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Snape and His Fears

The World of Severus Snape

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Snape and His Fears

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I didn't have time this month to do a full essay, but here are a few thoughts about Snape and his fears...

For someone who is working as a double or triple agent, death and torture would be obvious fears, especially considering how Voldemort treats traitors. However, rather than death per se, I believe that his greatest fear is probably dying before he is able to fulfill the promise he made to Dumbledore on Lily's behalf, of protecting Harry and defeating Voldemort--or of failing in that task, whether he survives or not. In canon, we know that fear was realized when he was slain by Nagini before he could see the outcome of the final battle. Maybe he at least had some hope at the end, knowing that he was passing along those vital memories to Harry.

On the other hand, by that time Snape knew that Dumbledore expected Harry to die along with Voldemort, so maybe his greatest fear and despair was that Lily's son would have to be sacrificed no matter which side won, and knowing that all the work he'd put into protecting Harry over the years would be for naught. Maybe in a grim way, he found some comfort in not having to witness what he believed would be Harry's inevitable death.

Which is not to say that Snape did not fear torture and death at all--I am sure he did, even if it was not what he feared most. But I believe that he accepted that fear and risk as a necessary part of his duties. Neither do I think that bravery is the absence of fear--rather, it takes more bravery to do what one feels is right in spite of one's fears. I remember reading an essay about Superman and bravery years ago--I believe that it was written by a science fiction author; I have a vague recollection that it might be Spider Robinson, but I can't find confirmation of that. Anyway, whoever it was argued that Superman could not be brave because nothing on Earth can physically harm him: he can be good and noble and kind, but not brave in the way that normal people like you and I can be when we act in spite of our fears. Actually, I disagree with the author--Superman may not fear any physical harm other than Kryptonite, but he can certainly fear having the people that he cares about being threatened or killed because of their connection to him. Still, I understand what the author of the essay was trying to say, and I would argue that Snape shows this sort of bravery, in carrying out a difficult task despite the threat of physical harm, as well as all the emotional conflicts and fears that he has to deal with as well.

Another fear Snape shows in the books is for the state of his soul. When Dumbledore asks Snape to kill him so that Draco's soul will not be damaged, Snape retorts, "And my soul, Dumbledore? Mine?" I know we've talked about this before in other essays or discussion posts on Snapedom, that this probably indicates that Snape has never killed anyone before, at least not directly, even as a Death Eater.

And I think that he might fear dying with everyone still believing he is a traitor, with no one knowing his true loyalties. I don't think that he necessarily wants the motivation for his loyalty to Dumbledore to be known, since he insists on keeping it a secret from Harry, but he does react very strongly when Harry calls him a coward at the end of HBP. It's natural for him to feel angry, of course, since he's sacrificed so much to protect Harry, and Harry hasn't a clue, but Snape has such a strong emotional response that I think it's more than that. If he truly didn't care what anyone thought of him, it wouldn't bother him nearly as much. Snape's last dying plea of, "Look...at...me..." could merely be a last wish to look into Lily's eyes, or it could be a plea for Harry, for someone, to look and see the true man within for once.
  • I think Snape's strong emotional response is not due to Harry calling him a coward.Harry says something more:....".kill me like you killed him"...speaking of his father and thus also of his mother,Lily.
    So imo Snape reacts so fiercely out of pain and guilt, he already is beyond feeling offended by being accused as coward.
    • Ah, I hadn't thought of that, since I was focusing on the "coward" part, but I see your point, especially since we know that he's been driven by guilt and remorse all these years.
    • Just wondering-

      What makes people think Severus is thinking of James at that point? Why would he be? He has, quite literally, just killed Dumbledore! That he should be thinking of James (and Lily - whom he did not kill, but risked his life repeatedly to protect - strikes me as a very counterintuitive reading of this scene.
      • Kill me like you killed him

        I eventually adopted that reading.

        When Harry first screams “Fight back, you coward,” Severus responds, “Your father would never attack me unless it was four on one, what would you call him, I wonder?” That the insult brings James to Severus’s mind makes me wonder if the Marauders had called “Snivellus” a coward—for crying, perhaps, or trying to run away, instead of always fighting back.

        But whatever; Harry’s yelling “coward” pushes the James-button in Severus’s mind.

        Throughout most of the flight, Severus is in control. But the second time Harry calls him coward, Severus loses it. Why?

        Harry was mere feet away and he could see Snape’s face clearly at last. He was no longer sneering or jeering; the blazing flames showed a face full of rage. Mustering all his powers of concentration, Harry thought, Levi—.
        “No, Potter!” screamed Snape [Disarms Harry and stands over him] “…you’d turn my inventions on me, like your filthy father, would you?”
        …“Kill me then… Kill me like you killed him, you coward—”
        “DON’T—“ screamed Snape, and his face was suddenly demented, inhuman, as though he was in as much pain as the yelping, howling dog stuck in the burning house behind them—“CALL ME COWARD!”


        First, James HAS just been mentioned. Secondly, Severus is clearly using non-verbal Legilimency on Harry—he read Harry’s attempt to use Levicorpus. So what did he see in Harry’s mind that “suddenly” cracked his control so badly when he’d been holding it together until then?

        Well, Harry has TWO fresh grievances against Snape: Dumbledore’s murder and his discovery, a few hours earlier, that Snape told Voldemort the Prophecy. Might not they both be near the top of Harry’s mind? And it’s hardly going to be a shock to see that Harry hates Snape for killing Dumbledore.

        The only other time Severus went deranged and CAPSLOCK was in PoA, when he captured Lily’s betrayer and LILY’S OWN SON wanted to release the traitor. (Okay, so his interpretation was a bit faulty. In fact, backwards. The point is, what got him that upset was Lily’s betrayal and death.)

        Now, for Harry, Snape’s telling Voldemort “TO GO AFTER MY MUM AND DAD!”—which, of course, is not actually what Severus did—would have been like Peter’s throttling Harry. “After I saved your life?” Harry still believes the fairy tale that James had saved Snivelly’s life at risk of his own, not saved the Marauder’s necks.

        Dumbledore had told Harry that Professor Snape “couldn’t bear being in your father’s debt…. I do believe he worked so hard to protect you this year because he felt that that would make him and your father even.” How does that combine with Dumbledore’s most recent story, that Snape’s turning over the Prophecy became “the greatest regret of his life” when he found out who Voldemort meant to target? It would follow that Snape protects Harry to make up for his role in Harry’s father’s death. To accept Snape’s protection, then, is to allow Snape to assuage his guilt.

        AFTER Harry realized that another DE, not Snape, cast the Cruciatus, and that Snape stopped it, Harry’s hatred escalated to hating Snape “as much as he hated Voldemort himself.” Why else would stopping torture make Harry hate Snape MORE?

        Which puts the invitation “Kill me like you killed him!” on a whole new level of hostility.

        Now, I don’t argue for a second that Harry thinks any of this. In the scene as written Harry isn’t thinking at all, just feeling and acting.

        But Legilimency extracts “feelings and memories,” not “thoughts,” anyway.

        Whether Harry meant “him” to refer to James or Dumbledore, what he feels includes: that Severus betrayed James as well as Dumbledore, that Severus protected Harry to make up for James, that Harry won’t tolerate this any more, and that Dumbledore betrayed Harry by hiding it. The memories roiling through Harry’s mind include gaping at Sybil and screaming at Dumbledore as well as watching a jet of green light.

        (And that Harry gets it so close to right but slights Lily just twists the knife that little bit more.)

        That’s the shock that made Severus lose it so completely.

        His oldest, most unbearable guilt and grief piled unexpectedly on top of his freshest.

        No wonder he looked demented.
    • I agree with [info]mary_j_59: Harry is referring to Dumbledore, and the reason (or part of the reason) Severus reacts so strongly is because Harry accuses him of having killed Dumbledore out of cowardice, while we find out later that it was an act of considerable courage and faithfulness.
  • Good points about Snape's fears.

    In GOF, Snape is particularly affected by Crouch/fake-Moody's implying to Snape that Dumbledore doesn't trust him. Later, in the Prince's Tale memories of Snape and Dumbledore during HBP, we can still see Snape wanting more evidence of Dumbledore's trust in him. I think Snape feared losing, or perhaps discovering that he never really had the trust of Dumbledore. Whatever his actual feelings toward Dumbledore (and I personally think he did care for him, as evidenced in his attitude toward Dumbledore when he's helping him after the ring/horcrux curse), I think Snape needed to know that Dumbledore trusted him. Maybe it was because Dumbledore was the one person who knew the truth about him, and therefore Dumbledore's trust was necessary for him. In any case, when Snape is concerned about that trust, it seems to upset him, as in his reaction to fake-Moody, and to Dumbledore.

    I think his concern over a lack of trust is at the level of a fear, because that concern brings out pretty strong emotion in Snape.
    • Yes. And also remember that during the latter part of VoldWar I the Aurors were authorized to use Unforgivables (plural) on DE suspects. And even after Voldemort's fall they were locking people up without trial (Sirius). I rather doubt that anyone accused of being a DE sympathizer during that whole period got the velvet-glove treatment, if you know what I mean.

      We don't know exactly what happened wrt Severus then, but we do know that he was at least investigated, since Dumbles had to testify for him. I doubt his memories of the process are fond ones, to say the least. It's quite possible that he fears that losing Dumbles' trust could lead to a very unpleasant fate for him...at best, more Auror nastiness, at worst, Azkaban. Certainly he seems to have no other protector.
      • Good point, that Snape had very practical reasons to fear losing Dumbledore's trust. I seem to remember that in the flashback in GoF, Karakaroff named Snape as a Death Eater, but Dumbledore had already cleared his name. So if Dumbledore hadn't been there for him, Snape might well have ended up in Azkaban.

        I do think his desire for Dumbledore's trust is partly personal as well--a combination of fears, if you will. I wouldn't exactly call Dumbledore and Snape friends, but he's the only one who knows the whole truth about Snape (and Harry), so that would create a bond of sorts between them, even if it's a somewhat forced one.
        • Oh yes, I would agree that it's partly personal as well - I imagine that having anyone trust him is something he holds very dear. And I do get the sense that he both looks up to and cares for Dumbles (especially in that scene with the ring), whatever Dumbles may feel for him.

          My gut reading of Severus is that, if you show him even a hint of care, he's yours virtually for keeps, even if you slap him down. You'd have to do something drastic (like, say, murdering his love) to really turn him against you.
    • I had forgotten that he does seem to take it personally when Crouch/Moody talks about Dumbledore not trusting Snape. I do think he cared about Dumbledore, even though he resented him as well. I think that the secret shared between them, about Snape's change of heart and their plans for Harry, would almost inevitably create some sort of bond between them, especially since they had to keep it for so many years.

      And as 00sevvie points out, he has practical reasons to fear losing Dumbledore's trust, since Dumbledore most likely kept him out of Azkaban. But I do feel that his need for Dumbledore's trust is at least partly personal as well. There must be an incredible loneliness in having your loyalties doubted and not being able to confide in anyone except for one person, so keeping that one person's trust would be pretty important.
  • fear of failure

    I believe Severus greatly feared failure. The essay briefly touched upon this topic, but it can be expanded. Severus would likely have a great fear of general failure - he is very intelligent and capable, but his ego is fragile. He has already failed in many ways that matter - to protect Lily, to become a respected wizard, to become whatever it was he initially intended to be (because professor and double agent surely weren't his top career choices). Failure would be a very personal blow, even if no one knew about the failing but him. Currently the stakes are so high and the risk of failure just that more real. Should he fail, he would fail not just himself but the entire wizarding world. The very sad part is that whether he succeeds or fails, he would feel that no one would ever know the role he played.
    • Re: fear of failure

      Yes, I completely agree with this. I meant to write a proper essay for the challenge on Severus and fear of failure, but time got away from me. ;)

      I think that failure is possibly Severus' worst fear. As you say, his ego is fragile (and thus the need to keep boosting it by putting others down/appearing intimidating/etc.) He probably does see himself as having failed many times already - he (from his POV) failed to be the sort of person Lily would love, failed to stay friends with her, failed to see what he was getting into with the DE's, failed to protect her, failed at whatever his plans were, etc. And now, of course, if he fails, as you point out he fails not just himself but everyone. Including Lily, Dumbles, and Harry (who I believe he eventually does care for, tho he does not *like* him).

      My take on his boggart (before he knows about the Harrycrux - afterwards I'm not sure): Harry's dead body. The sum of all his failures and the proof he's failed at what has been his life's mission since he was 21.

      The very sad part is that whether he succeeds or fails, he would feel that no one would ever know the role he played.

      Oh, yes. Especially during that last year. And we don't hear of anything Dumbles left to prove Severus' real loyalties, do we? Of course, it would be dangerous to leave something tangible, but it could be hidden behind his portrait. And since we have no indication that portrait testimony is valid in court, I don't quite buy that explanation. Dumbles may have suspected Harry would return, but he gave no hint of that to Severus. So, to all appearances, Severus went to his death believing there was a very good chance he would be known to history as a traitor and a murderer, all of his very real sacrifices forgotten. That takes bloody courage!
    • Re: fear of failure

      Thanks for pointing that out! I hadn't thought of it in exactly those terms, but I think you're absolutely right. As 00sevvie said, that could be a whole essay subject on its own.

      While reading the last two books, I kept hoping that Dumbledore had left behind some kind of provision to posthumously exonerate Snape, but there doesn't seem to be any evidence of that, unless his portrait would have told the truth after Voldemort was safely defeated, and again, as 00sevvie says, it seems questionable that a portrait's testimony would be accepted by the Ministry.
      • Re: fear of failure

        Perhaps Dumbledore did leave some sort of proof behind, and it would only be revealed under certain circumstances. Since Harry discovered the truth and is now Snape's valiant defender, it would not need to come to light. I've got a fanfic idea around this, but I doubt I'll ever have time to write it. :(
        • Re: fear of failure

          Perhaps. Unfortunately all we have to go on here is speculation. Though I wonder if JKR even realizes how deeply heroic the implications of what she's written make Severus out to be.

          I'd like to see that fanfic! *g* You can find time somehow; maybe a time-turner.
          • Re: fear of failure

            The plot bunny is starting to haunt me, so I'll have to see if I can dig up some nonexistent free time.

            In the meantime, I've resurrected another fic from WIP hell. It's 153 pages long - a potions accident causes a student version of Snape to split off and become a separate person.

            Pimpage.
  • I think we can learn more about Snape's direct fears by examining his irrational hatreds, actually -- a person's strongest, most off-the-hook reactions can usually show the astute observer exactly what he finds most terrifying.

    So first: Bullies. He hates them with a white hot, fiery passion, and this is in part because he was the target of bullies, yes, but it's also because deeply and silently, he fears that he IS one. He fears that he DOES take enjoyment from deliberately harming people weaker than he is, and he fears that he would enjoy it even if he weren't maintaining a cover for the Dark Lord and his followers.

    Second: Coward. He is terrified that he actually IS a coward. He's terrified that, when push comes to shove, he won't be able to do what he knows must be done. He's afraid that when he refused to stand up to his fellow Slytherins, as Lily wanted him to, that it really WAS because of cowardice, and not out of ambition. And he's also afraid that even if he did have the chance to attack Voldemort, and possibly even to kill him, that he would not have the nerve to do it. He fears that, at the last minute, his spirit will fail him, and that everything that's riding on his shoulders will fall through to ruin.

    Third: Talent. He ruthlessly attacks anyone (with the notable exception of Draco,) who displays a natural talent for anything. Even Hermione's talent for potions comes under fire, and I feel that's because he's afraid to validate his OWN talents. He's afraid that in areas like Occlumency, or Potions, or Dark Arts, he hasn't earned his credits, but rather is skating by, as Potter and Black did, on talent alone. He fears he might be taken for a sham, if it ever is revealed just how little he had to try in order to be good at what he's good at. This is also reflected in how TERRIBLE he is at teaching what he's good at -- he didn't have to scrape and strain to understand his three specialties, and so he has no idea what to do with others who don't have his talent... except to scorn them. And even those who do have his talent, he tends to challenge, and badger, and attack into PROVING that they're really good, and not just lucky and lazy.

    And lastly, I think that at his deepest level, Snape is afraid that he really deserves it. He's afraid that he really did deserve to be repudiated forever by the only person who ever showed him love. He's afraid that he deserves Dumbledore's continued distrust. He's afraid that he deserves the student's hatred. He's afraid that he deserves the stigma of traitor. And he's afraid that he deserves the hatred of Lily's only child.

    He's afraid that he really is a bad person, despite not wanting to be. And the fact that he does good works despite that is proof of his deep-rooted courage.
    • Some very good points, most of which I really agree with. (RE bullies, while I think he IS afraid of being/becoming one, I don't actually think he DOES truly enjoy harming people - that is, it like the others is a fear that is unsupported by reality - I think he lashes out in pain and anger.)

      I would disagree slightly about the reality of his teaching being terrible. He certainly only knows one style of teaching, which does not work with those students (like Neville) who do simply do not work well under pressure (tho I would also argue that this eventually helped Neville get to the point we see him reach in DH, unjust as Severus is to him). But he actually has a very good track record as teacher otherwise - his students' OWL pass rate is very high, and the Ministry IIRC admits that all his classes are rather advanced, not just the NEWTS levels. So I doubt that it is only the few students with talent comparable to his who get anything out of his classes. And I think he does, given his emphasis on work and study, care about his students' overall progress, so if he were failing to teach a majority of his students anything I think he certainly would have gone back and corrected the problem somehow.

      However, I completely agree with you wrt Severus believing deep-down that he deserves it all. So far the world seems to have told him that for him it is a 'one strike and you're out' rule, and even when he tries to do go (through spying and such) he's simply put in the position of having to do yet more evil things. So I think on some level he questions that it's even possible for him to be a good man - which I think matters hugely to him. And yet we never see him use the ends-justifies-the-means argument Dumbles himself relies on, an argument that would save him some psychic discomfort. So brava, Severus! He is, as far as I can recall, the only one who displays that sort of moral courage.
    • Interesting post, though I strongly disagree with several of your points:

      He's afraid that when he refused to stand up to his fellow Slytherins, as Lily wanted him to, that it really WAS because of cowardice, and not out of ambition.

      I disagree it had to do with either, I think this is a false dichotomy. I think Severus didn't stand up to his Slytherin friends because he had no reason to, it didn't occur to him that he should have done so until it was too late and Lily wouldn't talk to him. After all his friends were not that different from hers. Mulciber played some unpleasant joke on Mary McDonald and the Marauders played unpleasant jokes on him and the entire school. Lily blamed his friends with dabbling in Dark magic (whatever that was) and her friends were spending time with a Dark creature every month. What's the difference? While Lily did make a show of calling James on his actions she evidently enjoyed them too much.

      It is possible that as a guilt-ridden adult he thought of his behavior in his youth as possibly cowardly rather than a matter of sensible self-preservation, but I don't see any ambition in it.

      Third: Talent. He ruthlessly attacks anyone (with the notable exception of Draco,) who displays a natural talent for anything. Even Hermione's talent for potions comes under fire, and I feel that's because he's afraid to validate his OWN talents. He's afraid that in areas like Occlumency, or Potions, or Dark Arts, he hasn't earned his credits, but rather is skating by, as Potter and Black did, on talent alone. He fears he might be taken for a sham, if it ever is revealed just how little he had to try in order to be good at what he's good at. This is also reflected in how TERRIBLE he is at teaching what he's good at -- he didn't have to scrape and strain to understand his three specialties, and so he has no idea what to do with others who don't have his talent... except to scorn them. And even those who do have his talent, he tends to challenge, and badger, and attack into PROVING that they're really good, and not just lucky and lazy.

      I totally disagree with this. Hermione isn't a threat to Severus in any way. He is miles better than her and he knows it. His criticism of her insistence on showing off in class and regurgitating the text book isn't driven by fear, it is well-earned criticism that she could have made good use of. He is telling her she had the ability to do better, be more creative, put more of herself in her work. We know he appreciated her general intelligence because at Spinner's End he credit's Harry's survival to more talented friends (as well as luck). And like 00sevvie I disagree with your assessment of Severus as a teacher. I think he is one of the better teachers Hogwarts has to offer, the one most concerned for his students and the one who most believes in them. His methods don't work with Neville and I think this frustrates him to no end. I don't think he understands Neville at all - and he finds Neville's fear of him personally insulting because he would never endanger or deliberately hurt a student as opposed to the norm at Hogwarts.

      And no, I don't think Severus is threatened by other people's talent nor do I think he lacks confidence in his own. I just don't see any of that.
    • (Anonymous)
      ITA with your second and fourth points. Anyone who's met with as little love and acceptance as Snape must feel that the fault lies in himself. He isn't loved because he doesn't deserve to be. (Sadly, I suspect the author agrees.) And he'd doubt his own courage because nothing's ever simple for him, as it seems to be for Gryffindors. I've seen the argument that killing Dumbledore was an act of cowardice. I disagree, but Snape himself might be more conflicted, since wizarding morality is largely framed in terms of courage vs. cowardice and he obviously felt the killing was deeply immoral.

      However, I haven't noticed that he hates bullies in general. After all, he cared about Draco. (I have to believe this, otherwise EVERYTHING IS A LIE.) He hates entitlement bullies, specifically the ones he went to school with, because they dehumanize their victims. James and Sirius could do anything they wanted to Snape, whenever they wanted, because they ruled the school and he was the shit under their shoes. He was nothing to them. They brutally confirmed his own deepest fears about being worthless. In the classroom Snape's still that abused teenager, only now he has the upper hand. He can show the little bastards it doesn't pay to mess with him. I think he feels more or less justified in his cruelty because in his mind it's self-defense. He perceives the students as much more powerful than they are, which is almost the opposite of dehumanization, hence it wouldn't occur to him that his behavior might have points in common with the Marauders.

      He's afraid that he really is a bad person, despite not wanting to be. And the fact that he does good works despite that is proof of his deep-rooted courage.

      THIS.

      -L
    • You raise some interesting points--I definitely agree with "Snape is afraid that he really deserves it." His guilt and self-loathing are apparent after Lily dies, and I don't think he ever forgave himself, and probably doesn't think that he deserves forgiveness.

      I'm not sure I agree that he fears other people's talent, though. I had always assumed that Snape's harsh treatment of Hermione was due to the fact that she's Harry's friend, and earned his enmity by association, and perhaps partly because she's a Gryffindor. We don't see him teach any classes other than Harry's, so we don't know how he behaves with students that he doesn't have a grudge against, or in Draco's case, have parents that he needs to flatter in order to keep his cover with the Death Eaters. I've always wondered how he would behave with a bright Slytherin student who had a real talent for Potions, and I like to think that he would feel pleased rather than threatened, and would perhaps very sparingly dole out bits of gruff praise when that student performed well. It's just my own feeling; I can't think of anything in canon to back it up, offhand.
      • I had always assumed that Snape's harsh treatment of Hermione was due to the fact that she's Harry's friend, and earned his enmity by association, and perhaps partly because she's a Gryffindor

        Her being Harry's friend certainly didn't help, but let's look at what else is going on with Hermione.
        1. She shows no originality, but parrots back the text word for word.
        2. She constantly draws attention to herself in class, and never learns to keep her head down. (I have a lot of sympathy with young Hermione, actually. I was also the sort of kid who always had my hand up - but, had a teacher reacted to that the way Severus does to Hermione, I would soon have learned not to volunteer. Hermione never learns.)
        3. Worst of all, she cheats and enables cheating. By assisting Ron, Neville and especially Harry both in and out of class, she undercuts their learning. It was Helen Ketcham who first pointed this out - she's right. Because Hermione doesn't simply help the boys; she repeatedly does their work for them. And either Neville or Harry is the one who will defeat the Dark Lord! They need to learn how to do things on their own, and Hermione undercuts them and makes them dependent on her.

        Otherwise - I don't think Severus is a bad teacher, really. He's got some serious problems, and is not as good as he could be, but I don't think he resents or is jealous of talent. He dislikes cheating. I do agree that he thinks himself unworthy of regard; this is why he's so touchy about respect. If he thought he was respected and deserved to be, he would be more relaxed about it, wouldn't he? Finally, I think he is at heart a very loving person. He longs for love and validation from the people he loves (Lily, Dumbledore, in the end perhaps even Harry) and never gets it from any of them.
        • Word about the respect issue! At some deep level I think he does feel "unworthy of regard" in and of himself. So rather than simply fall into outright despair he substitutes a 'safe' alternative: his role/office/title (Professor), something external to his being that he can claim needs 'respecting' in order to give himself something to hang onto without having to admit to himself that he IS worthy of validation simply for being human. (Is that clear at all?) And when he feels disrespected he immediately gets touchy because he's got so much psychic energy tied up in simultaneously claiming he deserves respect and rejecting it.

          And yes, he is very loving - he's simply not sentimental about it (and therefore he flies under a lot of people's radar, apparently).

          WRT Hermione enabling cheating: I'm sure this is one of the things that most infuriates him about her - and about the boys who uncritically accept her 'help.' He has had to get along on his own hard work, and to face the (sometimes very painful) consequences of his own actions and willingness/failure to learn - the very process Hermione (like Dumbles) is short-circuiting for them.

          I read his insistence on seeing Harry punished, likewise, in general not as meanness but 1) an attempt to keep the scales balanced, asserting to the world and to himself his own right to justice (which of course he secretly doubts), in those cases where Harry's offence is specifically against him, and 2) an attempt to impress upon Harry the importance of rules and the inevitability of consequences for your actions - even an attempt to get Harry to learn this lesson BEFORE he does something drastic enough to have really severe consequences. A reaction to the fear that he will fail Harry and will let him make mistakes like his own, if you will.

          But of course, with Hermione and Dumbles and all there to watch over him, the other shoe never drops for Harry. He is allowed to get away with everything. Which infuriates Severus. Both because he thinks that it is a false security they offer, and because it reminds him of the fact that he has never really even gotten forgiveness, much less been allowed simply to get away with things. (Of course Harry has to fight Voldemort, but that is not something resulting from any action of his own, and has no effect upon Harry's lack of/growth regarding morality and responsibility before the actual battle/s. It's not a consequence from which he can learn, it's just a nasty burden, one which he can rightfully claim isn't really fair at all.)
          • (Anonymous)
            I think everyone is 'spot on' about Snape wanting Harry to realize the consequences of his actions. After all, Snape wants to keep Harry alive. And we hear exactly what Snape believed killed James in PoA - trusting Black - which is ALL involved with the Marauders never having to face the consequences of their actions.

            What's frustrating for him is that it seems Albus is working at cross-purposes with him. Which - once we find out Albus wants Harry to go sacrifice himself - makes a great deal of sense. It will be easier if Harry is the kind of person who DOESN'T think too hard about consequences. And also IF Harry comes to trust that it's Albus who always knows best.

            We see Snape in the early books working to teach Harry about 'consequences' because he wants Harry 'alive' after Voldy's defeat. And we see Albus working to pump up Harry's sense of risky bravery because he knows what Snape doesn't yet - that Harry will need to believe that ONLY he can save everyone - that he must sacrifice himself to defeat Voldy. -- Hwyla
            • To fine-tune your argument: until Harry's return from the graveyard Dumbledore expected Harry will have to really die in order that Voldemort could be destroyed. (Later he just needed Harry to believe that, but he did think it was possible for Harry to survive, as long as Voldemort remained in his Harry-derived body, the Elder Wand remained out of Voldemort's mastery, and Voldemort 'killed' him in an act of willing sacrifice by Harry.)
      • (Anonymous)
        Quote from Geri-Chan: "....I've always wondered how he would behave with a bright Slytherin student who had a real talent for Potions, and I like to think that he would feel pleased rather than threatened, and would perhaps very sparingly dole out bits of gruff praise when that student performed well. It's just my own feeling; I can't think of anything in canon to back it up, offhand."
        --------------------------------------
        Actually, I think we see it in the very first Potions Lesson. Draco IS good at Potions. And Snape points him out to the class as an example to follow for preparing ingredients. It is likely that Draco had private tutors pre-Hogwarts and presumably at least preparing ingredients for potions - if not actual brewing - was part of that.

        I know many people assume Draco was singled out there because Snape must be nice to Lucius' child, but Draco is right behind Hermione in grades (or is that movie2 canon only?)

        As for 'liking Draco' even tho' he's a bully - I think this is a case where Snape doesn't see quite clearly. Anytime we see a Draco-Harry confrontation, Draco is extremely careful with his words and actions in front of Snape. He manages to make it all look like Harry is the one at fault. And Snape is unfortunately pre-wired to believe it because of his background with James. -- Hwyla
        • (Anonymous)
          to add to previous post - I think it's also important to look at Slughorn's NEWT Class. Even tho' students with 'EE's instead of 'O's were allowed into the class - it seems that only Harry and Ron take advantage of this, since they are the only students without the proper book. That means everyone else in the class earned 'O's on their OWLs.

          And IF I recall correctly, there were more Slytherins than any other house (might be wrong about Ravenclaw - might be even). But anyways, there certainly were more Slytherins earning their 'O's than there were Gryffindors. So, whether they are just better suited to Potions or had more respect for the subject or Snape was giving private lessons - Snape DID have Slytherins with 'potions talent' - Hwyla
          • In Slughorns class there were 4 Slytherins, 4 Ravenclaws, Ernie from Hufflepuff and the trio from Gryffindor.

            It has been argued that perhaps some of the Slytherins had Es on their OWLs but got tipped off (by Severus? by a Slytherin on the Board of Governors?) early on about the change in staffing. We know one of the 4 was Draco, we do not know who the other 3 are (though I'm pretty sure they do not include Crabbe and Goyle).

            And yes, it is implied that in 1st year Draco was second to Hermione (in every subject? in average score?).
            • (Anonymous)
              Very unlikely that the tip-off would come from Snape during the summer. After all, part of the reason for switching teachers was to ensure Slughorn's presence at Hogwarts so his 'true' memory might be provided.

              And it isn't as if Sluggy moves up to Hogwarts during the Summer. He goes to Hogwarts on the train (same as Lupin did in PoA). Certainly can't let any DEs find out that Sluggy should be captured before he gets to Hogwarts, so I cannot see where it would be a good idea for Snape to tell his students (whose parents just might be DEs) that they really don't need the grade he has always insisted upon. Especially since they will also be allowed to owl-order a textbook just like Ron and Harry.

              We know the book list goes out with the grades and that Harry and Ron got their grades the day after Harry got to the Burrow, which is approximately the first or second week of July (a fortnight after the end of the previous year). Albus has just finally gotten confirmation that Sluggy will teach on the night before. So, no notice until later in the summer IF at all.

              However, IF it wasn't a secret then why doesn't Albus send a note off to Harry? What reason is there to keep Harry in the dark when he already knows that Sluggy will be teaching? Why not tell him Sluggy will teach potions UNLESS Albus wishes to ensure that Snape's appointment as DADA teacher is not announced until the feast?

              And I don't know that we have any indication that hiring teachers is a subject for the Board of Governors. They seem to have input in regards to the Headmaster, but it doesn't appear as if Albus has ever needed approval of any of his choices for teachers.

              As for the other Slytherins in NEWT Potions, I really must go back and reread. For some reason I seem to think Zambini was one and even more likely Nott (since he's supposed to be as smart as Draco), but unsure for a girl -- Hwyla
              • Personally I thought Dumbledore's reason for secrecy *from Harry* was to ensure Harry didn't have a book so that the Half-Blood Prince's book could be planted on him by Dumbledore and Severus. The story about the DEs being out to recruit Slughorn was BS intended to scare him into seeking safety at Hogwarts. Voldemort had Severus as a brewer and inventor of potions and Voldemort himself was an inventor of potions (which Peter and anyone else could brew). I didn't think Dumbledore needed to keep Slughorn's appointment secret from anyone else - Voldemort didn't figure out Dumbledore was after the Horcruxes even long after Slughorn's appointment. I don't think Voldemort thought Dumbledore would figure out Slughorn knew anything nor did he expect Slughorn to speak.

                Zabini was in the Slug Club, I don't think we have mention of his name specifically as a NEWTs Potions student.
                • (Anonymous)
                  I didn't think they wanted to recruit Sluggy - more like capture him so Albus would never get that memory. Of course, it's possible that Voldy never realized the danger Sluggy's memory provided since he didn't seem to know Albus knew about any of the Horcruxes. In which case, then you would be correct in that it was a scare tactic. Interesting, hadn't thought of it that way. -- Hwyla
                  • OK, it is still reasonable for Dumbledore to take precautions to ensure Slughorn's safety even if Voldemort didn't realize Slughorn should have been on the hit list - Dumbledore is allowed to assume Voldemort to be smarter or more paranoid than he actually was. Just like Dumbledore acted to keep Trelawney safe in the castle when she was fired in OOTP, but Voldemort did not attempt to get the full prophecy from her during the summer or after Dumbledore's death. And I thank you for raising the possibility, I haven't thought of it.

                    The question is whether secrecy around Slughorn's appointment wouldn't have alerted Voldemort to the fact that Dumbledore was indeed going after the Horcruxes and would have prompted him to check them for integrity.

                    (BTW Hwyla, if you still want to discuss timeline details with me we can do it on my journal here.)
        • (Anonymous)
          Agreed about Draco and Potions. From what we see he's one of the top students. Not gifted like Snape, but neither is Hermione or any other of Harry's contemporaries.

          I don't know about Snape being blind to Draco's faults, though. Snape's perceptive, and a mind reader. Would he never notice, in six years as Draco's Head of House, that the kid has bullying tendencies?

          My reading is that he does know but chooses to overlook it. He's been known to deliberately ignore evidence that a Slytherin is at fault (OotP, Flint). It's not like Draco's a total monster bully. Compared to the Marauders he's a rank amateur, and his bullying is mostly verbal. Also, when he picks on Harry he's picking on an equal. Alpha Slyth vs alpha Gryff. Snape, who feels the Slytherins are the underdogs at Hogwarts, may see it as redressing the balance. He's not likely to lose sleep over Potter getting taken down a peg. YMMV.

          -L
          • (Anonymous)
            Yes, I think that part of Severus' attitude towards bullying may be influenced by whether it's verbal/emotional bullying, or physical/magical. A pattern we keep seeing in the books is Slytherins starting it confrontations by being verbally rude, and Gryffindors escalating it by turning it into a physical/magical confrontation. There are some counterexamples, but it's a strong tendency.

            Personally, I don't think a teacher should turn a blind eye towards verbal bullying. Insults between social equals in the school hierarchy seems to me a bit more of a gray area, particularly at a boarding school. I don't like the idea, but I'm not sure that teachers could honestly expect students never to insult each other.

            However, it certainly is reasonable for a teacher to respond more strongly to physical bullying, or even physical fights between equals, than to verbal bullying. And if one house is much more prone to fighting physically/magically rather than verbally/emotionally, that can look like a bias.

            Lynn
            • (Anonymous)
              One of the times when it is obvious that BOTH sides have thrown hexes is the 'infamous' is when Snape claims "I see no difference". I know JKR leads us to believe Snape sees no difference in Hermione's teeth.

              However it's a lovely bit of misdirection. Snape's "I see no difference" is in direct response to Harry and Ron actually CUSSING at him and trying to insist that the hex that hit Hermione was worse than the Boils Hex that hit Goyle.

              This is also a wonderful example of how the Slytherins present themselves while misbehaving. As said, Harry and Ron are actually cussing at Snape, while Draco is polite to him and basically well-behaved. The Slytherin girls are making faces and obviously laughing at Hermione, but they are doing it from behind Snape's back. Since they are silent, Snape doesn't see this, only Hermione does. Therefore it is actually unclear whether it is Snape's comment or Pansy's jeers that send Hermione off crying.

              But I love the reading that Snape cannot see any difference between the two hexes. One child is covered in boils and he sends him to the infirmary. Then despite the insistence of the other child's friends, he says he cannot see how either hex is worse than the other. Implication?Hermione should also go to the Infirmary. -- Hwyla
              • (Anonymous)
                It's an interesting idea that by "I see no difference," Severus meant that Hermione should go to the infirmary, not just that he thought both parties had hurt each other equally. Could work.

                "I see no difference" isn't in response to Harry and Ron shouting at Severus, though; Severus says that first, and they shout at him in response to it.

                But also... although Severus couldn't know, Harry draws his wand first. Draco starts the confrontation by showing off the "Potter Stinks" badges, and then insults Hermione, but Harry turns it into a physical/magical confrontation.

                Lynn
                • My $ 0.02

                  (Anonymous)
                  Here's the scene:

                  "Snape pointed a long yellow finger at Malfoy and said, "Explain."
                  "Potter attacked me, sir -"
                  "We attacked each other at the same time!" Harry shouted.
                  "- and he hit Goyle - look -"
                  Snape examined Goyle, whose face now resembled something that would have been at home in a book on poisonous fungi.
                  "Hospital wing, Goyle," Snape said calmly.
                  "Malfoy got Hermione!" Ron said. "Look!"
                  He forced Hermione to show Snape her teeth [snip]. Pansy Parkinson and the other Slytherin girls were doubled up with silent giggles, pointing at Hermione from behind Snape's back.
                  Snape looked coldly at Hermione, then said, "I see no difference.".
                  Hermione let out a whimper; her eyes filled with tears, she turned on her heel and ran, ran all the way up the corridor and out of sight.
                  It was lucky, perhaps, that both Harry and Ron started shouting at Snape at the same time; [snip] it was impossible for him to hear exactly what they were calling him. He got the gist, however.
                  "Let's see," he said, in his silkiest voice. "Fifty points from Gryffindor and a detention each for Potter and Weasley. Now get inside, or it'll be a week's worth of detentions."


                  Agreeing with Hwyla that the Slytherins know how to appear to advantage. Draco is telling the truth, just not all the truth. Harry did throw a nasty hex that hit Goyle with visible results. You're right that it's usually the Gryffindors who turn to violence first, which reasonably enough makes them look worse.

                  Snape doesn't go OTT at first. His reaction to seeing Goyle is restrained, even: hospital wing, no talk of detentions yet. But then Ron butts in, unasked, ordering him to look at Hermione while conspicuously not addressing him as 'sir'. I think Snape's 'cold' response means what it appears to mean, that Hermione already had enormous teeth. But it's aimed at Ron's rudeness. He's smacking Ron down by insulting his friend. It's spiteful and extremely unprofessional, but it's all of a piece with the Snape paradox. He's dead set on protecting his students -- which makes him a superior teacher by Hogwarts standards -- but only from physical harm. It wouldn't occur to him that hurting their feelings is a form of abuse.

                  As Hwyla says, Harry and Ron go out of their way to confirm Snape's low opinion of them. They have a right to be furious, but you can be righteously angry without acting like a chimp flinging poo. Not cursing at a teacher is as basic as not picking your nose at mealtimes, with the possible exception of some acute emergency on the lines of, "Goddammit, Snape, there's an army of Inferi in the Great Hall!"

                  -L
                  • Re: My $ 0.02

                    (Anonymous)
                    Interesting that Ron 'forces' Hermione to show her teeth. That means they were not so long that she couldn't hide them. So, are they really all that long if they can be hidden? Since you 'snipped' I can't tell - was she hiding them behind her hand or a book? IF behind a book, then yes they are bad, but otherwise then they really aren't to a point where they would hurt - unless they grow from the gums? Anyways - compared to those boils it doesn't sound so painful.

                    I still need to find the book and re-read. I distinctly remember discussing this elsewher and I thought there was something about the boys actually 'cussing' at Snape.... - Hwyla
                    • Re: My $ 0.02

                      (Anonymous)
                      Here's the full sentence:

                      "He forced Hermione to show Snape her teeth - she was doing her best to hide them with her hands, though this was difficult as they had now grown down past her collar."

                      For completeness, this is how it looks when the hex hits, on the page before Snape shows up:

                      "It wasn't a pretty sight. Hermione's front teeth -- already larger than average -- were now growing at an alarming rate; she was looking more and more like a beaver as her teeth elongated, past her bottom lip, towards her chin -- panic-stricken, she felt them, and let out a terrified cry."

                      Not painful, and probably less unpleasant than Goyle's fungus face. Evidently we're to infer that Hermione was already terribly insecure about her 'larger than average' teeth, and this is why the hex causes far more than the mild embarrassment we'd expect, above and beyond the normal teenage girl's self-consciousness about her appearance. It would be just like JKR to assume that Hermione's hangup about her (rarely even mentioned) buck teeth is so obvious, it doesn't need to be spelled out anywhere.

                      There's no doubt the boys were cursing Snape after Hermione ran off. That 'exactly what they were calling him' makes it obvious, imo.

                      "It was lucky, perhaps, that both Harry and Ron started shouting at Snape at the same time; lucky their voices echoed so much in the stone corridor, for in the confused din, it was impossible for him to hear exactly what they were calling him."

                      Like I said, a pair of chimps. I can sympathize with their anger, but not with the idea that obscenities and/or physical violence is the only brave, manly way to respond to a provocation.

                      -L
  • Very interesting thoughts on Severus's fears, including some I didn't think of in quite the same way before. Totally agree.

    I still haven't finished writing my essay due to being ensconced in fic writing (and it's getting a bit late for the essay now), so I'll just put a few ideas out there for now:

    I think that Severus might have had some PTSD regarding the Shrieking Shack and Lupin. During the Shrieking Shack confrontation scene in PoA, I think Severus's capslock rage is due in part to a gut feeling of fear just being in the Shack with Lupin (on a full moon, no less!) and Sirius (player of The Prank). There's a lot of hot button issues going on there, I think.

    I agree with the poster who said they believed Severus had a fear of failure...although I think for slightly different reasons. I think that Severus (while naturally talented and creative) worked very hard to be as accomplished as he was in whatever he did. (He seemed to have studied ahead in his textbooks since we see that his notes about spells in existence during 5th year (i.e. Levicorpus, Sectumsempra) are in a 6th/7th year textbook). So, I think his fear of failure is not due to believing it doesn't count because he doesn't have to try hard, but the opposite...if he were really talented he wouldn't have to work so hard (or so he might fear). Plus, Severus strikes me as a perfectionist, and perfectionists hate/fear failure on general principal.

    Those are my two knuts for now. ;)
    • I agree with you totally about the Shrieking Shack incident.

      Snape was securely hidden under the Invisibility Cloak, he could have easily stunned Lupin and Black from that cover before anybody knew what had hit them.

      Instead he was brave enough to face both of them, as you rightly said on the night of a full moon, as well, and denounce what they were doing, in order to save, as he thought, the students.

      Every action he takes, it seems to me thorughout the entire series, is brave, once one takes the trouble to look at it objectively, rather than as Ron and Harry et al seem to do, subjectively.

      Alison
    • Oh, he's definitely a perfectionist. And this tendency is only strengthened by just about every message he gets from the universe, in that every time he sets one foot wrong everything blows up in his face, badly, in a way he can never make right or take back. I think every time he's about to do something he's terrified deep down that he's about to fuck up and send everything to hell, again, and eventually he'll stop deserving second/third chances and nothing will be right ever again. So when he's contradicted or obstructed, he gets nasty and lashes out, because he feels like he's standing on the edge of a cliff and it could all go so badly so quickly, and this bleeding idiot is messing with him and
      [Error: Irreparable invalid markup ('<disobeying [...] orders<i/>') in entry. Owner must fix manually. Raw contents below.]

      Oh, he's definitely a perfectionist. And this tendency is only strengthened by just about every message he gets from the universe, in that every time he sets one foot wrong everything blows up in his face, badly, in a way he can never make right or take back. I think every time he's about to do something he's terrified deep down that he's about to fuck up and send everything to hell, again, and eventually he'll stop deserving second/third chances and nothing will be right ever again. So when he's contradicted or obstructed, he gets nasty and lashes out, because he feels like he's standing on the edge of a cliff and it could all go so badly so quickly, and this bleeding idiot is <i>messing with him</i> and <disobeying his strict orders<i/>, and <i>can't they see the problem here</i>!?

      Regardless of whether the actual circumstances are that bad externally; it's irrational.
      • It's a wonder he didn't crack during his year as headmaster with the fate of the WW riding on his shoulders, I meant to add.
    • Thanks for your two knuts! ^_^ And thanks also for that reminder about the Shrieking Shack incident--that would definitely have been one of Snape's fears. Funny that I'd forgotten about that, being a Snupin shipper--or maybe it's because I ship Snupin that I like to think he's gotten over that fear.

      I definitely agree about the fear of failure--and that's a great insight, that he might feel like a failure because he has to work hard at his studies, rather than having them come naturally. I seem to recall that James and Sirius treated their O.W.L. exam like it was a breeze, although I don't know whether they actually got good grades, and/or maybe they had studied hard for it but pretended that they didn't. Regardless of the truth, if it seemed to Snape like they did get good grades without having to work at it, that would probably increase his insecurity and fears.
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