InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "Steve French!"

Doop (xdoop) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-06-10 23:36:00

Entry tags:

char: snapper carr, creator: dennis o'neil, creator: dick dillin, creator: murphy anderson, group: justice league of america, publisher: dc comics, title: justice league of america

Snapper Carr: The Judas Contract

This is from Justice League of America #77, by Denny O'Neil and Dick Dillin. The cover is by Murphy Anderson.

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	thanekos 2009-06-10 10:55 pm UTC (link)
	... subtler material than i'd expect the joker to go for. oh well. (Reply to this) (Thread)

crinosg
2009-06-10 11:01 pm UTC (link)

I don't know, I see it kind of like Puck disguising himself as dull as dishwater Owen from Gargoyles.

Joker is a lot of things; a harmless trickster, a deranged killer, an incomprehensible force of chaos, but never a straight man.

A fact that he was secretly running a hate group that singles out people who aren't "average", when the Joker is the most abnormal person in the room, is probably hilarious to him.

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	jlroberson 2009-06-10 11:05 pm UTC (link)
	But at the same time, it seems they could have plugged any number of villains into the end, doesn't it? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	crinosg 2009-06-10 11:12 pm UTC (link)
	Point taken, maybe they had a dart board set up for these sort of unmaskings, with other possible villains being Lex Luthor, Felix Faust, Dr. Destiny, or Amos Fortune. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	aaron_bourque 2009-06-11 01:46 am UTC (link)
	Welcome to the Silver Age. Do not pass "Go," do not collect $200. Of course, the same could be said for many a hero, at this time, too. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	sistermagpie 2009-06-11 08:37 am UTC (link)
	Yup. (Reply to this) (Parent)

jlroberson
2009-06-10 11:04 pm UTC (link)

Well, it does explain, however, why the Joker would allow such a lame tactic as unmasking to work, because he's wearing yet another mask(my that must get hot; ever try to breathe in just one?) and because it gives him a chance to cause some chaos. And get a compliment from his darling Batman.

Because had I been this "John Dough," I'd have simply said I was Batman, that the other man was an imposter, and as they're both masked maybe he should take his off. I mean, think about it.

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	fungo_squiggly 2009-06-10 11:11 pm UTC (link)
	John Dough? Smooth, Joker. Real smooth. Except that despite what Batman says that clearly isn't the Joker. Wrong MO, for one thing (except maybe for the flowers). And after all, would the real Joker just stand there silently? I say that asinine, fixed rictus on his face is actually just another mask. Most likely this guy is actually Glorious Godfrey. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	aaron_bourque 2009-06-11 01:42 am UTC (link)
	This was back during the 60s/early 70s, before Joker returned to his truly homicidal tendencies. Remember that internet gag of the Joker stealing a kid's report card, and his gleeful "I've made someone cry!" That was the Joker we're dealing with here. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	qob 2009-06-10 11:24 pm UTC (link)
	stories like this are why I made mine marvel during the Silver Age. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	jlroberson 2009-06-10 11:39 pm UTC (link)
	You and everyone else. The glorious DC Silver Age. Sheesh. Some of the most retarded storytelling in comics. And this is Denny O'Neil, for god's sake! (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Mod hat rabican 2009-06-11 04:09 am UTC (link)
	Please don't use ableist terms like "retarded" here at s_d. Thanks! (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Re: Mod hat jlroberson 2009-06-11 07:08 am UTC (link)
	My apologies, no offense intended. I'll be more precise. Some of the most slipshod, needlessly convoluted, dashed-off plot device multiple orgasms passing for storytelling that ever degraded and lobotomized comics, much as Hanna-Barbera did cartoons. Now that's offensive but for the correct reasons. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: Mod hat

psychop_rex
2009-06-11 11:29 pm UTC (link)

Oh, honestly, don't be hatin'. The Silver Age was far from the happy comics wonderland that some writers seem to think it was, 'tis true, but it also came up with a good deal of memorable characters, interesting set-ups, and humorous nonsense, not to mention defining a good deal of the backstory of the DCU up 'til the present day. I'm not saying it was perfect, but without it we wouldn't have Zatanna, Batgirl, the Green Lantern Corps, Swamp Thing, the Floronic Man, Poison Ivy, the JLA, the Riddler, the Legion of Superheroes, Dial H for Hero, Adam Strange, the Planet Thanagar, Supergirl, etc., etc. The storytelling may not have always been up to modern standards, but without the Silver Age, a lot of what we think of when we think of comics would simply not be there. (Although, to tell the truth, I generally prefer the Golden Age, but that's another story.)

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	Re: Mod hat jlroberson 2009-06-12 02:10 am UTC (link)
	Oh, I'm not disputing it as a SOURCE of ideas, much like dirt and other crap can fertilize a fine tree. But looked at objectively, the fact is that DC in the Silver Age is an example of how much damage the code could do. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Re: Mod hat psychop_rex 2009-06-12 02:27 am UTC (link)
	I think it had more to do with the influence of various editors over the writers than the code itself - Marvel had to deal with exactly the same things, after all, and they turned out very differently, as did other comics companies. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: Mod hat

jlroberson
2009-06-12 05:03 am UTC (link)

Marvel did not have the same deep relationship to the governance of the Code as DC, or Goldwater Publications(Archie), had. Didn't get to write some of the rules, for instance, including banning words that eliminated many competitor's titles. (As an analogy, suppose DC could have banned the words "mutant" or the letter "X" from being on a cover in 1980. That's kind of what happened to EC) And even more importantly, DC owned the main distribution apparatus, thus able to limit the number of titles Marvel and others could put out, which is the reason so many characters had to share books with others.

Marvel was therefore forever testing the edges of those rules to weaken them, particularly once DC no longer could limit their titles. Point is, when you're talking about DC and the Code(or Archie and the Code), you're not at all talking the same power relationship.

This, however, especially

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Re: Mod hat

psychop_rex
2009-06-12 04:16 pm UTC (link)

OK, so DC was a much more powerful entity than its competitors when it came to the code. I confess, I did not know that. Still, I think the influence of various editors had quite a lot to do with the general 'house styles', as it were, because if you look at them analytically, you can see the fingerprints of these guys all over them. Mort Weisinger, for instance - the man ruled over the Super-titles with an iron fist; you can see his influence on them a mile away. He was a misogynist creep who, it was later discovered, actually really hated the Superman character, and the stories written under his editorship are filled to bursting with condescending and unpleasant attitudes about women and situations where Supes loses his powers, gets humiliated, or is otherwise diminished or degraded somehow. Then there was another guy (I THINK it was Robert Kanigher, but I won't swear to that) who was very fond of the cover-first method - that is, he had the cover artists come up with an interesting image with a good 'hook' to it - for example, the one where Green Lantern is selling power rings on the street - then he'd hand out the covers to the writers working under him and say 'there - build a story around that!' And so on - if you look at the output of DC through most of the Silver Age, you can generally say 'oh - this was written under such-and-such'. I therefore continue to assert that the editors had more to do with the Silver Age style of writing than the Code did - the Code limited what they could do, of course, but the editors shaped what they DID do.

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	surlytmpl 2009-06-10 11:48 pm UTC (link)
	Batman and the Atom performing at a charity event? The mind goes to some very strange places. (Reply to this)

	volksjager 2009-06-11 12:48 am UTC (link)
	Please no more Snapper carr.... (Reply to this) (Thread)

	crinosg 2009-06-11 01:08 am UTC (link)
	Don't worry, he got kicked off the team after this and pretty much disappeared till he became robot Hourman's wacky sidekick (I think, don't quote me. I do know it was after this Snapper left the JLA, which is why I requested it). (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	jlroberson 2009-06-11 01:53 am UTC (link)
	And I think it was all just so Denny O'Neil could get the hell rid of Snapper Carr, and I cannot question that. He could have betrayed the Justice League to the Ten-Eyed Man and I'd still approve just on principle alone. (Rick Jones is different for some reason. I've always kind of wanted to write a mini about him) (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

crinosg
2009-06-11 10:30 am UTC (link)

Maybe cause Rick wasn't such an obnoxiously forced concept.

I mean with Rick it makes sense; he was basically this teen drifter, Banner saved his life and became the Hulk, so he felt obligated to follow him around and help out any way he could.

But Snapper, there is no reason the world a teenage boy should hang around the headquarters of the worlds greatest super heroes, especially when he has a home and family of his own.

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aaron_bourque
2009-06-11 01:45 am UTC (link)

I remember seeing a synopsis of this once, basically "How did Snapper Carr get kicked out of the Justice League. He betrayed everyone . . . to the Joker!" but better written. I even think there was a picture to go with it, but I'm blanking. Essentially, it made me think this story must be seriously fucking AWESOME.

This . . . is not seriously fucking awesome. I want my mind's eye image made real!

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	jlroberson 2009-06-11 01:54 am UTC (link)
	And like most 60s Jokers OH MY GOD THAT LOOKS AWFUL (Reply to this) (Parent)

	crinosg 2009-06-11 10:27 am UTC (link)
	I think that was at comics101, which is where I first learned of this story. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	jlroberson 2009-06-11 01:56 am UTC (link)
	Final page scares me more I look at it. Next to last panel: look at the orange space carefully. Make sense of Batman's place in same. Last panel: the Joker's tongue. Somewhere between that panel and this, Batman pulled out his jaw and there's the skin, hanging loose. That's pretty fucking hardcore, Batman. (Reply to this)

	queen_marshed 2009-06-11 07:32 am UTC (link)
	Who the heck is Snapper Carr and why the hell is he so annoying? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	jlroberson 2009-06-11 08:22 am UTC (link)
	He's this teenager who has a flying car and hangs out with the Justice League and is DC's idea of what teenagers are like and he...snaps. Much as I do whenever he pops up. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	crinosg 2009-06-11 10:26 am UTC (link)
	Basically Snapper is what happens when old comic writers try and write characters that are supposed to connect with "the young people" without having anything even resembling a clue on how "the young people" act. I mean my God, I bet he was obnoxious even back in the 50's. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	jlroberson 2009-06-11 07:36 am UTC (link)
	(Reply to this) (Thread)

	sistermagpie 2009-06-11 08:39 am UTC (link)
	ROTFL! (Reply to this) (Parent)

	jkcarrier 2009-06-11 08:39 am UTC (link)
	Think of all the time Batman wasted, trying to come up with contingency plans for taking out the JLA, when all it really takes is a pissed-off Snapper. Truly, Snap is the baddest mofo in the DC Universe. :D (Reply to this)