InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "It was a wardrobe malfuction!!"

thanekos (thanekos) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-10-12 21:33:00

Current music:	Battle 3- Claado Shou
Entry tags:	char: batman/bruce wayne, char: joker, creator: kia asamiya, title: star wars

The Men Who Would Be Gotham's Rogues (also, a little Darth Revan)
so, Kia Asamiya.

Guy drew/wrote a lot of stuff I mean to get around to.

one of those works, in particular?

Batman: Child of Dreams, published in Kodonsha's Monthly Magazine Z in about ten installments, I think; at any rate, since DC (obviously) commissioned it, we got a hardcover edition two years later, translated by Max Allan Collins.

A DNA-altering drug, one that transforms its users into genetic duplicates.

What draws Batman into the story is seeing that drug used to create genetic duplicates of several of his villains out of... well, you'll see.

So, here's the first duplicate: Harvey " Two-Face " Dent.

We join him in the middle of a monologue: " [The coin] decides whether to acquit or convict-- "

meet Yuko Yagi, the abovementioned reporter, sent to America so that... they can do a news report on the Batman.

as you will, foreign news, as you will.

however, they've decided that the best way to catch the Bat is to be at ground zero of the kind of thing the Bat'd be involved in- like Harvey taking hostages for no apparent reasons, despite apparently being safe and sound in an Arkham straitjacket.

Unfortunately, that is not the smartest idea ever, as Doppelharvey's just flipped a coin:

Not-Harv's pleased as punch to see these guys:

somebody's really in love with the inherent duality of man, isn't he?

Yuko tries reasoning with False-Face over here:

who else, but..?

ZA BATMAN!

who wonders why " Harvey " is doing this thing; it seems so strange for him, after all, to up and randomly take innocent men and woman hostage.

Batman drops Big Bad !Harv's gun, but " I'm TWO-FACE -- I've got TWO of everything -- "

Lie-Face and the Bat have a pretty neat battle, ending rather unexpectedly:

Batman hies Cloneface off to Arkham, before brusquely brushing off Yagi and co.

So they try to seek an audience through Jimmy Gordon, who's not gonna help 'em at all:

when suddenly, the morgue calls:

I don't think we need Senator Vreenak to tell us that that Two-Face WAS A FAAAAKE

so Yuko and co retreat and regroup. She takes the long way back to the hotel, only to be accosted by thugs, and saved by...

heh.

the two hit it off well, and:

and so Yuko and co have an extra day to try and salvage their news story.

not that there's a lack of Bat-action going down, as Batman stops another doppelganger, but not before he's set off some bombs in Gotham:

no, it's not.

and another:

but it's only in installment three that the best fake of all shows up, interrupting Bruce and Yuko's dinner date:

oh, and he's gonna advance the plot:

Batman, however, crashes the party:

and the false Joker bows out, covering his escape with a bomb:

amusingly, real Joker accepts no substitutes, as Batman discovers while questioning him in Arkham (amusingly, Joker compares himself to Hannibal Lecter earlier in this scene, equating Bats to Clarice... which I think makes Hugo Strange Francis Dolarhyde):

anyhow, the second Joker in the deck kidnaps Yuko and lures the Bat to a boat on the seafront:

rather less sane than the others, isn't he?

oh, very much less!

but degeneration kicks in, as it has for the others:

acknowledgement. lawl.

who is this mysterious benefactor? why is he transforming sadsacks into Gotham rogues, and what does he have planned for the Bat? Why am I writing solicit text?

Find out by tracking down the rest of Child of Dreams- it's worth one read, at the least. It's good stuff, if not great.

there's three more doppelgangers down the pike, two Batmen and a Catwoman; there's a brilliant powerful man with a small agenda; and there's death by lots of drugs.

bonus: Darth Revan always enjoyed the obscuring look...

Jedi Master Ed Asner is very gruff.

this stuff's set before KOTOR, and it's basically what happens when proactive Jedi misread prophecies and mediocre Padawans have to defend themselves from the wrath of said Jedi.

there's a couple of one-who-would-be-Revan cameos; amusingly, the future Malak's also a minor character in the whole debacle, even helping our hero escape some wacky Mandalorians. Fun times...

(Post a new comment)

	kamino_neko 2009-10-13 03:43 am UTC (link)
	Two-face is totally the wrong villain to be using in a manga that's going to be flopped in its English translation. On the other hand, I'll have to track this down, and try to ignore the fact that Harv's backwards. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	darkblade 2009-10-13 03:45 am UTC (link)
	Then again it's wrong to flop a manga to begin with. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	kamino_neko 2009-10-13 03:55 am UTC (link)
	I agree, but didn't want to get into THAT fight again. (There are people who take that suggestion as 'the worst kind of fanboy whining'.) But Harv is a really good example to point out what the problem IS. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	darkblade 2009-10-13 03:58 am UTC (link)
	How is that fanboy whining? You leave it the way it was drawn. It's the way the artist wanted you to see it and it saves time and money. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	kamino_neko 2009-10-13 04:05 am UTC (link)
	Yeah. His argument is that it should be positioned the way that the readers are used to, and that it doesn't actually change anything to flip it. All evidence to the contrary. And, therefor, only a weeaboo would want it the way it was originally, and that's only because the right-to-left version is Japanese. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	thandrak 2009-10-13 04:35 am UTC (link)
	... spoken like someone who's never read Gunsmith Cats in the flopped version. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	kamino_neko 2009-10-13 04:42 am UTC (link)
	I don't think he's read much manga at ALL. (Reply to this) (Parent)

psychop_rex
2009-10-13 08:49 am UTC (link)

With all due respect, I disagree. I can certainly understand why you'd think so, but speaking as a westerner, reading manga in its original format gives me splitting headaches - it's just too hard a transition to make when you've been raised on left-to-right. Now, I am far from a manga diehard - I read them very rarely - but I do own several flipped manga, and I can't say I've ever noticed any particularly egregious hiccups in the flow of the story that it caused.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

kamino_neko
2009-10-13 11:45 am UTC (link)

Look at this one for an obvious example of how things are significantly altered.

Two-face's ruined side is the WRONG side. This will happen with any manga based on, or the basis of, an anime, a western comic, or a work of literature with detailed descriptions, if it happens to involve designs that are asymmetrical. Actually, it'll happen with any design that's asymmetrical, but it'll only be noticeable to people without access to the original with the above other versions.

Now being off-model could be considered a minor issue (although, it can carry information which is altered by the flop*), and won't be noticed by someone who's not familiar with the other versions/original manga.

But it points out the obvious problem - what's on the right in the original art is on the left, what's on the left is on the right.

Which has serious implications:

Things that shouldn't have to be redrawn WILL - clocks, or anything else with numbers; money; signage, badges, clothing, etc that has English (or, if the translators are serious, any other writing), real (or significantly designed) asymmetrical logos, etc, on it. (Notice how many of these examples are in the above excerpt - a coin, a police badge with writing, a number, a recognizable asymmetrical insignia (Riddler's ?s).)

There will be serious departures from reality, without significant redrawing (to the point of removing most of the original art) - almost everybody will be left-handed (except for those who were left-handed in the original); Americans will drive on the left, Japanese on the right; real geography and architecture will be wrong; police and military uniforms will be wrong - police badges or military medals and ribbons worn over the right breast, not the left, Sam Browne belts will go over the wrong shoulder, armbands will be on the wrong arm, insignia will be reversed (if possible, and not redrawn), etc; computer keyboards will have the numberpad on the left; and many other such things.

* As it arguably does in this case - Two-face's ruined side being the left was probably not a random choice. Though the significance of having the ruined (and, thus, evil) side being the left ('sinister') side is probably not consciously recognized by most people.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

psychop_rex
2009-10-13 08:47 pm UTC (link)

I understand that, but as long as one understands that this IS the case, one can read the story without feeling particularly confused. I myself was a little baffled by the whole 'Two-Face's scars on the right' thing, but after that, I can't say I noticed anything particularly wrong. (Anyway, when a comics company has the resources that DC has, they can afford to spend a little extra time on the renovation. Most likely, Asamiya himself did most of the redrawing - and presumably, he was aware that he'd have to do this from the beginning, so one can't really say that this was done against the artist's wishes or something like that.) I was talking in terms of the comic's overall flow - its general readability, as it were. I can't say I've ever noticed that the image being flipped affects this flow in any particular way - the images still progress in a logical manner, nobody's faces look weird or distorted, etc.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

kamino_neko
2009-10-13 11:49 pm UTC (link)

I seriously can't comprehend how 'absolutely nothing looks like it's supposed to, including things the reader's supposed to be familiar with' is easier to ignore than 'the panel on the right comes before the panel on the left'.

I have occasionally started reading in the wrong order - mostly when switching to manga after a bunch of western comics, or vice versa - but a panel or two of confusion, and it's an easy mental shift. (Sometimes I can go a page or more before noticing, because it's a sequence that manages to make sense in both directions. An issue of the Vertigo Deadman holds the record - I was halfway through the book before hitting a page that only made sense l-r.)

Even everyone being left-handed falls into the realm of not being noticed most of the time, until something else brings it up.

But when something I'm familiar with - a computer, a car, a video game system, a uniform, a familiar character design - is backwards, it had better be DELIBERATE and have an explanation, or it's going to push me out of the story and prevent me getting back in. That's the sort of thing that's used as a plot point, or world building.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

psychop_rex
2009-10-14 01:08 am UTC (link)

Well, maybe it's easier for you. All I know is that, speaking as an only-occasional reader of manga, it is NOT an easy mental shift for ME to make, and I would rather not suffer through numerous splitting headaches until my brain adjusts. I can appreciate the artforms of other cultures, and enjoy doing so, but when I read something for enjoyment, I would rather ENJOY myself, and not have to strip my mental gears by driving in reverse, as it were. It's the same reason why I prefer watching Bollywood movies with the subtitles on - I COULD spend a lot of time learning Hindi and get a purer understanding of just what's being said, but what's the point when I could spend that time watching Bollywood films and enjoying myself? (Besides, the bad subtitles are fun.) Similarly, if I'm reading a flipped manga and happen to notice that everyone is left-handed (which, by the way, I never HAVE noticed so far), I'd just go 'Whee! I'm in left-handed wonderland!" and keep reading.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	foxhack 2009-10-13 02:01 pm UTC (link)
	I remember seeing some adaptations that added tiny arrows for people who aren't used to reading it that way. :p (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	psychop_rex 2009-10-13 08:57 pm UTC (link)
	No, I understand HOW to read them - it's just that I have to concentrate very hard to read things in the exact reverse order to what I'm used to, and this invariably leads to a need for an aspirin or two. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	nezchan 2009-10-13 04:07 am UTC (link)
	Man, how long has it been since Silent Mobius came out and still all his women look like Rally. Not necessarily a bad thing really, I'm just surprised. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	shanejayell 2009-10-13 04:38 am UTC (link)
	His girls had that look before Silent Mobius too. Just look at Compiler. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	tacobob 2009-10-13 04:22 am UTC (link)
	I think once your Jedi starts going for that look, it's time to throw him in the brig and throw away the key! He's going Sith-side up! (Reply to this) (Thread)

	darkblade 2009-10-13 05:08 am UTC (link)
	Now thats just crazy talk. Stoping important jedi figures when it is obvious they are switching sides before they become big threats? Next you'll be telling us to aim for the jedi and not the lightsabre. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	mullon 2009-10-13 04:56 am UTC (link)
	This makes me curious to know what Japan thinks of American comic books. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	darkblade 2009-10-13 05:09 am UTC (link)
	Don't quote me or anything but I'd think it'd probably be the same way we see manga. Cautious curiosity with a sense of smugness. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	scottyquick 2009-10-14 03:05 am UTC (link)
	My friend was a Japanese exchange student and when I asked him he said "I didn't know North America made comic books!" . (Reply to this) (Parent)

	arilou_skiff 2009-10-13 08:00 am UTC (link)
	Holy shit that's some nose that woman has! (Reply to this) (Thread)

	yaseen101 2009-10-13 08:12 am UTC (link)
	DAMN YOU! Now I can't stop staring, I knew I should have read the comic before I went to the comment's section. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	psychop_rex 2009-10-13 08:51 am UTC (link)
	Not just her - every person in the whole story has enormous beaky noses. You know that something's a bit off when the Penguin's nose looks NORMAL. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	arilou_skiff 2009-10-13 08:57 am UTC (link)
	I wouldn't describe it as "beaky"... But yeah, they have huge straight noses. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	psychop_rex 2009-10-13 09:59 am UTC (link)
	How would you describe them, then? I always thought 'beaky', when applied to noses, just meant large and pointy. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	arilou_skiff 2009-10-13 05:24 pm UTC (link)
	I don't know, I always figured "beaky" meant crooked. (Kind of like a raptor's beak) (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	psychop_rex 2009-10-13 08:59 pm UTC (link)
	Those are what they call 'hooked' noses, I think - Sherlock Holmes's nose is often described like that. I dunno - they're highly stylized noses in any case. Odd, coming from a Japanese artist - I doubt Japan has a plethora of noses like that. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	silicone_soul 2009-10-13 05:27 pm UTC (link)
	Ethnic stereotyping from the other direction? (Reply to this) (Parent)

	jeyl 2009-10-13 10:21 am UTC (link)
	Me no like cannoning Revan male. :( (Reply to this) (Thread)

	joysweeper 2009-10-14 03:08 am UTC (link)
	So much motto. I like a female Sith Lord who actually goes by Lord. And is morally ambiguous. And is androgynous and doesn't particularly care if people get the pronouns wrong. hides the fanfic (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	jeyl 2009-10-14 04:16 am UTC (link)
	joysweeper: hides the fanfic In my preferred run of KOTOR, Revan is female and hooks up with Juhani at the end. So shocking I didn't need fanfic for that to happen. Still counting down the days before that will happen again. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	espanolbot 2009-10-14 07:02 pm UTC (link)
	...If it's a DNA altering macguffin, how did it copy Harvey's scarring? (Reply to this)

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