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notreallyme10 ([info]notreallyme10) wrote in [info]qaf_challenges,
@ 2009-07-12 17:10:00

Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:clusterf#ck

40. Meta: Sissy Bottoms?
Title: Sissy Bottoms?
Author: [info]fansee
Theme: Opposites
Notes: My first meta. Be kind. Be very, very kind. And thank you to my beta who went with me to where this fic writer has never gone before.


To the straight world, the distinction of ‘tops and bottoms’ in a gay male relationship invariably carries with it stereotypical attitudes of male and female roles. All of us fic whores have read fics where Justin is Brian's little woman, where he cooks for Brian and does the dishes and even may be the chief caretaker of their children. If we write, we may have contributed to this stereotype, whether unthinkingly or purposefully.

How much of this is sloppy thinking on our part and to what extent are we set up by CowLip? I would like to posit that, while sloppy thinking can never be ruled out in any situation, CowLip has feminized Justin, Michael, and – to a lesser extent - Emmett, if only by having all three of them bottom for their partners almost 100% of the time. Fic writers – almost entirely women – are apt to extend that characterization to the characters' other areas of activity.
Let us look at the characteristics CowLip has endowed these three men with, starting with Justin and comparing his characteristics with Brian's:

• Emotional Development: Justin is young, naïve, and inexperienced – 17 to Brian's 29 when they first meet. This reflects what we have come to expect in a romantic pairing…that the woman will be younger than the man. Our expectation is rooted in reality. In every year since 1890, the median age of a woman getting married for the first time has been younger than her partner's. Brian and Justin's age difference is, of course, far greater than even the four-year difference recorded in the 1890's. However, the difference is still one that we see around us daily. So…Justin is Brian's bride.

• Physique: Justin is physically shorter, smaller, and weaker than Brian.

• Appearance:: He is blond. Being blond comes with a lot of freight, all of it feminine. "Gentlemen prefer blondes." "Dumb blonde." "Blondes have more fun." Brian, on the other hand, is dark-haired. Even his coloring is darker than Justin's pale, delicate skin.

• Accomplishments: Brian is a college graduate with a successful, professional career. Justin is still a student who, when he is employed, either has a dead-end job (waiting tables in a diner) or chooses a field (the arts) where success is not measured monetarily (unlike Brian's 'real' job where success is certainly measurable and measured). CowLip does not have Justin attend Dartmouth, study business, and enter a field where he might end up competing head-to-head with Brian.

• Bottom or Top? With one exception, Justin always bottoms for Brian. However, Justin does somewhat escape the stereotype because we see him topping his tricks. He is, as he tells Brian in Episode 1, "versatile." He also shows, in Season 4, just how bossy a bottom can be.
How do those same characteristics fit the Michael/Ben duo?

• Emotional Development: Although Michael and Ben are probably about the same age, Michael is far more naïve and childlike than Ben. Despite being over 30 when he meets Ben, emotionally he is still an adolescent. His world is bounded by the two people who are critically important to him: his mother and Brian.

• Physique: Michael is physically shorter, smaller, and weaker than Ben. Of course, in this case, so is most of Pittsburgh. Tellingly, however, Brian too is bigger than Michael.

• Appearance: While coloring is an important factor in making Justin seem feminine, it does not come into play with Michael. He is dark-haired and olive-complected which, combined with his muscular body, give him a more rugged appearance than Justin's. (It is perhaps worth noting, however, that he has an outstanding ass, which I also associate with bottoming and feminization.)

• Accomplishments: Until Michael is able to buy the comic book shop – with Brian's coaching - he was working in retail, a dead-end job that predominately employs women. Ben, on the other hand, is a Ph. D., teaching in a major university, probably in a tenure track position. Michael's ownership of a business puts him on a more equal footing with Ben, but there is still a disparity in their achievements.

• Bottom or Top? Michael always bottoms.

Emmett is more difficult to categorize. Over the five seasons, he partnered with three very different men: George Schickel, Ted, and Drew Boyd. Despite these relationships, he managed to spend much of the five seasons making the most of being unattached. Although Emmett was a dedicated bottom, his character went a long way towards redeeming CowLips' clichéd version of the bottom as represented by Justin and Michael.

• Emotional Development: From the very beginning, Emmett is perhaps the most emotionally mature to the five friends. He is gay and he embraces it, with the exception of the short period of time where he is trying to "see the light." Otherwise, his light always shines brightly and unashamedly, as his wardrobe proclaims.

• Physique: Again Emmett goes against CowLip's stereotype of a bottom. Emmett is tall – as tall as Brian – and well-built.

• Appearance: When Emmett is dressed conservatively, as he is when he visits Brian at work in Season 3, to plead for help for Ted, there is nothing about his appearance that telegraphs, "Bottom." (Contrast that with Michael and Justin's trip to the Chinese medicine store, where the couple behind the counter immediately identify them both as bottoms.) However, he frequently dresses provocatively, especially when clubbing, and his gestures and tone-of-voice is often exaggeratedly swish. His character can sometimes be a compendium of clichés about gay men.

• Accomplishments: In the beginning of the series, Emmett is another man in a dead-end job, selling clothes in a boutique. He is trapped in a low level job because he lacks education and training. Over the course of five years, he moves up in the world and, like Michael, becomes an entrepreneur as he establishes his event-planning business.

• Bottom or Top? Emmett is an enthusiastic bottom who celebrates his own promiscuity as much as does that quintessential top, Brian. For instance, when he is looking for a roommate, one of his requirements is that the candidate must be a 'brutal top,' and he auditions for that ability.

When CowLip cast the Justin and Michael characters with actors who are smaller and less muscular than their partners, they made tangible the popular impression that a gay man who bottoms is more feminine, more sissy, than a man who tops, not only in the bedroom but outside it. In Season 1 particularly, this impression is reinforced by Justin's youth and Michael's immaturity. Even though both grow and change and become more adult over the next five years, their physiques continue to telegraph that they are somehow less masculine than Brian and Ben.

Fortunately, Emmett's character and appearance act as a healthy antidote to this convention. Any feminine characteristics Emmett exhibits are voluntarily assumed, and he can and does put them aside when they are inappropriate. Emmett remains, however, a peripheral character, while Justin is one of the central pair around whom the others revolve. As such, how his character is portrayed carries far more weight than do Michael's and Emmett's characterizations. His physical appearance, combined with his youth and initial naivete, do create the impression that being a bottom equates to assuming a feminine role – yes, we fic writers have been set up by CowLip! It is up to us to see beyond what happens in bed and to portray Justin as a young man, still growing into adulthood, not as a pseudo-girl.



(Post a new comment)


[info]vl_redreign
2009-07-13 06:25 am UTC (link)
Well said.

I, however, has to disagree with one thing: Michael's ass is nice, but not outstanding. lol

There is one thing about Justin that also puts him a bit above Michael and Emmett: where they are both older, Justin is definitely more intelligent. I don't know how naive I'd call him, either. He did exhibit those thing sthat mark a teenager-spoiled, self-centered, bratty. And yet, like Emmett, Justin is also one of the most self-actualized men in the group. Once he comes out, he never tries to hide who and what he is. But yes, I agree that many try to feminize him, whether consciously or unconsciously.

A very interesting aside, and possibly relevant to this. Justin's British counterpart, Nathan, is quite tall, taller than Stuart, Brian's avatar. Kind of changes the dynamic of the argument...although even with his height, Nathan was quite pale and "pretty." Stuart had "short people syndrome." lol

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Sissy Bottoms
[info]fansee
2009-07-21 07:14 pm UTC (link)
The naive Justin I refer to is, of course, the Justin of S1. The bashing and his Pink Posse episode cure him of any lingering naivete.

And yet, like Emmett, Justin is also one of the most self-actualized men in the group. Once he comes out, he never tries to hide who and what he is.

Agreed. And I also agree that Nathan's height changes the dynamic - taller children/teenagers are often perceived as mature. When I traveled with my 16-year-old grandson, he was always, without exception, thought to be in college, despite the fact that he had yet to shave that baby face sitting atop his 6'5" frame.

How differently would the story have played out if the man cast as Justin had been 6' tall and baby-faced? One wonders.

Have you ever read "Teacher"? The writer has put together an interesting scenario where Justin is 12 years older than Brian. She kept the relationship in character and made it work, so maybe a tall-but-young Justin would work too. Dunno. FanSee

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]ahaw9913
2009-07-13 03:57 pm UTC (link)
Many points well made.

And overall, I agree with your general premise and conclusions that we are led to think of Justin and Michael as the more "feminine" in their respective parings. However, I suggest that the bottoming thing is not quite so black and white.

We only SEE Justin top Brian once, and I understand that canon is canon, but are we to believe that this is the only time? I mean they fight over it during the pink posse arc, so it has come up again since 214.

And with Michael we do know that he is not a complete bottom. Debbie announces this to everyone at the diner in 208(I think)after she reads in in his online profile. And we know that Ben bottoms, because he did for Brian as he describes to Michael in 212. So, if Michael sometimes tops with others, and Ben sometimes bottoms with others(And Ben likes to get tied up, too!), I think we can extrapolate that they do with each other sometimes too.

Now granted, in the scenes that we actually see, the disparity between who's topping and who's bottoming is huge.


Emmett

Although Emmett was a dedicated bottom, his character went a long way towards redeeming CowLips' clichéd version of the bottom as represented by Justin and Michael.

ITA! And isn't it ironic that the self-proclaimed sissy bottom and walking gay stereotype (the one we see openly mocked by other adult characters) ends up being one of the most self-loving, well-adjusted and most loved of all the characters!

Great meta!

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Sissy Bottoms
[info]fansee
2009-07-21 08:06 pm UTC (link)
We only SEE Justin top Brian once, and I understand that canon is canon, but are we to believe that this is the only time? I mean they fight over it during the pink posse arc, so it has come up again since 214.

In general, I take the position that one cannot take extra-canonical comments as proof, but...CowLip have said they are sorry they showed Justin topping even once, that Brian never bottoms...unlikely though that is.

Having violated my own principals, I'm willing to leave that to one side and agree that in all likelihood, in five years of frequent sex, it boggles the mind that Brian and Justin wouldn't have switched positions more than is shown on screen. As I also said, we see Justin topping other guys more than once. Nevertheless, that doesn't negate the impression that his size and prettiness create: that he is less masculine than Brian and can be shown acting in less masculine ways.

And with Michael we do know that he is not a complete bottom. Debbie announces this to everyone at the diner in 208(I think)after she reads in in his online profile.

That's Debbie speaking, and she's defending her boy. Why? Because bottoming is somehow less than manly?

And we know that Ben bottoms, because he did for Brian....

Yep. Which of course reinforces the stereotype that Brian doesn't bottom for anybody.

I think we can extrapolate that they do with each other sometimes too.

I agree, but we don't see it. What we see is the little guy bottoming.

And isn't it ironic that the self-proclaimed sissy bottom and walking gay stereotype (the one we see openly mocked by other adult characters) ends up being one of the most self-loving, well-adjusted and most loved of all the characters!

In fact, CowLip went a long way toward redeeming themselves when they cast Peter Paige as Emmett. Anything Emmett did was because he chose to do. Anatomy was not destiny for Emmett. FanSee

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]outlander
2009-07-13 04:50 pm UTC (link)
Your first meta? Way to go!!!

I would say you did a great job. This was really interesting to read, you made a lot of great points with everything very well said.

You gave me a lot to think about. I can't wait to see where the discussion goes!

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Sissy Bottom
[info]fansee
2009-07-21 08:11 pm UTC (link)
I would say you did a great job. This was really interesting to read, you made a lot of great points with everything very well said.

Omigosh, thank you SO much.

I can't wait to see where the discussion goes!

True confession: I am really really bad at sustained argument, which is one reason I've held back from writing meta. FanSee


(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]butternutsquash
2009-07-13 07:47 pm UTC (link)
Interesting read and I am looking forward to the discussion. I've always been fascinated by the idea- seemingly upheld by QAF- that you can tell whether someone is a bottom or a top just by looking at him. Intrinsically, that just seems wrong to me, not that I have come across any data either way.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Sissy Bottom
[info]fansee
2009-07-21 08:16 pm UTC (link)
always been fascinated by the idea - seemingly upheld by QAF - that you can tell whether someone is a bottom or a top just by looking at him.

Nor do I look at the guys I know who are gay and see an H for Homosexual stamped on their forehead. I wouldn't begin to try and guess if they bottom or top or both. As a fictional construct, however, I guess I can suspend my disbelief, not least because the scene in the Chinese herb store is laugh-out-loud funny. FanSee, who is apparently arguing against herself now.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]qafmaniac
2009-07-14 01:12 pm UTC (link)
Great meta and I can't wait to read the discussion after the reveal.;)

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Sissy Bottoms
[info]fansee
2009-07-23 01:05 am UTC (link)
Thanks for reading and commenting. I was afraid no one would be interested. FanSee

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]noteverything
2009-07-14 02:57 pm UTC (link)
One thing that I never thought about any of the men on Queer as Folk is that they were effeminate. I suppose that seems a bit odd, maybe even naive, but who is taller or shorter, or stronger or weaker -- physical sort of attributes -- don't come into play when I watch the show. I don't think of Brian as teh "boss" in his relationship with Justin or that Ben is the "man" and Michael is the "woman" because Ben has more muscles. They all seem "manly" to me.

Yet, I also like certain fics that have Justin in drag, so I can't say I don't buy into the pseudo-girl thing at all. I always thought of that as an aside, though, a sexual thing, not that Justin is a girly-boy and really *wants* to be the "female" in a relationship.

Interesting topic...thanks for sharing your thoughts.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Sissy Bottoms
[info]fansee
2009-07-23 01:14 am UTC (link)
I don't think of Brian as teh "boss" in his relationship with Justin or that Ben is the "man" and Michael is the "woman" because Ben has more muscles. They all seem "manly" to me.

As they should.

Yet, I also like certain fics that have Justin in drag, so I can't say I don't buy into the pseudo-girl thing at all.

Huh. Interesting. I've never read a fic where Justin was in drag...I guess I need to read more!

Thanks for commenting - much appreciated. FanSee


(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: Sissy Bottoms
[info]noteverything
2009-07-25 03:33 am UTC (link)
If you're at all interested in Justin in drag, I can point the way to a thing or two...

I thought of this meta today when I read a story that had Justin topping. I thought it was well-done and realistic and Brian *definitely* liked it in the story, which we never saw any indication of in canon. I think it helped me see your point, that Justin really was relegated to a "feminine" role on the show, which seems ridiculous in a lot of ways. I still don't think of him that way, but it does seem that we were intended to.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]circadia
2009-07-14 08:53 pm UTC (link)
Some interesting observations, thanks for sharing! It seems like this is already getting some discussion done, nicely done! :)

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Sissy Bottoms
[info]fansee
2009-07-23 01:17 am UTC (link)
Thank you for reading - I was afraid nobody would! ♥ ♥ ♥

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]jule1122
2009-07-15 12:11 am UTC (link)
Really interesting and well thought out meta. As a writer the lack of scenes with Justin (or Michael) topping makes writing those scenes more difficult because even if as the author we assume they are common place and try to treat them as such, their rarity in canon draws attention to them. It would have been nice to see more variety on the show.

And I have to admit this made me laugh out loud:
Michael is physically shorter, smaller, and weaker than Ben. Of course, in this case, so is most of Pittsburgh.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Sissy Bottoms
[info]fansee
2009-07-23 01:22 am UTC (link)
As a writer the lack of scenes with Justin (or Michael) topping makes writing those scenes more difficult because even if as the author we assume they are common place and try to treat them as such, their rarity in canon draws attention to them. It would have been nice to see more variety on the show.

I agree. I think that the way this was handled on the show...by making it such an exception...helped strengthen the stereotype of macho studs not bottoming. Bleeach. FanSee

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]minuet9
2009-07-16 02:43 pm UTC (link)
Very intereating meta, well done :)
A few laughs and some very thought provoking points. Thank you

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Sissy Bottoms
[info]fansee
2009-07-23 01:24 am UTC (link)
Awww, thanks for reading. Much appreciated. ♥ ♥ ♥

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]ex_4cupcakes771
2009-07-18 06:28 am UTC (link)
Very interesting meta.

This made me LMAO:

Michael is physically shorter, smaller, and weaker than Ben. Of course, in this case, so is most of Pittsburgh.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Sissy Bottoms
[info]fansee
2009-07-23 01:28 am UTC (link)
This made me LMAO:
Michael is physically shorter, smaller, and weaker than Ben. Of course, in this case, so is most of Pittsburgh.


I found it hard to fault CowLip for not finding someone bigger and brawnier than Ben to partner with him. I mean...really!

Thanks for reading and commenting. FanSee

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]testdog65
2009-07-20 01:33 am UTC (link)
It is up to us to see beyond what happens in bed and to portray Justin as a young man, still growing into adulthood, not as a pseudo-girl.

Absolutely! This was a thorough, well-considered and thought-provoking analysis. Congratulations on your first meta!

I so often have seen fics in which Justin is feminized. I'd never thought about it in the terms you've laid out here, but this really does help explain why some writers might go in that direction. Ah, the dangers of not looking beyond the surface! Thank you for this.

~Ellen

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Sissy Bottoms
[info]fansee
2009-07-23 01:35 am UTC (link)
I'm glad my piece worked for you. I love to analyze, hate to conclude, but in this case I'd been thinking about the topic for quite a while, so the concluding was less painful than usual.

Thanks for commenting...and even more thanks for reformatting the *expletive!deleted* file. Hugs, FanSee

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]simplystars
2009-07-20 11:34 pm UTC (link)
What a fascinating read... I especially liked that you delved into Emmett's characterization, too, and not just B/J and B/M. :) Thanks for the thinky thoughts!

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Sissy Bottoms
[info]fansee
2009-07-23 01:38 am UTC (link)
thinky thoughts!! I love it. I'll probably use it, too, without attribution, cos that's the kind of low life I am. ♥ ♥ ♥

I love your icon, too. FanSee

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]notreallyme10
2009-07-26 06:37 pm UTC (link)
This is so interesting... and you have pointed out a lot of stuff that I never noticed or put together. I'm not sure I had ever given any thought to the fact that both Justin and Michael are physically smaller than their partners.

It is interesting to consider why Cowlip made the choices they did because they certainly seem to have played into a few stereotypes. That said I feel that in the end they gave us well rounded characters in spite of some of these choices. When I read a fic where Justin is turned into a girl or the wife I find it lazy on the part of the author because they are ignoring parts of the character we are given.

This was fascinating! Great job!

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Sissy Bottoms
[info]fansee
2009-08-02 01:56 am UTC (link)
I know that I work extra hard at keeping Justin a guy when I write him and that I sometimes feel myself slipping. On the other hand, I once saw a clip of Randy, done on the fly, where he described himself as 'sissy.' That kinda undermines my argument, but then I feel I should ignore off-film comments...shouldn't I?

I appreciate the comment. Thanks muchly. FanSee

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: Sissy Bottoms
[info]notreallyme10
2009-08-02 02:09 am UTC (link)
It's been days since I read this and it has been on my mind ever since... a very interesting topic. I know I have more to say about it... I just haven't figured out what yet :)

I've never read anything of yours where I thought you had turned Justin into a woman. But I think it is great that you know that is something you could slip into and watch for it. It can be so easy to slip into some of those bad habits (for lack of a better term) and it is great when an author pays attention to that and avoids it.

(Reply to this) (Parent)



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