstream work is basically funding for his independent work, which means that he doesn't worry about getting everything right, which often results (conversely) in him getting most of everything extremely right.
Dini's DCU work shares an aspect with Loeb's Ultimate work - they're both so stuck on a certain interpretation of the characters they use that they can't ever let that character develop from it. With Loeb, you get characters like Ultimate Pyro suddenly turning into a supervillain or Ultimate Wasp suddenly turning White Caucasian rather than Asian-American; with Dini, you get Riddler as comically incompetent and Catwoman as primarily Batman's ex.
I wouldn't say he writes Selina as primarily Bruce's ex. More primarily Bruce's OTP - there's no sense of "over"ness to it, they're just not together at the moment. It's still a limited palette that precludes a lot of her character from seeing use, but it's a clear step above defining her by her past.
Ivy is due for some serious comeuppance. If not from Eddie then someone. She's a monster, but she seems to get away with it because people find her relationship with Harley endearing. I haven't forgotten Harvest, and until he's been explicitly retconned out of existence or otherwise explained (has he been?) no one else should either.
I also dislike ineffectual Eddie. Dini seems to waffle back and forth when it comes to the Riddler's competence. He needs something decisive, even Dini's positive work with the character has yet to really overshadow him getting smacked around by Hush and Ivy.
![[User Picture]](http://www.insanejournal.com/userpic/8591858/412362) | | From: | stig |
| Date: | June 26th, 2009 10:12 am (UTC) |
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Funny, isn't it? Everyone pretends to have forgotten about the Ivy-Tentacle-Hentai issue of Detective, and Dini's writing is willing ignoring it and its effects...and then this first issue has her using plants as restraining tentacles on Zatanna.
Ivy-Tentacle-Hentai issue of Detective
Eh?
![[User Picture]](http://www.insanejournal.com/userpic/8591858/412362) | | From: | stig |
| Date: | June 29th, 2009 09:18 am (UTC) |
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![[User Picture]](http://www.insanejournal.com/userpic/8591858/412362) | | From: | stig |
| Date: | June 29th, 2009 05:47 pm (UTC) |
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And now he does it to his wife by proxy. Charming.
I haven't forgotten Harvest, and until he's been explicitly retconned out of existence or otherwise explained (has he been?) no one else should either.
Personally, it's not so much that I have forgotten Harvest. I just refuse to acknowledge it as canon. I think it's blatant character derailment of Ivy, so as far as I'm concerned, it never happened.
| From: | (Anonymous) |
| Date: | June 26th, 2009 01:22 pm (UTC) |
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It's so frustrating that Ivy has yet to receive her comeuppance. I haven't forgotten the "Low" arc, and apparently no one else has, either. And the prequel to that traumatizing experience in HUSH RETURNS still has unresolved potential.
Eddie's a charming, intellectual fellow; but he can also be extremely wrathful. Would it make sense for him, as an egotist, to not directly address the problem of revenge against Ivy and Hush?
Also, I refuse to believe he doesn't recall those events. Coma or no coma, Eddie's always been crafty at misleading, and isn't it (currently at least) better for him to pretend he doesn't recall? Riddler's a genius, and he's clever enough to make a situation work for him. However, that being said, I'd hate to never see some resolution regarding those three.
Yeah...how sad is it that the last few years have made Eddie such a chump that kicking the crap out of an already subdued no-name putz like Boneblaster in the ruins of his home is an improvement? It's cathartic, if nothing else.
I thought Riddler was really cool in the Tut arch of Batman Confidential.
I ought to look that up... I gave up on Confidential after the second arc...I wasn't even aware it was still ongoing until just now. Which issues was that arc?
Batman Confidential 26-28.
Batman Confidential is very hit-and-miss. Some arches are very good (I'm especially fond of "The Cat And The Bad", which has Batgirl and Catwoman meet for the first time), whereas some are downright terrible.
Thank you for the issue numbers.
| From: | (Anonymous) |
| Date: | June 26th, 2009 01:12 pm (UTC) |
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I agree; the Confidential arc explored Riddler as a brilliant, witty person with an eccentric sense of humor. There's so much to be said about the "partnership" angle between him and Batman and this brings a lot of elements to light that resonate with logic, given the intellectual prowess of the two.
It was pretty much delightful in every regard.
Otoh, Batman was written like an idiot.
Yeah, I agree about the art and poor Eddie. I actually really like him as reformed and working as a Detective. Not a bad guy, but still a pain in the ass for Batman.
I would imagine that between Ivy and beating (and possibly killing?) this guy, he might get in trouble and be investigated. I really hope they don't turn him back into a locked-up-in-Arkham villain again. I think he's more interesting at this point as someone who's recovered.
I actually really like him as reformed and working as a Detective. Not a bad guy, but still a pain in the ass for Batman.
Agreed. And I was tiiiicked when he was revealed as a cheater on that front.
I would imagine that between Ivy and beating (and possibly killing?) this guy, he might get in trouble and be investigated.
Even written at his worst, Eddie's too bright to ice the punk in his own home. (Besides, it's more...poetic to 'blast' a few of his bones and let him spend some time recovering.) And given the circumstances - attacked in how own home - short of killing the dude, unless he draws a judge with a grudge against him (granted, not impossible), I can't really see him getting worse than a slap on the wrist for getting excessive. Plus with the money he got from Wayne, he can probably afford a good lawyer.
But the way he's getting punked, lately, I wouldn't lay money on that logic holding. *sigh*
Plus with the money he got from Wayne, he can probably afford a good lawyer.
What money did he get from Wayne??
In other news, I really want to see reformed!Riddler interact with Spoiler, since her father worked with him before he reformed and she died went to Africa. And IIRC there was a story where she confronted Riddler after her dad died (mind you, I'm told he's not dead anymore) and asked about him.
| From: | (Anonymous) |
| Date: | June 26th, 2009 03:50 pm (UTC) |
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In Detective Comics 837 he took a case for Bruce Wayne. Most of the issue was centered on Harley Quinn, but she and Riddler had some interesting interaction.
'Tec 837, as mentioned. Also, probably not coincidentally, the last time Eddie wasn't a complete chump. The actual amount paid is never mentioned, but Bruce hired him, and there were several points that made it clear he was paying a huge amount.
First, Bruce, when hiring Eddie, says 'I'm in need of your service, and your silence. I'll pay well for both.' As Eddie charges 25 grand for a routine following of a spouse (as mentioned a couple panels prior), clearly this would lead to his negotiating for something closer to 6 figures.
Second, he was able to buy the house that Boneblaster just wrecked up on him. Which could have left him down to just the (still pretty good) cash from his regular detective work, except for...
The third point: When Bruce and Tim are discussing the case afterward, Bruce says that, on top of testing Eddie's skills as a detective (passed the test, contrary to what later issues would suggest), he was making sure Eddie was living comfortably enough to reduce the chances of his going back to crime. Also...
Fourth, Bruce believed that the fee he was paying him was enough that it took away the temptation of absconding with and selling the rather potent super-steroid he was hiring him to retrieve. Which would have to be pretty big bucks.
| From: | (Anonymous) |
| Date: | June 26th, 2009 03:57 pm (UTC) |
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LIKEWISE with the being ticked off about that little "detective chatroom" cop out in 845 (though I suppose Batman was employing the same technique, which belittles his deductive abilities as well). Especially considering how Riddler essentially solved the Atkins homicide in 828 all on his lonesome, with Batman hot on his heels. It was rather disconcerting of Dini to contradict himself in such a manner.
However, I find that other writers are giving Riddler credit for his analytical and deductive brilliance; there was a snippet in Outsiders (the issue number escapes me), and Cass believed Eddie to be a suitable replacement for Batman's detective aspect. Trinity 12 was already mentioned here, and even in Gotham Underground Eddie was able to detect Nightwing's identity under his Matches Malone-wannabe disguise right off the bat.
It's disappointing, though, that Dini of all people seems to be dropping the ball. Why build Riddler up to be an intellectual equal to Batman, only to kick him around later? I absolutely love the detective angle Eddie has going for him, but I'd like to see it used successfully more.
![[User Picture]](http://www.insanejournal.com/userpic/8591858/412362) | | From: | stig |
| Date: | June 26th, 2009 06:25 pm (UTC) |
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This. If and when Rucka and Williams leave Detective, I would read the hell out of an arc or two with a competent Riddler on a thrilling case, maybe involving Spoiler. Fabian Niecza would be a good choice for writer, although Neil Gaiman would also appear to have a fondness for him.
Yeah, the art is horrible. I could complain about it for ages, honestly.
![[User Picture]](http://www.insanejournal.com/userpic/9019515/377059) | | From: | zegim |
| Date: | June 26th, 2009 04:57 pm (UTC) |
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The art was so faptastic (faptacular?) that I hadn't time to notice how much of a chump The Riddler was here.
Also Zatanna trying to use long, long, loooooooong spells when tied by Poison Ivy just so the jobbing would make a fickle of sense.
Agh.
![[User Picture]](http://www.insanejournal.com/userpic/8591858/412362) | | From: | stig |
| Date: | June 26th, 2009 06:21 pm (UTC) |
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I often wonder if Dini's wife ever gets to find out the stories he writes about character who is for all intents and purposes his Mary-sue of her. I mean, if she were into bondage and humiliation it would be creepy but understandable...
Wow, so glad I didn't read this. Ugh, just ugh.
This is rather disappointing. I expected much more from the Riddler and from Dini as a writer. The Riddler is supposed to be a cypher in himself - you're not supposed to know how he will act, since even his actions must be riddles in themselves. And yes, he should be asking riddles.
| From: | (Anonymous) |
| Date: | September 22nd, 2009 04:52 am (UTC) |
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He's been `cured' of that compulsion since being hit on the head by shining knight. |
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