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Tweak says, "Chutney ferret"

colonel_green (colonel_green) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-06-24 13:49:00

Entry tags:

char: hercules/marvel, char: pluto, char: zeus/marvel, creator: fred van lente, creator: greg pak, creator: ryan stegman, publisher: marvel comics, title: incredible hercules

Just in time for Father's Day!

Four scans from Incredible Hercules #130.

So Herc and Amadeus are in Hades, where Pluto, Lord of the Dead, is, per his remit under the original compact with Zeus and Poseidon, judging the dead. Despite the fact that the Ares miniseries was published like 4+ years ago (at least a year in MU time), he's only now getting around to Zeus (maybe they're as backed up in Hell as the regular court systems are; they should at least try for a dismissal based on habeas corpus grounds).

Witnesses for the prosecution include Cronus, Typhon, and, somewhat inexplicably, Semele (as she herself points out, if Pluto were looking for one of Zeus' conquests to testify against him, she's a bizarrely bad choice). Anyway, Zeus decides to represent himself (mistake; I'm sure Hades is full of good lawyers):

It's the mortal Herc, the part that ended up in Hades after Zeus stripped it away and brought the divine Herc to Olympus. And he's pretty pissed.

I've thought for a while that Athena's master plan here must involve putting Hercules in charge of the Pantehon instead of Hera (the whole "Sacred Invasion" arc, for example, where she insisted on him leading the mission and kept what would have been the main alternative, Thor, out of the proceedings). The conversation at the end of the third page would seem to suggest that is what she has in mind. That also tallies with the famous Bob Layton minis in the 1980s, which ended with Herc heading off to found a new dynasty of gods.

Oh, and this series has a TV Tropes entry now; go nuts.

(Post a new comment)

	sherkahn 2009-06-24 12:09 pm UTC (link)
	Wow, two great posts of Zeus being a dick. (Reply to this)

	bluefall 2009-06-24 12:19 pm UTC (link)
	Pak and Van Lente get the Olympians so damn well. Every issue of this series just feels so EPIC, in the truest, most absolute sense of the word. Also, I've fallen completely in love with Aegis, and Herc getting centaur blood on Zemo's face is an instant classic. (Reply to this)

	thandrak 2009-06-24 12:46 pm UTC (link)
	You know, there's a roleplaying game that, on a good day, is a lot like this. Yes, it's by White Wolf, but don't worry so much. It's called Scion, and it's about being a modern day child of a god. It's pretty awesome when you get in the head of it. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	ex_menagerie993 2009-06-24 05:18 pm UTC (link)
	I think you and I have had a very short conversation about this game before on this very community related to this very series. Funny that :D (Reply to this) (Parent)

	freezer818 2009-06-24 12:49 pm UTC (link)
	But... But... Zeus his a jolly old Dumbldore-esqe mentor! Disney told me so! (Reply to this) (Thread)

	unknownscribler 2009-06-24 01:20 pm UTC (link)
	Disney has a habit of reforming and sanctifying rapists and murderers. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	majingojira 2009-06-24 01:41 pm UTC (link)
	MOTTO! (Reply to this) (Parent)

	colonel_green 2009-06-24 01:45 pm UTC (link)
	Such as? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

ex_stig213
2009-06-24 02:10 pm UTC (link)

'Ursula', who in Hans Christian Andersen's story orchestrates the destruction of all of the Mermaids, effectively destroying the bloodline of the royal mer-family.

Cinderella's stepmother, who in the original story forces her daughters to mutilate themselves in order to fit the shoe; also, Cinderella herself, who gets her pet doves to attack her stepsisters and rip out their eyes.

Hercules. As shown by Pak, he is a known warmonger, criminal, drunk, etc.; only, Pak is able to make us empathise with him and his cause. Even the above example demonstrates that he is capable of change.

Claude Frollo...actually, think they made him slightly worse than the original. Certainly, much creepier.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	colonel_green 2009-06-24 02:14 pm UTC (link)
	All of those save Herc are just toning down villains (except with Frollo, who's way more evil in the movie then in the book); none of them got reformed or sanctified. Not to mention they're fictional characters to begin with. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	espanolbot 2009-06-24 02:22 pm UTC (link)
	John Smith too, technically. What him being a middle aged guy and his love interest being a 12 year old girl. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	colonel_green 2009-06-24 02:25 pm UTC (link)
	Even if that whole story wasn't just some bullshit of Smith's, they had different ideas about suitable ages for romantic relationships. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ex_stig213 2009-06-24 03:40 pm UTC (link)
	Oh, and don't forget Jafar, who - as Ja'afar - was actually the sane voice of reason towards the Caliph in many Arabian Nights. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	colonel_green 2009-06-24 03:48 pm UTC (link)
	He was a conflation of two characters; and again, fictional, and not sanctified or reformed. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	petalsinthewind 2009-06-24 09:49 pm UTC (link)
	I haven't seen that "Little Mermaid". The one I read just ended with the witch giving the sisters and grandmother a chance to save the protagonist, who chose to die instead of killing the prince and his new wife. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	majingojira 2009-06-24 01:25 pm UTC (link)
	I'm so pleased! This is the first time I've seena Zeus without a white beard! It makes me giggle with joy! Technically, he is the youngest of his primary family/pantheon afterall... (Reply to this)

	vitruvian23 2009-06-24 01:58 pm UTC (link)
	Hmmm... do all of those folks on the jury actually believe in Zeus as the One True God, or does his, 'you won't have God to kick around anymore' defense kind of fall flat for all the Christians, Jews, etc., etc.? Or, just as Hades (the place) looks to them like whatever they expected the afterlife to be, do they see Zeus as their conception of God? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	sir_razorback 2009-06-24 04:17 pm UTC (link)
	I think it's mainly perception and point-of-view. (Reply to this) (Parent)

ex_stig213
2009-06-24 02:02 pm UTC (link)

I find it interesting that Marvel-Zeus is drawn to physically resemble the Eternal Zuras. Based on the suggestion of Neil Gaiman's "Eternals" that the Eternals themselves created the ideas of each pantheon of Gods through their actions, isn't it probable that all of the various Marvel Gods are merely ideas brought about solely by belief mixed with a muddled memory of the Eternals, so that essentially the Eternals themselves could negate the existence of Zeus, Osiris, etc.?

It'd make a hell of a story, that's for certain.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

colonel_green
2009-06-24 02:13 pm UTC (link)

Zeus appeared like this before the Eternals were created; and both he and Zuras were co/created by Jack Kirby, hence, the design similarity.

One of the more interesting cases of Eternals-design influencing the way characters are drawn is with Athena. Athena's Eternals counterpart is blonde-haired and green-eyed, but MU Athena usually isn't drawn that way; in "The Eternals Saga" in Thor back in the 70s, she appears in one issue with brown hair (the way she's usually thought of in western art), and then, when the Greeks and the Eternals come to blows, she's suddenly switched to blonde, presumably when the artist realized they should probably look alike. Incredible Herc's Athena is blonde and green-eyed as well, for the same reason.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	bruinsfan 2009-06-25 06:19 pm UTC (link)
	I'm still not so sure about the green-eyed part, as Mikaboshi specifically questioned if her eyes were always that color. I won't be at all surprised if she turns out to be someone else entirely. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	colonel_green 2009-06-25 06:33 pm UTC (link)
	I wondered about that, but since nobody seemed to have an issue with it (Herc didn't seem phased by it in the slightest, nor did Cho; in Cho's case, though he didn't know her beforehand, presumably he'd have asked Herc about it), I tend to doubt it. She seems to have green eyes in the flashbacks to ancient times too. (Reply to this) (Parent)