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box_in_the_box ([info]box_in_the_box) wrote in [info]scans_daily,
@ 2009-10-05 10:46:00

Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Crazy NuSpidey theory that I am already well aware is crazy: Could Gwen Stacy be coming back?
This one did not come from me, but actually came from a NuSpidey supporter, with the handle "Whiteshark," on the CBR Spider-Man forum, who offered the following evidence for their theory:

Whiteshark was observant enough to notice the boots of the person who appears to be sitting on the tombstone of Kraven the Hunter, in the cover image for Amazing Spider-Man #612:



Whiteshark's first thought was that those boots are being worn by the wife or daughter of Kraven, since a female Kraven has already been shown recruiting members of the Gauntlet for the title's upcoming story arc.

But then, Whiteshark remembered that Gwen Stacy traditionally wore very similar boots, as seen in the cover for Amazing Spider-Man #144:



Even as recently as a few months ago, with the NuSpidey status quo well underway, if anybody had seriously argued to me that Gwen Stacy might actually be coming back, I would have laughed in their faces, because while I may well be a tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist with regard to Quesada's Marvel, even I would have given them more credit than that.

Some points to consider, though:

  1. Quesada stated in interviews immediately following "One More Day" that he wanted to use OMD to bring Gwen back, but he was overridden by his own "brain trust." Since then, though, almost all of the original members of the "brain trust" have rotated out, and ... well, as with J. Michael Straczynski, we've already seen what happens with writers who override Quesada's will, because while they might succeed in the short term, Quesada always gets his way in the long run.


  2. For the first time in more than a decade, not only is Marvel heavily acknowledging the existence of the "Clone Saga," but it's also made the "Clone Saga" a key plot point in current continuity. For those who might have forgotten, Miles Warren, a.k.a. the Jackal, cloned Gwen in the original clone story that became the basis of the "Clone Saga" during the mid-1990s.


  3. In this title's most recent story arcs, we've seen three different writers basically adopting the exact same (very likely editorially mandated) approach to portraying Peter Parker's love life, which is to show him falling in and out of quasi-romantic relationships with multiple women at a time. Bringing back Gwen would, for the first time in the published history of the 616 version of the character, allow all three of the franchise's most memorable "Spider-Man's girlfriends" to coexist at the same time, in the same stories. I suspect this would hold an equal appeal to nostalgic fans and Marvel marketing alike.


  4. Quesada has stated in relatively recent interviews that his previous pronouncement, that "everything stayed the same, except for the wedding," has since become false, in that "one other thing" has changed in the character's pre-OMD continuity.


  5. During the "American Son" storyline, the art in one issue showed what appeared to be a clone gestation tank, with the label "G. Stacy."
Bottom line, Marvel has the means, motive and opportunity to do this. It could be as simple as saying that Warren had already cloned Gwen, and replaced Gwen with her clone, shortly before Norman Osborn killed her, which would mean that Norman mistakenly killed Gwen's clone instead of Gwen herself. As for where the original Gwen has been all this time, Warren could have kept her in a stasis tank, which would have been appropriated by Norman after the end of the "Clone Saga."

Yes, this explanation would create some continuity questions, but no more so than the explanation that was eventually given for Harry Osborn's resurrection. The point being, we've long since reached the point where this wouldn't even be the stupidest retcon that's been committed during the current Spider-Man status quo.


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[info]darkblade
2009-10-05 06:57 pm UTC (link)
No this is going too far. Even excepting Quesada's insane claims that Spider-man is more "interesting" without Mary-Jane and One More Day is making him interesting again. The death of Gwen Stacey was the landmark that showed the end of the Silver Age and the begining of the Bronze Age where it is all but universally agreed that comics as a medium improved the quality of their stories for an extended period of time.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]box_in_the_box, 2009-10-05 07:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkblade, 2009-10-05 07:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]liliaeth, 2009-10-05 07:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]box_in_the_box, 2009-10-05 07:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkblade, 2009-10-05 07:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]yaseen101, 2009-10-05 07:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]freezer818, 2009-10-05 10:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sinisterlink, 2009-10-05 07:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]liliaeth, 2009-10-05 07:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]yaseen101, 2009-10-05 07:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sinisterlink, 2009-10-05 07:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]angelophile, 2009-10-05 08:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]arilou_skiff, 2009-10-05 07:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]thatnickguy, 2009-10-05 07:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sinisterlink, 2009-10-05 07:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]arilou_skiff, 2009-10-05 07:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]box_in_the_box, 2009-10-05 07:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]arilou_skiff, 2009-10-05 07:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]box_in_the_box, 2009-10-05 07:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]angelophile, 2009-10-05 08:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]box_in_the_box, 2009-10-05 08:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]angelophile, 2009-10-05 08:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]box_in_the_box, 2009-10-05 08:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]angelophile, 2009-10-05 09:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]box_in_the_box, 2009-10-05 09:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wizardru, 2009-10-05 08:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]yaseen101, 2009-10-05 07:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]box_in_the_box, 2009-10-05 07:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]yaseen101, 2009-10-05 07:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aaron_bourque, 2009-10-05 09:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]icon_uk, 2009-10-05 10:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aaron_bourque, 2009-10-06 03:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kingrockwell, 2009-10-06 08:29 pm UTC

[info]espanolbot
2009-10-05 06:58 pm UTC (link)
Maybe Kraven has a returned from the grave with a thing for women's shoes? :)

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sinisterlink, 2009-10-05 07:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]janegray, 2009-10-05 08:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]nezchan, 2009-10-06 12:47 am UTC

[info]arilou_skiff
2009-10-05 07:19 pm UTC (link)
The way I remember it it was JMS who wanted to bring Gwen back and Quesada who overruled him. That's from a JMS interview btw.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]box_in_the_box, 2009-10-05 07:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]arilou_skiff, 2009-10-05 07:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]box_in_the_box, 2009-10-05 07:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]akodo_rokku, 2009-10-05 07:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wizardru, 2009-10-05 08:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]box_in_the_box, 2009-10-05 08:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]neuhallidae, 2009-10-05 07:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]arilou_skiff, 2009-10-05 07:28 pm UTC

[info]thatnickguy
2009-10-05 07:25 pm UTC (link)
Huh. There are Spidey comics, aside from the great Marvel Adventure ones, being published? This is news to me! *returns to watching Spectacular Spider-Man*

Also, though you bring up a lot of good evidence, there could also be a return of that Lady Kraven chick or whatever he name was.

(Reply to this)


[info]mugiwara
2009-10-05 07:32 pm UTC (link)
Bringing Stacy bakc? Ugh... What is the point of getting rid of the plague if they bring back the cholera?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]yaseen101, 2009-10-05 07:43 pm UTC

[info]thokstar
2009-10-05 07:41 pm UTC (link)
Obviously, that boot belongs to the Jackal, who's transfered his mind into a cloned body of Gwen Stacy.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]neuhallidae, 2009-10-05 08:05 pm UTC

[info]mcspakypants
2009-10-05 07:46 pm UTC (link)
I'm already reading a great Spider-man book with Peter and Gwen together so thankfully I won't care if 616 Gwen comes back or not.

Speaking of said great Spider-man book writer, I'm almost positive he's chomping at the bits to write an Amazing Spider-man story that undoes OMD.

(Reply to this)


[info]jaybee3
2009-10-05 07:46 pm UTC (link)
On one hand I wouldn't be surprised. Bucky is back. Jason Todd is back. Barry Allen is back. The only ones still dead are Gwen, Uncle Ben and the Silver Age Kara Zor-El who died in Crisis (who is not the same as the Loeb/Turner revamp even personality wise).

On the other hand as long as Sins Past remains in continuity (and Queseda has said it does) I really don't want to see the Gwen Stacy who gave her virginity to the Green Goblin because she felt sorry for him or was attracted to him (Blech!) or whatever BS Queseda is saying and then had his kids in Europe(who aged rapidly) ALL THE WHILE supposedly being in love with and keeping that big a secret from Peter. The pre-Sins Past Gwen was not that type of character. If anything I've always viewed Gwen as the Marvel version of Lana Lang (if Clark has been in love with her) and MJ as Peter's Lois - not the other way around.

(Reply to this)


[info]deepspaceartist
2009-10-05 07:56 pm UTC (link)
Couldn't it be the Goblin Daughter, whatshername? The one who is functionaly identical to Gwen, has both Goblin blood from her dad and Spider-blood from Peter via tranfusion, and whose name also starts with G?
Actually, her Brother's name was Gabriel, wasn't it? It could be any Stacy in that tank.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]zechs27, 2009-10-05 08:09 pm UTC

[info]thandrak
2009-10-05 07:57 pm UTC (link)
This has been a theory of mine for a few weeks, actually. I think I refer to it in a post about the G. Stacy tank... or was it a letters column about it.

(Reply to this)


[info]mr_fig
2009-10-05 08:33 pm UTC (link)
Hmm I just figured it was Ana Kravinoff or her Mother. I mean its not like its a surprise who is going to be behind The Gauntlet.

(Reply to this)


[info]taggerung301
2009-10-05 08:34 pm UTC (link)
it wouldn't surprise me if she came back in all honesty
kinda hope she won't though

(Reply to this)


[info]halloweenjack
2009-10-05 08:36 pm UTC (link)
It won't be Gwen, for the simple reason that people have already guessed that it might be.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]box_in_the_box, 2009-10-05 08:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]khamelea, 2009-10-05 09:46 pm UTC

[info]xdoop
2009-10-05 08:45 pm UTC (link)
During the "American Son" storyline, the art in one issue showed what appeared to be a clone gestation tank, with the label "G. Stacy."

Yeah, but I think it was a guy.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]nezchan, 2009-10-06 01:00 am UTC

[info]starwolf_oakley
2009-10-05 08:46 pm UTC (link)
If they can bring back Bucky Barnes as a Soviet agent with a cyborg arm, anything is possible.

There are those who still think Marvel made a mistake bringing back Norman Osborn to "wrap up" the Clone Saga. But they're sticking with it.

I've wondered if a Gwen-centric take on Batman's "Under The Hood" would work. Gwen returns, knows Peter is Spider-Man, and is enraged he didn't "man up" and kill Norman Osborn. She becomes determined to show Peter Parker "what great power and great responsibility REALLY mean."

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]seriousfic, 2009-10-05 11:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]timgueguen, 2009-10-06 07:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkknightjrk, 2009-10-06 12:56 am UTC

[info]mullon
2009-10-05 08:57 pm UTC (link)
I don't see any Chameleon toys, so I'm going to guess they're the Chameleon's boots.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]statham1986, 2009-10-06 01:27 pm UTC

[info]silverzeo
2009-10-05 09:14 pm UTC (link)
Are you sure this going to happen? What about those "unexpected" twists that writers put in to throw the logic that the readers expect and turn everything upside down?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]box_in_the_box, 2009-10-05 09:17 pm UTC

[info]freddie_mac
2009-10-05 10:05 pm UTC (link)
I'd be disappointed if they brought back Gwen, simply because her death is one of the last "good deaths" that hasn't been undone. What's a good death" One that has a profound impact on the surviving characters for years. Aside from the deaths of parents or parent figures, three come to mind: Gwen; Jean Grey (her *first* death, and it says a lot that I have to specify); Barry Allen. Any other "good deaths" come to mind (even if they have been retconned)?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]cyberghostface, 2009-10-05 10:31 pm UTC

[info]sd_mouser
2009-10-05 10:51 pm UTC (link)
Although it's been said before, "And THEN he brings back Uncle Ben! But an EVIL Uncle Ben! One with mind control powers!"

(Reply to this)


[info]nr4b
2009-10-05 11:05 pm UTC (link)
Given all the stupid things that have gone on in Spider-Man comics since. . . oh, I'm going to say since the Clone Saga, and given that an especially large number of them have gone on in recent years, this wouldn't surprise me a bit. I hate the way comic books cheapen death, but at this point the damage is already done. No one is going to have to revise their "Top Ten Lamest Spider-Man Moments" list.

What kills me is this. If they were going to end Peter Parker's marriage, and if they were going to bring Gwen Stacy back, they could have actually connected the two things, and given us a year's worth of emotional conflict and realistic human characterization. But of course the goal was to make Spidey seem younger, and a divorced Peter Parker is even worse in that regard than a married one.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]punishermax, 2009-10-05 11:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]box_in_the_box, 2009-10-05 11:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]punishermax, 2009-10-05 11:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]box_in_the_box, 2009-10-05 11:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]punishermax, 2009-10-05 11:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]box_in_the_box, 2009-10-05 11:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]punishermax, 2009-10-05 11:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mr_fig, 2009-10-05 11:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]punishermax, 2009-10-05 11:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]box_in_the_box, 2009-10-05 11:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]punishermax, 2009-10-05 11:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]box_in_the_box, 2009-10-05 11:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]punishermax, 2009-10-05 11:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mr_fig, 2009-10-05 11:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ashtoreth, 2009-10-06 05:36 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]seriousfic, 2009-10-05 11:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]punishermax, 2009-10-05 11:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]seriousfic, 2009-10-05 11:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]punishermax, 2009-10-05 11:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]box_in_the_box, 2009-10-05 11:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkknightjrk, 2009-10-06 01:05 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]box_in_the_box, 2009-10-06 01:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]fredneil.livejournal.com, 2009-10-06 02:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]nr4b, 2009-10-06 07:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]box_in_the_box, 2009-10-06 07:08 pm UTC

[info]punishermax
2009-10-05 11:27 pm UTC (link)
The really tragic thing about the Clone Saga was that the original ending was SO COOL that it hurts to see the bullshit that ended up happening.

Originally, Ben was going to survive and we'd get an East Coast Spidey and a West Coast Spidey.

How badass would that be?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]box_in_the_box, 2009-10-05 11:41 pm UTC

[info]jlbarnett
2009-10-05 11:39 pm UTC (link)
well the one good thing about pulling her out of a tank would be that if people revolted to much then they could just declare her a clone.

It might also allow the Stacy kids to come back. Make it Gwen's clones who had them. It lessens the damage to the real Gwen Stacy's character because she's not quite a perfect duplicate. And maybe their hyper aging could be explained with their father has this crazy serum pumping through his blood and their mother was a clone so they weren't really normal

I will say one thing. It takes a lot of balls to use one of the most reviled storylines ever to undo one of the most iconic moments in comic's history.

(Reply to this)


[info]sandoz_iscariot
2009-10-05 11:51 pm UTC (link)
For what it's worth, there's a "What If...Gwen survived House of M?" issue coming out in December. I wouldn't be surprised if that's meant to test the waters for Gwen's return.

I'm reminded of something one of the writers from the 90s animated Spider-Man animated series said, in regards to why Gwen only had a cameo in an alternate universe episode: they felt that if Gwen was a supporting character she would have to die, and since the censors wouldn't let them do that, they never included her. But now we have Gwen alive and a major character in a new Spider-Man cartoon, and she's a very real presence in the live action, Ultimate (I know she died there, but she got better), Marvel Adventures, and SMLMJ verses. The idea that Gwen must always be "doomed" is slowly dissolving. And of course the Spidey Brain Trust is very fond of the era where Gwen was around. So I think a Gwen resurrection is more possible now that it's ever been.

Is it a good idea? Not to me. I think if people want to revisit the time when Gwen was alive and she, Peter, MJ, Harry and Flash were all young and kickin' it and playing romantic musical chairs, they should have a nice sit-down with the Essential Spider-Man books. Or read/see any of the different Spidey series I mentioned above (well, maybe not Spider-Man 3). But I think it would be a bad direction for 616 Spidey (not that they've listened to me before...)

(Reply to this)


[info]jlbarnett
2009-10-05 11:57 pm UTC (link)
I hate to say this but G Stacy could stand for Goblin Stacy with her being a mutated clone or something.

(Reply to this)


[info]timemonkey
2009-10-06 01:23 am UTC (link)
I wouldn't be surprised. Marvel has showna definite tendency to force their comics to mimic whatever other versions are popular (they even tried to turn Mystique into what she looked like in the movie, fortunately it didn't take). With the cartoon going they might consider adding her back into current continuity because she's 'popular on the show' especially if she appears in the movies (I wouldn't know I didn't make it through the third one, the stupid was too much).

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]punishermax, 2009-10-06 02:00 am UTC

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