InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "It's only time."

arbre_rieur (arbre_rieur) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-09-05 20:04:00

Entry tags:

creator: mark waid, creator: minck oosterveer, publisher: boom!, title: the unknown

The Unknown 3-4
The series about detectives who investigate the afterlife reaches the conclusion of its first story arc. We get some answers, as Cat and Doyle solve the case of who stole the box designed to measure a human soul.

Recap: Cat and Doyle are searching for a box designed to scientifically measure the human soul. It was stolen from its creators, and Cat's taken the case. While following leads, they were attacked by a faceless ninja monster.

Doyle recalls how the ghoul came up to him and whispered something in his ear. He doesn't tell Cat about that, though. All he says is:

The two manage to locate the stolen box.

Who lives there:

Inside, there's mainly lots of blackness. Also, a second, smaller door.

Jerk move, Doyle.

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	box_in_the_box 2009-09-06 04:20 am UTC (link)
	... What? I actually really liked this story, up until those last few panels, so ... what the fuck? (Reply to this) (Thread)

box_in_the_box
2009-09-06 04:27 am UTC (link)

And why would she suddenly wonder if it was all in her head, when his reactions of only a few seconds before clearly indicate that he's seeing the exact same shit that she is, which is precisely why he's warning her away? Goddammit, if you're going to pull away from giving us the reveal at the last second, at least do it in a way that doesn't require one or more of the characters to suddenly pick up an Idiot Ball!

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	blake_reitz 2009-09-06 04:31 am UTC (link)
	Well, it's the only way to keep her from opening the door, which (although they don't know it at the time) will cause a massive vortex to suck in everything around them. Also, Chalkfaceman was being kind of a dick to him earlier. And the only time we see Chalkfaceman without his wicked grin is right after this, when he has a wicked scowl... (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	box_in_the_box 2009-09-06 04:36 am UTC (link)
	I guess I just find it utterly disappointed whenever stories about the afterlife set themselves up as getting ready to give The Big Answer, and then just fucking pussy out of it. Waid is far from alone in engaging in this practice, but with rare exceptions, I feel like you shouldn't ask questions like this unless you're going to at least attempt an answer. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	blake_reitz 2009-09-06 04:39 am UTC (link)
	That's fair. We might yet find out, seeing as the next arc involves a dead angel. I suspect that any glimpse of the afterlife will be teased out until Waid gets tired of the series and does the final story. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

box_in_the_box
2009-09-06 04:45 am UTC (link)

This is ongoing? I thought it was just a miniseries.

Shit, I don't know what that makes this better or worse ... after all, I remember how poorly The X-Files did with their Big Reveals in the end.

And maybe I've just read (and seen) too many stories like this, but I've literally lost count of the number of times when the explorers into the unknown have had their hands on The Last Door, ready to open it, and AT THAT EXACT MOMENT, suddenly decided, "Maybe, this isn't something that we're READY to know yet." At which point, I scream at the book and/or screen, "FUCK YOU, YOU PIECE OF SHIT, BECAUSE THE ONLY REASON I FOLLOWED YOU ON THIS FUCKING JOURNEY WAS TO FIND OUT THE ANSWER, SO I DON'T GIVE A SHIT IF IT SPELLS CERTAIN DOOM FOR YOUR CHARACTER, BECAUSE YOUR STORY OWES ME SOME ANSWERS!!!"

Not that I am bitter. :)

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	blake_reitz 2009-09-06 04:46 am UTC (link)
	Not at all! :) (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	box_in_the_box 2009-09-06 04:53 am UTC (link)
	That being said? As I say, there are exceptions to this rule. For instance, The Mothman Prophecies was so powerful precisely because it treated its mysteries as unsolvable. Then again, it was also based on a real-life case, so ... (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	blake_reitz 2009-09-06 05:03 am UTC (link)
	Yeah, things based on real-life strangeness really looses a lot when they "solve" the mystery. If Richard Gere has just been like "My god! Mothman is from the future, and he's here to warn us all!", well, that would have sucked. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	box_in_the_box 2009-09-06 05:05 am UTC (link)
	I really do need to do a blog post about that movie sometime. In so many ways, it's the movie about real-life unexplained phenomena that gets it RIGHT. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	blake_reitz 2009-09-06 05:10 am UTC (link)
	The first (and only) time I saw that movie, I had been up for three days straight, and was convinced it was one of the most intense things I had seen. I never watched it again, for fear that I had deluded the effectiveness of the film. So I'm glad to hear that it got things right! (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

box_in_the_box
2009-09-06 05:17 am UTC (link)

Speaking as a student of IRL "X-Files," the movie takes extensive liberties with the reported facts of the case, but ironically enough, in so doing, it conveys the SPIRIT of the whole affair that much better. It helps that Richard Gere, Laura Linney, Will Patton and Alan Bates all deliver excellent performances, as characters who are all suffering from some degree of PTSD, and the visuals and soundtrack are so rich that they practically qualify as their OWN character.

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abbadie
2009-09-06 06:01 am UTC (link)

As a tarot reader, I once got a woman whom I made an ordinary reading, which curiously included that she needed to focus on the future. When I was finished, she demanded to know why I hadn't told her about how death haunted her (those were her words). She then told me her long life story about how her first son died as a child, her older daughter died five years before, and her remaining daughter died on the anniversary of her sister's death, to the day. She had frequent dreams and visions at her home, and lots of so-called mediums (after leeching her cash) gave her messages from her children and assured her that death stalked her each day.

I listened to her, knowing that she had come merely to hear what she wanted to hear, to feed her fears and tragic fantasies... and when she was finished, I told her to get the movie The Mothman Prophecies and watch it as many times as she liked, until she realized why her situation and Richard Gere's plight were alike, and that she faced the same choice that he did at the end of the film. She left straight for Blockbuster, and I really hope she got the message. What else could I do?

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	box_in_the_box 2009-09-06 06:41 am UTC (link)
	Interesting that you were able to diagnose her need to move on into the future BEFORE she told you how much she was living in the past. And rarely does a movie simultaneously pique one's curiosity AND encourage them to leave well enough alone. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

abbadie
2009-09-06 08:13 am UTC (link)

That's what makes it not only fascinating, but, I think, a very real warning of the true dangers of diving into forteana without restraint; I've seen it too often, in people I know. The dangers are not abductions or hexes, but quite plainly, losing sight of oneself's reality.

I like it when people stay silent during a Tarot reading because that way I won't be accused of drawing all the information from them; but straightforward questions, of course, are far easier to handle. But when I encounter such an awful case, I just can't remain detached; it's easy to understand her onbession after such tragic sinchronicities (forgot to mention that the daughters died on the birthday of the first son, if I remember right).

I'm creeped out by the girl detective's face when she says, "we solved the case". She looks insane; but then, so did the obsessed guy on the movie when he was perpetually on the verge of getting his phantom answers.

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	box_in_the_box 2009-09-06 04:37 am UTC (link)
	And it still doesn't explain why SUDDENLY, at that EXACT moment, she started questioning herself, much less why she believed his patently obvious LIE of an answer. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Still playing Devil's advocate.

blake_reitz
2009-09-06 04:44 am UTC (link)

IMO, she suddenly realized that she didn't WANT to know the answer, that she didn't want to die, and that's why she started outspokenly questioning herself. Note how she switches from know-it-all super detective mode to completely terrified. She was looking for an excuse not to believe her own eyes, and the guy gave her justification.

My question! What the heck is up with her insane cleavage this entire series? I mean, Siberia's kinda cold this time of year.

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Re: Still playing Devil's advocate.

box_in_the_box
2009-09-06 04:54 am UTC (link)

Possibly, although I'd prefer that explanation to appear a bit more explicitly on the page, if only out of respect for her character's intelligence, because otherwise, it comes dangerously close to looking like the world's greatest detective had her brain fall out, so that Waid could engage in his unfortunately common trope of having the previously independent woman get Sorted Out by the stoic male who's been putting up with her shit (Superman and Wonder Woman in Kingdom Come, Steve and Sharon in Captain America ...).

And it probably says a lot about me that I didn't even notice how improbable her cleavage was until you pointed it out. ;)

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: Still playing Devil's advocate.

blake_reitz
2009-09-06 05:09 am UTC (link)

I'm not really sure where I see that trope in Kingdom Come (as it's Wonder Woman who keeps dragging Superman into action, both at the beginning, and the final battle), although I can totally see it with Steve and Sharon *.

* I've been thinking about making a Waid's Cap post for a while, since so many of the themes going on in Captain America right now are echoed in Waid's run: Cap dead, un-super-solider-serum'd, brought back by Red Skull's evil plans, disembodied Red Skull, etc.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: Still playing Devil's advocate.

box_in_the_box
2009-09-06 05:14 am UTC (link)

Where I see it is in the ideological conflict, with Wonder Woman's pro-fascist agenda (that's not hyperbole, either, since she openly states at one point that she's willing to cross "a fascist line" to stop the new breed of anti-heroes, which is not only horribly OOC for her, but also shows that she doesn't understand that she's becoming like her enemies, whose own fascist methods are precisely what the old-guard heroes supposedly oppose in principle). As one poster online put it, "Wonder Woman in Kingdom Come is a clueless man's idea of what a 'strong woman' is like."

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	Re: Still playing Devil's advocate. arilou_skiff 2009-09-06 02:02 pm UTC (link)
	Most of the time I tend to prefer subtext to text: If you actually have to go out and say what you mean, you're doing it wrong. Although I'll admit that most authors probably aren't good enough to convey a message without stating it explicitly, and that it's better they do that than risk miss the point. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	Re: Still playing Devil's advocate. thandrak 2009-09-06 05:28 am UTC (link)
	I quite agree with this. As a... not unintelligent person, I find myself getting closest to panic right when I'm about to push the button to make something happen, first and finally. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	Re: Still playing Devil's advocate. cleome45 2009-09-06 07:50 pm UTC (link)
	Because we're stoopid and can't even remember our names most of the time, y'know. If comics didn't constantly remind us that ZOMFG chicks have BOOBS11, we might forget this most important of reasons to let chicks and their essence-draining menace into fiction. :/ (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Re: Still playing Devil's advocate. blake_reitz 2009-09-07 04:41 am UTC (link)
	Wait, chicks have BOOBS11? checks panel Huh. Apparently. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	ashtoreth 2009-09-06 05:46 am UTC (link)
	The female detective is way too cutesy for me. And the way she dismissed reality because it didn't fit her facts without more investigation (assuming there wasn't some unshown) is hardly a sign of either intelligence or scientific method. This is a know-it-all pinup girl who finds wisdom when she allows herself to be vulnerable. :P (Reply to this) (Thread)

	box_in_the_box 2009-09-06 06:45 am UTC (link)
	[...] when she allows herself to be vulnerable. See, THIS, THIS is the thing I dislike about Waid's portrayals of "strong women," because ultimately, they ALL have to have this moment, in his stories, when the same standard hardly applies to his strong men. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	taggerung301 2009-09-06 02:22 pm UTC (link)
	that ghoul guy . . . so fucking creepy o_O (Reply to this) (Thread)

	bruinsfan 2009-09-06 11:55 pm UTC (link)
	It's like a reanimated Ronald Reagan wearing the haircut of Klarion the Witch Boy. (Reply to this) (Parent)

psychop_rex
2009-09-08 04:06 am UTC (link)

Powerful stuff. I'm not sure whether I agree with James's actions or not.
One of my personal philosophies is that a good deal of the mysteries of the universe are intended to STAY mysteries - that even if you penetrated one of them and learned one of the Great Truths that man has been struggling with since the dawn of time, all it would ultimately lead to would be another mystery. For example, what if you learned that there IS an afterlife, but it's only what you would call a sort of second stage to things, and that in the afterlife you can still die? What would happen to you - would you go to the after-afterlife? Would you reincarnate? See, this leads to a whole new chain of questions, on and on into infinity - and while you eventually might find someone who knew the answers, they would only know SOME of them. The universe is made of mysteries, and one would have to spend uncountable millions of years to uncover all of them, or even most of them.
Therefore, perhaps what James is doing is valid. Perhaps solving this mystery would only make things worse, or complicate things to an endless degree. Perhaps, having solved the mystery of the afterlife, you can never enter it - or first you have to solve a second riddle that mankind has never even conceived of, and that she couldn't possibly solve in the time she has left.
That being said, however, were I there, I'd be damn pissed off if someone stopped me from opening the door. Curiosity may have killed the cat, but at least he learned somethind first.

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