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arbre_rieur (arbre_rieur) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-10-02 16:29:00

Entry tags:

creator: kevin smith, publisher: dc comics, title: batman the widening gyre

A touch of Vertigo in the DC Universe
These days, the barrier between Karen Berger's Vertigo and Dan DiDio's DC Universe seems to be impenetrable. Characters from one side of the tracks don't pop up wandering the other, period. Every once in a while, though, someone surprising manages to sneak through.

Ever hear Matt Wagner's story about how he got away with including bits of DC Universe in his Madame Xanadu series for Vertigo? Every time he includes one in his script, his editor tells him that he needs to ask for the OK from the higher-ups. Wagner goes and asks, and permission is denied. He tells his editor that it's been okayed and he has permission. The editor allows it in. When the issue is published, nobody notices his transgression.

(Post a new comment)

	taggerung301 2009-10-03 12:14 am UTC (link)
	sooo . . . who does Batman see? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	omgwtflolbbqbye 2009-10-03 12:41 am UTC (link)
	Damien? (Reply to this) (Parent)

	(Anonymous) 2009-10-03 05:29 am UTC (link)
	Smith's new superhero, a guy called Baphomet with a goat mask. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	suigetsuxsasuke 2009-10-03 12:19 am UTC (link)
	So...is that the pedo guy from the Serial killer's convention? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	cricharddavies 2009-10-03 01:20 am UTC (link)
	Sure looks like him. And the situation fits his described MO. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	icon_uk 2009-10-03 12:24 am UTC (link)
	This was sort of discussed already here when the preview came out. (Reply to this)

	icon_uk 2009-10-03 12:26 am UTC (link)
	Also have to say, that that doesn't impress me about Wagner, it just seems disrespectful. Also, surely the editors would realise they're being played after the first time, and even then isn't it THEIR job to ask the higher ups, rather than the writers? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	cricharddavies 2009-10-03 01:22 am UTC (link)
	Disrespectful of whom? If the editorial staff can't be bothered to take care of such details, then frankly they deserve no respect. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	icon_uk 2009-10-03 12:06 pm UTC (link)
	Well, compare and contrast with Gail Simone, who sees it as a professional courtesy to ask the creator of a character, if they are still around, about using them in advance. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	aaron_bourque 2009-10-04 01:54 am UTC (link)
	I'm not up on Madame Xanadu, but isn't that kind of difficult with DC characters? (Reply to this) (Parent)

	aaron_bourque 2009-10-03 01:24 am UTC (link)
	Also have to say, that that doesn't impress me about Wagner, it just seems disrespectful. Meh. That's what I'd do. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	daningram 2009-10-03 02:34 am UTC (link)
	Why does Wagner need permission? It was always my understanding that getting into Vertigo is easy, and getting out is hard. (Reply to this) (Parent)

daningram
2009-10-03 01:39 am UTC (link)

Ya know, I keep hearing about turf wars at DC between Vertigo and main DC, and to a certain extent I understand them. Vertigo is trying to be a step above the rest, keep a certain creative vision and tell stories of a certain quality.

But seeing that Kevin Smith, of all people is allowed to play in the sandbox when other, better writers weren't (That Captain Atom arc with Death, or Johns when he wanted to use the Sandman name in JSA) really makes me think it's less about quality and more about a stick up their ass.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

aaron_bourque
2009-10-03 02:00 am UTC (link)

But seeing that Kevin Smith, of all people is allowed to play in the sandbox when other, better writers weren't (That Captain Atom arc with Death, or Johns when he wanted to use the Sandman name in JSA) really makes me think it's less about quality and more about a stick up their ass.

Vertigo doesn't publish "comic books." They publish graphic novels.

Aaron "The Mad Whitaker" Bourque; one comic book issue at a time.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

daningram
2009-10-03 02:17 am UTC (link)

Fables isn't a graphic novel. I have a single issue of Sandman around here that ain't a graphic novel, but comic book. 100 Bullets was in comic form, as is Greek Street.

So yeah, spare me the 'It's not a cookie, it's fruit and cake!' defense. Six of one, half dozen of another. Only Vertigo writers are required to actually ace a creative writing class before hand, and keep control over their limited stable of characters.

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	darkblade 2009-10-03 02:29 am UTC (link)
	Which is why I like Marvel's MAX set up with chrodinger's Continuity compared to the DC/Vertigo Continuity Ghetto. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	darkblade 2009-10-03 02:30 am UTC (link)
	Schrodinger's Continuity (Reply to this) (Parent)

	aaron_bourque 2009-10-03 03:34 am UTC (link)
	Yes. And all of those will be published in trade paperback "graphic novels." Vertigo, you see, caters to pretentious douches who think that "comic books" are just for kids. That it also gets people who read comic books is accidental. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

mechanicaljewel
2009-10-03 04:10 am UTC (link)

Um. No.

Vertigo caters to a more "non-comics reader" audience, no question. But how else is the industry going to survive? Hell, my first comics were Sandman and V for Vendetta. Now I am buying Blackest Night just like the rest of fandom.

AND YET, I still adore Air and Y: the Last Man and Transmetropolitan and Preacher and-- shall I go on reminding you what other amazing comics have come out of Vertigo?

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	aaron_bourque 2009-10-03 05:23 am UTC (link)
	I think you named the good ones. That doesn't erase the attitude too many vertigo readers have that comics are for children and graphic novels are for "them." Aaron "The Mad Whitaker" Bourque; the Vertigo readers who are pretentious douches, not children. Because, I can't make that sentence clearer. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	icon_uk 2009-10-03 12:03 pm UTC (link)
	Then that's a problem with the readers, not the publisher. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	aaron_bourque 2009-10-03 07:58 pm UTC (link)
	I didn't mean to imply otherwise. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	sandoz_iscariot 2009-10-03 04:15 am UTC (link)
	Funland is such an obscure Sandman character (I mean, it's not like he's Dream or the Corinthian or anything) that I think it's more likely that none of the editors recognized him, rather than showing favoritism towards Smith. (Reply to this) (Parent)

freeman333
2009-10-03 01:50 am UTC (link)

There are things I like about Kevin Smith's writing, and things I don't like. I like how he's always willing to be hard-core real, and not gloss over ugly things, even in superhero comics. I don't like how he writes Batman's inner monologue.

I'm sorry, but "bloated turd"? No way fuckin' Batman says that even in his own mind. Batman is many things but he is not an angry second-grader. Kevin, I'm sorry if you have trouble respecting overweight people (especially considering you've probably been on the receiving end of plenty of weight-related disrespect yourself at one point or another). I'm sorry if you think using words related to excrement is clever or impactful. Those are your problems. Batman has problems, but he does not have those problems. Please keep these facts clear in your mind next time you write a Batman script. Thank you.

Also, I'm beginning to think Smith intentionally inserts something from Sandman into every mainstream DC book he writes. I know he did in Green Arrow; and I'm inclined to think there was something in Batman: Cacophony as well. Anyone able to back me up/correct me on this?

(Reply to this)

	geoffsebesta 2009-10-03 03:35 am UTC (link)
	This proves that Kevin Smith is not in the same class as Neil Gaiman. I don't even like Gaiman. It's just about craft. This comic here is awful. (Reply to this)

earthelemental
2009-10-03 11:11 am UTC (link)

I'm more concerned about the lack of Swamp Thing in the DCU.
Does anyone have scans for last month's Outsiders #22?

THE OUTSIDERS #22

Written by Peter J. Tomasi; Art by Fernando Pasarin; Cover by Tom Mandrake

"The Hunting" continues as Metamorpho, Black Lightning and Geo-force scour the globe to track down Clayface. But when tensions rise, Lighting and Geoforce will find themselves at odds over the control of the team. Plus, the Creeper and Man-Bat head down to the bayou to catch themselves a Killer Croc!
DC Universe 32pg. Color $2.99 US
On Sale September 16, 2009

And even scarier, this month's issue:

THE OUTSIDERS #23

Written by Peter J. Tomasi ; Art by Fernando Pasarin and Jay Leisten; Cover by Tom Mandrake

"The Hunting" continues as Halo, Katana and The Creeper attempt to capture Killer Croc and return him to Gotham City before more dead bodies surface in the Louisiana swamps. But when Man-Bat joins the fight, will he side with the monster or the monster-hunters?
DC Universe 32pg. Color $2.99 US
On Sale October 21, 2009

To state the obvious: Where's Swampy during all this?

If there's a big fight in Swamp Thing's marshy backyard, and he's not in it, I still want to know what happens...

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	bluefall 2009-10-03 10:46 pm UTC (link)
	I just figure he got sick of the Justice League's shit and moved to Florida. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	earthelemental 2009-10-04 02:13 am UTC (link)
	He might as well move to Florida, for all the good he's (not) doing back home in Louisiana. Maybe he's off-panel somewhere, fighting Black Lantern zombies... (Reply to this) (Parent)