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schmevil ([info]schmevil) wrote in [info]scans_daily,
@ 2009-03-19 18:19:00

Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:admin: mod post

PAD clarification
[info]heeha_tag posted a clarification from PAD, and I'm going to relay it to all of you.

"Well, the last time I was over there it was made abundantly clear that I wasn’t welcome, so I’m not going to make the mistake of going over there and saying this. But feel free to post the following in response:

The position espoused is not remotely correct. I have EXPLICITLY said that I have no problem with “snippets.” A few panels here, a page there. Anything that remotely falls under the realm of fair use is of no concern. And the comment about wanting people to consult with me over reproducing “even small portions” of my work is, again, 180 degrees away from what I said.

What I had said was that–giving a for-instance–if people wanted to produce LARGE amounts (such as the 50% that was reproduced of X-Factor) of work to which I own the copyright (such as Fallen Angel) that they but had to approach me and we could likely work something out. Here I was trying to put forward an example of how I’d be willing to work with Scans regarding work where I have the legal option to make that call (unlike that Marvel work) and it’s being twisted and distorted to make me come across as uncooperative. I really can’t fathom it."

The ban on PAD, just so we're all clear, isn't about blaming PAD for anything. Understandably we're a bit nervous about having his work on SD, and we've received negative attention for the posts that were made after the migration. When [info]rabican and I started talking about a creator rights clause in our rules, it was both to give writers and artists an easy out, and a way to protect the community. It's not about targeting people as poor sports, or bad fans.

PAD: I do apologize for mistaking your words regarding permission to post. Some of that misunderstanding comes down to terminology. Coming from SD as I do, a snippet would be more than a panel, or a page.

The ban will stay in place for now, but this is something we should talk about as a community. I encourage you guys to share your views, but please do so civilly, and with attention to all the issues involved.



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[info]mullon
2009-03-19 05:49 pm UTC (link)
I think we should just continue to post 1/3 of an issue instead of posting 1/2 and having to go through him.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]schmevil, 2009-03-19 05:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]schmevil, 2009-03-19 05:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mullon, 2009-03-19 08:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]schmevil, 2009-03-20 07:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]raattgift, 2009-03-20 12:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]raattgift, 2009-03-20 12:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]raattgift, 2009-03-20 12:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]schmevil, 2009-03-20 07:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]raattgift, 2009-03-20 10:00 am UTC
I'm Still Leery Of Posting ANY Marvel Stuff...
[info]peur_evol
2009-03-19 05:52 pm UTC (link)
...whether it's from David or not.
And as far as working something out with him, hmmm....

maybe he's been reading Cory Doctorow's blog ?!?

*I still like DARK TOWER*

(Reply to this)


[info]jarodrussell
2009-03-19 05:54 pm UTC (link)
I'll say what I said on his blog and on mine:
"I [PAD] really can’t fathom it."

Let me see if I can offer up an explanation. In the weeks since LiveJournal shut SD down, I've been trying to think of how to keep SD from being shut down again: ways to spread the comics across the web so even if Marvel hits one host with a DMCA, it won't cripple the community. Ultimately the conclusion I came to was while it was technologically feasible to build an impervious SD, no one would actually use it. The steps required to run it, coupled with the loss of speed and ease, make it too much of a pain to use.

That's the same reason it's easier just to excise PAD comics from the conversation. You say "snippets" are fine, but what constitutes a snippet? Is that snippet per post, per year, if you post eleven pages from a comic over the course of two years, is it still a snippet? In that case, the tension from never knowing what's too much diminishes the fun of wanton posting.

Similarly, contacting you, waiting for a reply, and (hopefully) reaching a compromise are too much work for too little return. If you can't just post when the mood strikes, that kind of kills the fun of posting. No other message board requires written consent from an author, why should SD have to put up with it? (Yes, I understand the legal reasons, but I'm not talking in terms of legalities, this is strictly a usability issue.)

Personally, I like the "No PAD" rule. It slightly lessens concerns about the community being shut down for treading on an artist's rights, it's a simple rule that's both easy to follow and easy to identify as being broken, and because of the first two points, it streamlines the community. Instead of having twenty conditional requirements to decide if pages can be posted for discussion, you have one, and in the world of user interfaces, less is quite often more.

To sum everything up, this isn't a "Rar! Evil PAD!" thing, it's just fine tuning the SD for optimal performance.
Leave it in place. I think it it's better, easier to say "verboten" if there's any concern rather than to have to get written consent for a post.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]tavella, 2009-03-19 06:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tavella, 2009-03-19 06:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]suzene, 2009-03-19 07:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bluefall, 2009-03-19 07:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]surlytmpl, 2009-03-19 09:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rayerai, 2009-03-19 11:39 pm UTC
What you said. - [info]jazzypom, 2009-03-22 01:44 pm UTC

[info]ashtoreth
2009-03-19 05:56 pm UTC (link)
Marvel doesn't care about the ancient stuff. And I would like to post even a panel or two from Death of Jean DeWolff. It's a pivotal part of Spiderman/Daredevil's relationship.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]scottyquick, 2009-03-19 06:51 pm UTC
reposted for clarity - [info]felinephoenix, 2009-03-19 07:41 pm UTC

[info]thandrak
2009-03-19 06:11 pm UTC (link)
Screw 'im. Sure, whatever we do may not help sales on Avengers... but, you know, I bet we cranked a few hundred copies of Fallen Angel the time someone posted it.

Let it fall into obscurity. Let X-Factor writhe on the vine. He chose to start a fight, he knew what would happen, let him face the results. Fandom has decently long memories.

Let's see what happens.

(Reply to this)


[info]kamino_neko
2009-03-19 06:43 pm UTC (link)
PAD ban, no PAD ban, I don't care...

I just want this crap over with, to stop dominating the community. To which end, I say, screw discussion, leave the ban in place, and move on.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ceru, 2009-03-20 10:11 am UTC

[info]bluefall
2009-03-19 07:10 pm UTC (link)
Totally unrelated, but seems as good a place to mention it as any:

I may have found a hint toward a solution to our RSS problem. (IE the one where porn and Wondy megaposts don't cut properly through the RSS and force people still watching from LJ to drop the feed.)

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]foxhack, 2009-03-19 09:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tavella, 2009-03-19 10:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]foxhack, 2009-03-20 01:49 am UTC

[info]skywaterblue
2009-03-19 07:11 pm UTC (link)
I support a complete Peter David ban. Like someone up thread said, it's not worth running the community if we're always going to be worried about his trigger-finger mood for the comm's survival.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]skybard, 2009-03-20 05:06 am UTC

[info]saralakali
2009-03-19 07:15 pm UTC (link)
I'm perfectly fine with the ban on his work. This whole mess has totally screwed with my peace of mind, to the point where seeing his name or initials makes me sick to my stomach. I am that stressed by it.

Mind you, I never posted any scans on s_d or anywhere else, so theoretically I should have nothing to fear from the man. But I still have nightmares in which he breaks into my house, takes away boxes of my comics and laughs at my efforts to stop him.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]surlytmpl, 2009-03-19 09:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]saralakali, 2009-03-20 08:10 am UTC
Yeah, leave the ban in place...
[info]ashez2ashes
2009-03-19 07:26 pm UTC (link)
I think its best to leave the ban in place, and then not mention it for a very very long time. Mentioning it is like we're picking at a almost healed scab, ya know?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Yeah, leave the ban in place... - [info]kamino_neko, 2009-03-19 07:28 pm UTC

[info]icon_uk
2009-03-19 07:31 pm UTC (link)
I'd say keeping the ban in place, other than the odd panel or two if required for context in a post, is the easiest option for all concerned.

By the same token, I'd be keen on less badmouthing of PAD in general. Disagreeing with his position is one thing, but things have gotten toxic at times, and that doesn't sit well with me.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]zegim, 2009-03-19 08:24 pm UTC

[info]queenanthai
2009-03-19 07:34 pm UTC (link)
I'm aware of the harsh feelings everyone has towards Peter David at the moment, but I still like his comics. And I like seeing what happens to the characters. Don't you guys want to find out what happens to, for example, the X-FACTOR crew, regardless of the writer?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]kamino_neko, 2009-03-19 07:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ex_menagerie993, 2009-03-19 08:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mr_terrific, 2009-03-19 08:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]timemonkey, 2009-03-19 08:30 pm UTC

[info]werehawk
2009-03-19 07:38 pm UTC (link)
Regardless of what he says NOW, no PAD and we have one less thing to worry about.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ex_menagerie993, 2009-03-19 08:19 pm UTC

[info]shadwing
2009-03-19 08:00 pm UTC (link)
I say keep the PAD Ban, he's not being exactly reasonable and per his previous conduct on the net over the past decade, he loves his conflict and drama...the fact he's still HARPING on this shows that he wants us to kick up a fuss.

So yeah...no PAD on the com and ignore any of his rants is fine with me

(Reply to this)


[info]sistermagpie
2009-03-19 08:03 pm UTC (link)
I'm fine with keeping the ban. It seems easier just to be safe.

(Reply to this)


[info]mr_terrific
2009-03-19 08:03 pm UTC (link)
Frankly, I'd hoped he'd have the sense to stay out of here and stop picking at the scab, as someone said. Obviously not.

Guys, let's face facts here--PAD Ban or no, all it takes is one person posting too much of any Marvel comic and he could just as easily report us for that as well as his own stuff.

Keep that in mind for the future.

(Reply to this)


[info]suzene
2009-03-19 08:19 pm UTC (link)
Actually, one more reason I'd like like to see the PAD ban kept in place is that I think accommodating creators on the specifics we are and aren't allowed to post just seems like a huge headache waiting to happen. It's easy to keep a list of writers and artists who aren't comfortable with our rules and would like us to not post their work. It's considerably harder to police "Writer/artist X only allows us to post one page per issue of his work and only if it's more than five months old and only if we don't post on Sundays."

(Reply to this)


[info]timemonkey
2009-03-19 08:34 pm UTC (link)
I don' really care one way or the other. All we have to do to avoid problems is to just not go overboard with posting comic pages, it's not hard.


Hell, we've had perfectly good fun discussing single pages and even panels. And to be honest, I was getting a little sick of have ing to waid through entire stories to get to the fun/important parts.

If you want to post something, post it, no need for everything around it as well.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]bluefall, 2009-03-19 09:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]timemonkey, 2009-03-19 09:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]parsimonia, 2009-03-19 11:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]parsimonia, 2009-03-19 11:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]raattgift, 2009-03-20 12:43 am UTC

[info]foxhack
2009-03-19 09:36 pm UTC (link)
Ban PAD's stuff. Maybe he'll leave us to our own devices if we just stop posting about his stuff.

(Reply to this)


[info]cmdr_zoom
2009-03-20 12:15 am UTC (link)
I mostly just find the whole thing rather sad, especially since it comes from a creator whose work I used to enjoy a great deal. (My change of opinion is more due to my dissatisfaction with more recent output than "the late unpleasantness.")

I also think that trying to control discussion and spoilers, or relying on "surprise" twists as a storytelling device, is a fool's errand in this day and age. And finally, I can't help but wonder if Mr. David allows his opinion of other venues, such as conventions, to be wholly defined or unreasonably influenced by his encounters with the inevitable disagreeable few rather than the vast greater number of temperate, appreciative fans.

(Reply to this)


[info]pepperspray101
2009-03-20 03:19 am UTC (link)
Keep the ban and I'm with whoever said we should just ban Marvel stuff that's currently in print. Old stuff, they shouldn't care too much about, but the new stuff? Yeah, let's not risk the community for that company. No thanks! Never been interested, can't say that I'm interested in Marvel now.

(Reply to this)


[info]angelophile
2009-03-20 06:19 am UTC (link)
I'd be quite happy not to read his stuff here again. I don't think it's worth getting into with him and a simple ban of his work is the most straightforward solution. I think contacting Marvel or DC's legal team before posting extracts of his older work is unworkable, so fair enough.

Although if anyone really wanted to contact him direct about posting his own copyrighted work and work out an agreement with him, then I don't see any reason why not.

(Reply to this)


[info]ceru
2009-03-20 10:16 am UTC (link)
I say leave the ban in place. It sidesteps the apparently ridiculously complicated issue of exactly what he wants from us or how he feels about us, allowing me to go back to the relaxing state of not giving a shit about PAD and his tender sensibilities. There's a universe of good comics out there not written by PAD.


(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]angelophile, 2009-03-20 11:30 am UTC

[info]idreading
2009-03-20 03:00 pm UTC (link)
I think we should start f-locking all posts.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]angelophile, 2009-03-20 03:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]gwalla.livejournal.com, 2009-03-21 11:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]drsevarius, 2009-03-20 07:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]schmevil, 2009-03-20 07:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]drsevarius, 2009-03-20 08:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]schmevil, 2009-03-20 09:58 pm UTC
hi scans_daily@twitter: if you are with Marvel, thank you for another equitable defense - [info]raattgift, 2009-03-22 11:31 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2009-03-20 03:16 pm UTC (link)
After repeatedly referring to the entire community as criminals a month ago, I'd say leave the ban in place.

(Reply to this)


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