InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "Tweak should talk to Jabby"

proteus_lives (proteus_lives) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-10-14 23:45:00

Current location:	Outer Dark
Entry tags:	creator: george perez, creator: kurt busiek, publisher: dc comics, publisher: marvel comics, title: avengers/jla

Captain America vs. Batman! Vote for the winner!
Greetings True Believers! I've posted a poll and discussion over at No Scans_Daily for the weekly "Who could win in fight?" post. Cap vs. Bats! Who wins in your mind! Come and vote or state your case! And as a treat, I present the Cap/Bat face-off scene from the wonderful JLA/Avengers mini from Busiek and Perez. Enjoy!

Link:
http://community.livejournal.com/noscans_daily/176535.html

Such a tease!!! I wanted them to fight so bad!

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	ravenous_raven 2009-10-15 03:57 am UTC (link)
	Batman all the way. If they were mind-controlled, he'd fight dirty to win. From my scant knowledge of Captain America, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't. (Reply to this)

	yaseen101 2009-10-15 04:00 am UTC (link)
	Batman, because he cheats. I'm talking about Pre-BatGod Batman by the way. (Reply to this)

	pyrotwilight 2009-10-15 04:01 am UTC (link)
	It's amazingly hard to say. In a physical match I'd usually say Cap but apparently he knows ninjay moves as well since he taught Clink who has become Ronin. But in a regular fight it'd almost have to be Bats considering as he showed with Karate Kid, he fights DIRTY. (Reply to this) (Thread)

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lawrence_live, 2009-10-15 11:02 pm UTC

	magus_69 2009-10-15 04:01 am UTC (link)
	Either one of them could beat the other. My concern would be how the fight would go. There are only two plausible scenarios. Either one suckers the other, or it's a long, drawn-out struggle that leaves the victor too damaged to fight anymore. (Reply to this) (Thread)

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va1tyr, 2009-10-15 10:49 am UTC

	xammax 2009-10-15 04:02 am UTC (link)
	I have to say. Batman, even Pre-God Batman, would cheat, use his environment more, and is just damn smarter then Cap. Physically Batman can keep up with him, the belt is way better then the shield, especially in this one on one style; in the end Batman would cheat his way to victory. (Reply to this) (Thread)

Where is this "Cap always plays fair" coming from? -

nefrekeptah, 2009-10-15 06:08 am UTC

Re: Where is this "Cap always plays fair" coming from? -

va1tyr, 2009-10-15 11:16 am UTC

Re: Where is this "Cap always plays fair" coming from? -

goblinthebamf, 2009-10-15 06:08 pm UTC

	ravenous_raven 2009-10-15 04:06 am UTC (link)
	so we (mostly) all agree Bat would win because he's a cheater? that's right kids, go ahead and cheat, The Batman does it! XD (Reply to this) (Thread)

I'm not sure that would be enough for Bats. -

proteus_lives, 2009-10-15 04:10 am UTC

Re: I'm not sure that would be enough for Bats. -

parsimonia, 2009-10-15 10:08 am UTC

Re: I'm not sure that would be enough for Bats. -

va1tyr, 2009-10-15 10:51 am UTC

Re: I'm not sure that would be enough for Bats. -

wizardru, 2009-10-15 12:26 pm UTC

Re: I'm not sure that would be enough for Bats. -

proteus_lives, 2009-10-15 04:35 pm UTC

Re: I'm not sure that would be enough for Bats. -

queenrikki, 2009-10-15 08:20 pm UTC

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blakeyrat, 2009-10-15 04:23 am UTC

	auggie18 2009-10-15 04:12 am UTC (link)
	Gotta give this one to Steve. Why? Batman will fight at night, as is his wont. Little does he know that the night belongs to CAPWOLF! In all seriousness, Batman would win, because Cap doesn't fight dirty. Well, 616 Captain doesn't anyway. (Reply to this)

	neuhallidae 2009-10-15 04:40 am UTC (link)
	Ultimates = Cap wins because he fights even dirtier than Bats. 616 = They draw. MA = Cap cheerily talks him out of fighting and they go get sammiches. (Reply to this) (Thread)

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lieut_kettch, 2009-10-15 06:27 am UTC

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neuhallidae, 2009-10-15 06:29 am UTC

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va1tyr, 2009-10-15 11:33 am UTC

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proteus_lives, 2009-10-15 07:11 am UTC

	shanejayell 2009-10-15 04:49 am UTC (link)
	Batman. Steve, even if he's not thinking about it, sees himself as a symbol of america and fights fair. Batman wants to scare the crap out of people and win at almost any cost. (Reply to this)

	That's Easy. nefrekeptah 2009-10-15 05:22 am UTC (link)
	Cap all the way. He's literally the pinnacle of physical health and ability, and he's one of the greatest fighters in the Marvel U. The guy has dodged bullets on numerous occasions - well, Steve has, anyway. Bucky Cap vs. Batman would be a very different fight, I'd imagine. (Reply to this)

	schala_kid 2009-10-15 05:46 am UTC (link)
	It depends the situation and the circumstances they are both evenly match. And who says Cap doesn't fight dirty, Steve is an honorable man but in a life and death situation or to save a friend or innocent civilian Steve would cheat or fight dirty. (Reply to this)

	tsunamiwombat 2009-10-15 06:50 am UTC (link)
	Batman himself admits in the comic Captain America would win. "You could CONCEIVABLY beat me" is how Batman admits defeat. Because he's the goddamn Batman. (Reply to this)

	chains_of_irony 2009-10-15 08:05 am UTC (link)
	Um, check out the Marvel Vs. DC series - Batman DOES win. It was obvious, really. (Reply to this) (Thread)

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jmacq1, 2009-10-15 10:46 am UTC

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mrbear, 2009-10-15 11:59 am UTC

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chains_of_irony, 2009-10-15 12:14 pm UTC

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jmacq1, 2009-10-15 12:45 pm UTC

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chains_of_irony, 2009-10-15 01:00 pm UTC

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chains_of_irony, 2009-10-15 01:01 pm UTC

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jmacq1, 2009-10-15 01:49 pm UTC

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chains_of_irony, 2009-10-15 03:01 pm UTC

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jmacq1, 2009-10-15 03:59 pm UTC

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ninjapeps, 2009-10-15 11:25 am UTC

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chains_of_irony, 2009-10-15 01:06 pm UTC

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jmacq1, 2009-10-15 01:52 pm UTC

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chains_of_irony, 2009-10-15 02:58 pm UTC

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jmacq1, 2009-10-15 03:54 pm UTC

sianmink
2009-10-15 08:29 am UTC (link)

Well, the longer the fight is, the better it is for Cap. He has superhuman endurance and recovery. AS long as he can stay standing, he can wear Batman down. Steve has a physical advantage. Bruce's training can't match the SSS optimized speed, strength and agility of Cap. Cap's mind is also very quick, if not as smart as Bruce, he's at least as mentally agile and adaptable. Surprise is a tool that Batman needs to take full advantage of.

That said, Batman can more easily change up his fighting style and do unexpected things, once he figures out Steve is reading his attacks, he'll shift style and try something different. It just seems it would be so hard for him to strike a knockout blow, and the longer the fight goes on, the more his advantage dwindles.

I really think it's a toss-up, provided they were both somehow forced to fight to a conclusion, whereas otherwise it would likely end as it did above.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

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404glitch, 2009-10-15 11:19 am UTC

	kagome654 2009-10-15 09:24 am UTC (link)
	Cap, because I'd like to see Batman get his butt kicked. I think that's as good of reason as any. (Reply to this)

jmacq1
2009-10-15 10:50 am UTC (link)

Captain America, by the narrowest of margins.

Anyone thinking "fighting dirty" gives Batman some kind of advantage is pretty much completely ignoring that Captain America fights people that "fight dirty" all the time. The difference being those people are usually trying to kill him, and Batman absolutely will not.

Cap has superior physical attributes, virtually unlimited endurance, and experience in his favor.

The only way Batman could take the win is if it takes place in Gotham at night. Batman would have to use superior knowledge of the terrain and push his stealth to the maximum to have a chance. He'll also have to end the fight quickly, as noted above...the longer it goes, the more it falls in Cap's favor due to superior endurance.

Pretty much anywhere else? Cap takes it. Not easily, and not without plenty of cuts and bruises himself, but he takes it.

(Reply to this)

joseph_k101
2009-10-15 11:52 am UTC (link)

I'm going with this under ComicBookResources Rumbles rules because they are the best rules to go by.

Working on the assumption that Cap has his shield and Bats has his utility belt, I'd go with Batman by a small margin. The belt contains grenades, sonics, projectile weapons, sedatives and a whole host of other things that Batman has proven he's more than capable of deploying mid-fight. Cap is deadly with the shield and would be able to take a very solid minority of the fights, 4/10 to give number, but the belt is too versetile in my opinion. Bats techs his way to victory.

Conversely: In straight up hand to hand, Cap takes Batman. Stronger, possibly slightly faster, unlimited stamina and just as much experience and skill. Even if he can't find a way to put Batman down, which I have every faith that he can, eventually Batman will tire and Cap won't. War of attrition baby.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

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cf105, 2009-10-15 02:18 pm UTC

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joseph_k101, 2009-10-17 08:31 pm UTC

	damar148 2009-10-15 12:03 pm UTC (link)
	Fighting dirty is like the Dark Side. It's easyier, but not stronger. (Reply to this)

	tanetris 2009-10-15 12:23 pm UTC (link)
	First fight: Stalemate, Batman retreats. However he collects some of Cap's blood from the scene. Second fight: Batman hits Cap with a gas or injection or suchlike that undoes the supersoldier serum. Goodnight, Cap. (Reply to this) (Thread)

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chains_of_irony, 2009-10-15 12:40 pm UTC

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jmacq1, 2009-10-15 12:49 pm UTC

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tanetris, 2009-10-15 07:40 pm UTC

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jmacq1, 2009-10-16 01:53 pm UTC

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tanetris, 2009-10-15 05:30 pm UTC

volksjager
2009-10-15 01:22 pm UTC (link)

Hmm, well first what are the stakes ? If they are just sparing (like above) I can only see it lasting a short time and ending as this did. You must have the old,"heroes mistakes heroes for a villain melee ensues". They would have to mean it. I am with cap. Less baggage. Cap can fight dirty,he knows the moves and how to use it. If you will recall he once went undercover as Crossbones at one point and had to "fight like him,which means alot dirtier."

(Reply to this)

	(Anonymous) 2009-10-15 03:20 pm UTC (link)
	Eh, they're both experienced and competent fighters. I say they could fight a hundred times under the same conditions, and we'd get a different result each time. (but Cap could seriously kick Batman's ass) (Reply to this) (Thread)

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volksjager, 2009-10-16 12:03 am UTC

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proteus_lives, 2009-10-16 12:29 am UTC

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volksjager, 2009-10-16 12:44 am UTC

halloweenjack
2009-10-15 03:56 pm UTC (link)

Byrne BTC (Before The Crazy) made the argument that Cap would win because, by definition, he's the best at hand-to-hand combat, and Batman is the second-best at everything. (Possibly the World's Greatest Detective, though; point being that Bruce specializes in way more things than Steve does, without having the Super-Soldier Serum advantage physically.) I think that

volksjager has already posted the Cap-Iron Fist fight here that sort of demonstrates that.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

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jmacq1, 2009-10-15 04:13 pm UTC

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volksjager, 2009-10-16 12:00 am UTC

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proteus_lives, 2009-10-16 12:19 am UTC

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volksjager, 2009-10-16 12:46 am UTC

	runespoor7 2009-10-15 05:18 pm UTC (link)
	Batman could win the rematch, but first fight? Unless Cap has no idea he's about to get attacked and Bruce has it planned out, Cap all the way. Other than that I agree with trelas's feeling that as long as they both come out looking competent, I can see it both ways. (Reply to this)

coldsteel_lives
2009-10-15 07:21 pm UTC (link)

For what it's worth, Kurt Busiek said on the DC message boards that his original plan was for Cap to win the fight, and the higher-ups at DC signed off on this. He later changed his mind and decided that it made more sense from a story and character point of view to have Bruce and Steve figure out that they were being played and work together to find out who was behind it. Which it does, even if it left a lot of fanboys - myself included - disappointed.

(Reply to this)

Well, It's gotta be..

steverodgers5
2009-10-15 07:38 pm UTC (link)

Cap. (As if my icon wouldn't have given that away! LOL!)

Cap can supposidly bench press 800lbs, and has speed and agility in excess of any olmypic athlete. They're on a par as far as fighting ability goes,(In fact in the Bruce Wayne/Steve Rodgers fight in the Cap/Bats one shot, After Bruce has tried all sorts of exotic fighting moves on him, he figures out he's fighting Captain America because he reckons Rodgers seems to have a slight advantage, and that there would be only one man in the world who could have that..)

And then there's that shield. With it being completely indestructible, it will protect him from just about anything Bats can pull out of his belt.

Yeah, you can say the whole gas attack thing, but Steve would be fast enough, and experienced enough to see it coming, hold his breath, and smack it right out of bats hands.

Having said all this though, if Bats has sufficent prep time to prepare the environment in advance, he might take it. Or if he was real lucky and outside factors intervened..(like in that Marvel vrs DC where a convenient flash flood knocks Steve off balnce enough to be hit by a batarang to the head..)

One thing for sure though is that it would, (as Bats points out in the JLA example above,) take a VERY long time for him to go down. And in all likelihood would be the best hand to hand fight the world ever witnessed. (They're both Pros, experts in all the disciplines, and never ever give up..)I could honestly see a fight between the two of them taking up a double sized issue from start to finish. And what an issue that would be!

(Reply to this)

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