: Thursday, June 25, 2009
- green: on triggers and warnings - I am mad as hell over some people saying that impertinence is a "professional victim" or an attention whore. What she did and continues to do is incredibly brave and powerful. That goes for everyone else who has spoken up and said 'hey, I'm a survivor, and here is how you are hurting me'. -
- wistfuljane: Stating the obvious, or, what is Warnings Debate '09 about? - It's about providing many PTSD survivors, but most importantly sexual abuse survivors, a tool (i.e. warnings for common, known triggers such as rape) to navigate fandom safely without depending upon a third party -
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impertinence: Oh my god, okay. Here's the thing. - Disagree with me all you like. That is okay! I'm not so much of a n00b that I think this discussion's never happened before and will never happen again. But please do not just dismiss entire arguments wholesale because you want to be able to feel cynical and blase and anything but earnest like those overly sensitive rape victims. -- ciderpress: - Where we go from there and how lables/tags/warnings/metadata might be applied to squicks and dislikes? That's something else, that's to do with another group of people (like me! I don't like deathfic! I appreciate it when headers let me in advance! Although, no, I'm not triggered and no, it doesn't stop me from functioning and no, I don't demand it from you, the writer.) and I strongly do not agree that this is a question, a hoop that survivors who are raising awareness and petitioning fandom for consideration and understanding should have to jump through before they are heard. -
- vito_excalibur: warnings - "But I don't wanna put warnings on my stories! Why don't you just get your friends to read all the fic you're interested in first and vet it for you?";//Sure, you can totally see that, right? Every time you feel like reading some fic - which is how often? Be honest, now - you don't have to tell me, but just between you - you, you'd be posting this how many times a week? -
- misscam: To warn or not to warn, that creates the wanky comments - I expect you to warn if your fic contains rape or consent issues. If you were unaware your fic came across that way and enough people tell you why it did, I expect you to add warnings. -
- jetamors: Warnings!wank, and the post I didn't make about Racefail - If someone says "I'm triggered by non-con, please warn in some way so that I can protect myself," the correct response to that is not "Nah, I'm not convinced that I should warn, you'll have to persuade me." -
- natsuko1978: The Warnings Debate (NB includes non-graphic discussion of things that should be warned for) - What gets me is that if a writer is putting a character through a rape, or PTSD, or a disabilty, or the death of their SO, and is working with that character's feelings and reactions to and about the situation, how can the writer fail to see that some readers may be adversely affected? -
- blindingsight: untitled - If you are an author you have the responsibility to tell your audience what your fic is about. This includes adding Warnings for potentially triggering material. I don't care if you think it's going to spoil your story. -
- ignaz: I can't think of one - One of the best things fandom has taught me is when to speak up and when to sit down and listen (or get up and walk away, as the case may be). -
- oliviacirce: On Being A Village Elder: An Essay On Community Responsibility - Any community is as chaotic as the people who make it up, and fandom is certainly no exception. The fact that a larger fandom community does exist, however, is evidenced by the term itself: that we say we are "in fandom" -
- carmarthen: Warnings and labels, oh my! - Probably not going to have time to redo website until next year, but how do you choose to label and warn? What kinds of warnings or lack of warnings bug you as a reader? -
- robling_t: *tap, tap* is this thing on...? - Is it just me, or has it been ten years since anything new has managed to break out to the level of becoming part of the collective consciousness? -
- librarianstales: Triggers and Warnings and Community Standards - Not being a good host may give you a reputation that you don't want, much like the recent drama. Either change your own personal policies of warnings on your lj, select your flist carefully or just make peace with the fact that a lot of people won't be coming around anymore -
- lcsbanana: This is not okay. - I've only ever once before made a post intended to publicly call someone out for their behaviour, several years ago. I certainly never thought I would be doing it about other fans, but apparently I have to. -
- azurejay: i'm a loose bolt of a complete machine. - If that means you, as a writer, have to give up a little control over your reader(s)--or you, as a reader, have to give up a little of the element of surprise--so be it. -
- secondsilk: On warnings part I - Labelling give us an optimistic outlook on fandom, not labelling gives us a pessimistic one. -
- chasingtides: This Isn't Just An Internet Problem - When you tell a survivor that s/he should just shut up and deal with it, you are acting along with the rest of the culture that silence survivors. You are speaking alongside all of the people who have told us it is inappropriate for us to talk about what happened to us. When you tell a survivor that the survivor wanted to be a victim, chose to be a victim, or was asking for it somehow, you are standing among many who speak for the victim-blaming culture -
- such_heights: a little warning would be nice - So I'm trying to get my head around the idea that there's a big difference between saying "hey, this uncut post is super spoilery for people who haven't seen last night's episode yet, you should cut it" and "hey, this story might be very triggery for survivors of sexual violence, you should warn for that". Adding the warnings is about the same amount of effort in both cases, and wow, the second kind of sounds like the one more worth avoiding. -
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tejas: The Warnings Thing - What I really can't see the sense in is *not* using the warnings that are standard for the specific fandom. The usual reason I see given is that "it would ruin the story". I gotta say, if that will ruin the story, maybe the story isn't all it's cracked up to be. -
- ineptshieldmaid: Fandom: coming up with new and interesting varieties of wank each week - I like the idea that I can decide, on the day, whether I want to read dub-con, and that I can weigh it against things like how much I like the author or the prompt or the pairing. -
- lerah99: Warnings and Fandom - Personally, I am a fan of warnings. -
- helgatwb: Random thoughts, again. - I know there is no way to warn for every trigger, but there are some things which are common triggers that affect a lot of people. Warn for them. -
- antennapedia: This is all procrastination from writing, you realize. Somebody should kick me. - Story headers aren't about spoiling the content; they're about reader strategies. -
- eyebrowofdoom: Bite my privileged speaking position - As far as I can tell, virtually no one on the "warnings non-compulsory" side has argued that no one need ever warn for anything. As far as I call tell, virtually no one on the "warnings compulsory" side has argued that is necessary to warn for everything that could upset anyone anywhere in existence. -
- telesilla: Fandom as a Safe Space? Depends on who you are. - I'm also in favor of people who know they could be triggered being aware that, while fandom is trying, people will slip up and when they do it's not out of malice. That sometimes when you have an allergy that can kill you, you need to depend on your own reading of labels and your friends' input and just in general, be a little more cautious. I believe that fandom is a community and, as with any community, everyone needs to contribute to fixing the problems that exist. -
- prozacpark: random updates/thoughts. - I also don't think slash is as gender-politics free as slashers like to think, because there's a good bit of slash that turns around and gender encodes the men so they're still playing those het gender roles. And even when it doesn't, it is still a genre that EXCLUDES women from meaningful relationships. -
- emeraldsword: untitled - What makes a space 'safe'? Who decides that the space is safe and is there a responsibility from anyone to maintain that 'safe' label? -
- ignaz: Warnings - An author who wants to post a story to the Archive must select one or more of the above seven options: one or more of four basic warnings, one of two "choose not to warn" options, [...]or a cheerful assurance that none of the above are applicable to the story at hand. -